Are we in the tribulation

[BodhisattvaStyle]

I have been following along with what is going on with Israel and Palestinians, and I started to realize something. 

Are we going through the tribulation the Bible speaks about?

I just read that the USA has now gotten involved in the fight, with an attack of our own. We have sent troops, and are gearing up to put boots on the ground in the fight.

During the presidency of Trump the world was pretty much at peace. It seemed the whole world sort of took a break for a while (about 3 and a half years). Hell, Trump was even buddy-buddy with Kim Jun Un during this time. 
No one was "fighting." The world was pretty much at peace.

Now the last three and a half years have been a shitshow for the entire world. Russia and Ukraine are at war, now Israel and Palestinians are at war, and everyone jumping into the fight. 
The whole world will be involved soon.

Is this war in the Middle East the beginning of the end? Have we just gone through the tribulation? 

The way I see it, the world had over 3 years where everyone was pretty chill (as far as fighting battles went). Now it seems we've all been through over 3 years of hell...now the world is about to be at all-out war. 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it.
I think we may have just gone through the tribulation...

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

I think we should be on alert, but we should not forget all the warnings that we have been given.

I personally believe we are looking at the harvest of the wheat and the tares, and that we are experiencing a great deception.

Regardless of how God has decided my role to be in these times, I know that there are going to be harsh times ahead. I am just glad that I have to deal with this insanity at the end of my life. I feel so sorry for the mess that our children are going to have to wade through. And so many of them just are not prepared.

[LogicalGraffiti]

The middle east has one or more conflicts going all the time.  Even during the Trump years, we had Syria (left over from Obama)  We were involved along with Russia and Iran.  Afghanistan is another one that Trump inherited.  Yemen was at war with Saudi Arabia but we weren't involved as far as I know.

What's different in the world today is that the current administration looks like they're just itching for a war. Is it the end times?  I don't know but, right now, I'm more worried about who has come (and who is still coming) across the border from the south.  We know for a fact that not all the "refugees" are Mexicans looking for a better life.

[purplemer]

The sting by the scorpion tale the vax..
The beast that is an image..  a live operating system (AI)
The image that is given a body and it knows all things..
The synagogue of Satan...
We live in an old school psyops..

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

The middle east has one or more conflicts going all the time.  Even during the Trump years, we had Syria (left over from Obama)  We were involved along with Russia and Iran.  Afghanistan is another one that Trump inherited.  Yemen was at war with Saudi Arabia but we weren't involved as far as I know.

What's different in the world today is that the current administration looks like they're just itching for a war. Is it the end times?  I don't know but, right now, I'm more worried about who has come (and who is still coming) across the border from the south.  We know for a fact that not all the "refugees" are Mexicans looking for a better life.

I am about as generous and as compassionate as they come. My family history is so diverse that my Mother calls our family a patched work quilt. But there is a reason why from the beginning of man's construction of home and and shelter, that there was always a door placed on that construction. There is a reason why man has always controlled what entered and what left their home. You don't have to be a genius to realize that there is no safety in allowing free, unimpeded entry to your home.

Those in control are far from stupid, so what is their reason for allowing unimpeded entry of so many young, battle fit, men into the country?

We aren't stupid either. We know something is not right. Let us not get tangled up in the left side and the right side, Dems or Repubs. When America falls we are all going to collapse together. Both the left and the right will be dust, and closing the door now will not stop what is coming.

I think about the movie "Red Dawn". I kept asking myself, how could our country be so easily infiltrated, and it was hilarious to me at the time to believe that Americans would be taken over so easily. After all, every home has at least one gun, right?

I look at the movie today, and I am not laughing.

We had better stop believing the lies we tell ourselves. Our government is not going to save us, no matter whom they allow into office. The militia is not coming. And your neighbor with all his weapons and stored goods, is not going to be any better off than you. The best he may be able to do, is to get himself killed early enough in the battle, so he will not suffer as much as the rest of us.

[DISRAELI]

I understand the tribulation to be the persecution of the church (Revelation ch1 v9). The collapse of the world follows on from that (ch8 onwards).

If the plague, war, famine and consequent death continue long enough, it's just possible that we might be in the Four Horsemen period of Revelation ch6, which is the short-term collapse of the world. The Beast would arrive in the recovery period, leading the way, and THEN comes the tribulation.

It's all in my ATS Revelation threads (2012) and also in my book ("Silence in Heaven", available in all good bookstores).

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

I believe there is a really good chance that we've been experiencing Tribulation for a while now and  events are going to start coming faster and closer together until it all becomes a horrible twisted nightmare. I don't go for the "7 Years" length either- that is only an interpretation that could have easily been misconstrued.  The Bible says that a thousand of our days are just one single day to the Lord so His time table (or even order of events) might not plumb up with our time table. I've been watching end time prophetic events happen for decades- but they are coming faster and closer every day, just like those infamous "birth pangs".

[Infolurker]

Not entirely complete but highlights the main chronological events believed to be accurate.

Note: Birth Pains happen before the Tribulation. Bad shit in greater frequency.

There are 3 Rapture Theories (Pre, Mid, End) so consider that a variable anytime seen in a timeline.

Ezekiel 38 war could be before or during the tribulation.

The Tribulation starts with a "Treaty Of The Many". Believed to be a big Treaty / Agreement with Israel and her neighbors.

Israel rebuilds the temple for the Antichrist to inhabit during the middle of the Tribulation.




https://www.onethingministries.net/wp/wp...ion-22.pdf

[Grace]

I have been following along with what is going on with Israel and Palestinians, and I started to realize something. 

Are we going through the tribulation the Bible speaks about?

I just read that the USA has now gotten involved in the fight, with an attack of our own. We have sent troops, and are gearing up to put boots on the ground in the fight.

During the presidency of Trump the world was pretty much at peace. It seemed the whole world sort of took a break for a while (about 3 and a half years). Hell, Trump was even buddy-buddy with Kim Jun Un during this time. 
No one was "fighting." The world was pretty much at peace.

Now the last three and a half years have been a shitshow for the entire world. Russia and Ukraine are at war, now Israel and Palestinians are at war, and everyone jumping into the fight. 
The whole world will be involved soon.

Is this war in the Middle East the beginning of the end? Have we just gone through the tribulation? 

The way I see it, the world had over 3 years where everyone was pretty chill (as far as fighting battles went). Now it seems we've all been through over 3 years of hell...now the world is about to be at all-out war. 

I'm just going to go ahead and say it.
I think we may have just gone through the tribulation...

Throughout history Christians, from ancient times to recently, have in largest part held to an Amillennial eschatology. 

The popular Hollywood eschatological position espoused by the likes of Tim Lahaye and others, while yes has periodically been espoused by individuals has also been declared heresy by almost every Christian group throughout that same history because it is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches. 

All this to say: the book of Revelation is not written literally and the Tim Lahaye Hollywood version, while great at selling books and getting the authors rich, has zero understanding of the Bible and is a deception and a twisting of Scripture itself.

The various events that popular teachers who espouse Hollywood's dispensational eschatology isn't Biblical.

No one who believes in Scriptures is sitting around waiting for the Jews to build another temple - God left that place.

The Jews don't need to return to a sacrificial system in order to "usher in" the second coming of Christ - the second coming could literally happen tomorrow, or it could tarry 10,000 years. What the Jews do or don't do is quite irrelevant to HIS return. God left that place.

We are fully in the New Covenant right now. We do not wait for any earthly fulfillment to Scripture. As Jesus said, my Kingdom is not of this world.

We don't fight for dirt and Jesus already won the war. It's DONE. Finished. Complete.

While Jesus will return one day and there will be signs to that return, anyone that has you looking to a Jewish nation in the desert is telling you to look in the wrong place for those signs, and if you're looking in the wrong place you'll completely miss the signs when they are here.

This topic is long - it's not something that can be put into a few short words on a forum. But a solid Pastor who has done in depth teachings on revelation is Pastor Voddie Baucham.

I recommend going through his teachings for the traditional Christian teachings. This will help you understand more.

Pastor Voddie Baucham is a Baptist Preacher who has recently been given the position of President of the Southern Baptist Convention. He is not some off the wall guy... It's likely you've heard of him for his stance against and teaching and speaking against cultural Marxism etc.

This has been the teaching of mainstream Christianity throughout history:









He's done a whole series of teachings on the Book of Revelation if you enjoyed the above videos.

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?c...rtby=bible

Or you can check out some books on the Amil position. One I feel that is worthy of reading is A Case for Amillennialism: Understanding The End Times by Kim Riddlebarger

If your interested ..

I understand this isn't the popular position in this day of scepticism but it absolutely has to be considered as it's the historic reading of these passages.

[BodhisattvaStyle]

Not entirely complete but highlights the main chronological events believed to be accurate.

Note: Birth Pains happen before the Tribulation. Bad shit in greater frequency.

There are 3 Rapture Theories (Pre, Mid, End) so consider that a variable anytime seen in a timeline.

Ezekiel 38 war could be before or during the tribulation.

The Tribulation starts with a "Treaty Of The Many". Believed to be a big Treaty / Agreement with Israel and her neighbors.

Israel rebuilds the temple for the Antichrist to inhabit during the middle of the Tribulation.




https://www.onethingministries.net/wp/wp...ion-22.pdf

I'd like to add to a thought that was already presented here about 'time.'

I have heards hundreds of interpretations involving the timeline in which all these events occur.

Our perception of time is also different from Gods in a sense that we have an A to Z mentality regarding time. I took a look at revelation as if all these events sort of intertwined. Not an A-Z look but imagine tye letters in the alphabet are all a single representation of the events in revelation prophecy. Now imagine throwing all the letters into the air and them landing all out of order, but still together. Our perception of time is an illusion in and of itself. So, what if all these events cannot be put into a chronological order? 

I have been in many conversations, even at a collegiate level, about end times prophecy. And I have had my mind blown over and over again by people piecing together these seemingly perfect timelines and interpretations. Tge types of timelines and interpretations that some people spend their whole lives formulating out "according to the scriptures." Brillaint works on the subject. Each one the same, but different, and each one as plausible as the next.

To say, the end isn't upon us because this has happened yet, or that hasn't happened yet is too easy.
Nothing I've learned about God, and the way he works is "easy" or that simple. It's usually a mind blowing experience to actually see how the Lord works. In my experiences it's always what I least expected. 

I think taking the approach of not being fixated on things happening in any certain chronological order is wise. Prophecy never unfolds in an A-Z 123 fashion. 
If things were to unfold in a way that was easily distinguished and recognizable then it would be too easy. I would think. 

I'm not certain we're in the tribulation or not, but it does seem we are a lot further along in that prophecy than most people would think.

[Snarl]

Probability: Remote.

---

I am just glad that I have to deal with this insanity at the end of my life. I feel so sorry for the mess that our children are going to have to wade through. And so many of them just are not prepared.

Had this exact discussion with my son-in-law earlier today.

---

anyone that has you looking to a Jewish nation in the desert is telling you to look in the wrong place for those signs, and if you're looking in the wrong place you'll completely miss the signs when they are here.

This topic is long - it's not something that can be put into a few short words on a forum.

ding ... ding ... ding ... ding ... ding .... ding ... ding

[sailorsam]

the world today is bad enough, but I think what we're seeing is NOTHING compared to *the* great tribulation.

(also, imho, the tribulation period comes after the rapture of the church.  I acknowledge difference of opinion on this.)

we're seeing things like hunger and natural disasters, but not NEARLY on the scale of what will happen.

[Schmoe]

To me, it feels like we're just nearing the event horizon of the tribulation.

[Ninurta]

I'd like to add to a thought that was already presented here about 'time.'

I have heards hundreds of interpretations involving the timeline in which all these events occur.

Our perception of time is also different from  Gods in a sense that we have an  A to Z mentality regarding time. I took a look at revelation as if all these events sort of intertwined. Not an A-Z look but imagine tye letters in the alphabet are all a single representation of the events in revelation prophecy. Now imagine throwing all the letters into the air and them landing all out of order, but still together. Our perception of time is an illusion in and of itself. So, what if all these events cannot be put into a chronological order? 

I normally don't comment in threads about Revelation or "end times". What I believe has a sever tendency to piss off modern Christians. I've seen preachers get red in the face and ball their fists up like they were about to try and whoop me for it. So I don't generally enter the discussions even in the real world. Life is too short to spend it arguing with folks over inconsequential things, so I try not to.

Therefore, I'll say a few things only once, and try to be done with it.

First, you are right about the nature of time - it's not at all like we experience it, sequentially. That's just the only way we can experience time in a mortal body.

But the subject of Revelations is even deeper and more convoluted than that. It's my understanding that Revelations is actually in seven sections, and all of those sections overlap one another, like pancakes stacked in a pile. Each one describes the same events, but from a different perspective (or from a different "level", going with the pancake analogy here) than the others. It was written that way as an "apocalypse", a "hidden work", to make it harder to tease out the actual threads. In a way, it's encrypted.

To further complicate it, Revelations was written in symbols and symbolic "code", to hide it's revelations from prying eyes who, in the first century AD, were not privy to the Christian teachings of those days. A "New Jerusalem" may not be, and is probably not, and actual physical cubic city larger than the earth flying out of the sky like a comet to obliterate what is now, physically. A "temple" may not be, and probably is not, a large cubic building on the top of Mount Moriah. The "Great Whore of Babylon" may not be, and probably is not, an actual sex worker in the Iraqi desert wastes where a great city once stood. That sort of thing.

These milennialist perspectives that try to sort out a timeline from Revelations, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel primarily, are all modern inventions. They are no older than the first half of the nineteenth century. Schofield tried to flesh them out with his Bible annotations... but what does it say at the end of revelations about that sort of activity? Tim LaHaye has certainly gone a long way in popularizing Schofield's heresy.

I believe that all of the events of revelations were fulfilled nearly 2000 years ago, and were not written for our eyes or understanding. Rather, it was written for Christians in the first century, when they actually DID go through some severe persecutions and tribulations. "This generation shall not pass..."

I believe Jesus when he said the Kingdom is spiritual, not "of this world". if that is the case, if he was not lying, then of what possible use would an Earthy Millennial reign be to him? It would be an abdication of his throne in the spiritual Kingdom.

I believe that Kingdom was instituted 2000 years ago with the words "It is finished".

I won't go any further in what I believe. I figure I've already said enough to get modern Christians to throwing rocks at me.

.

[BodhisattvaStyle]

I'd like to add to a thought that was already presented here about 'time.'

I have heards hundreds of interpretations involving the timeline in which all these events occur.

Our perception of time is also different from  Gods in a sense that we have an  A to Z mentality regarding time. I took a look at revelation as if all these events sort of intertwined. Not an A-Z look but imagine tye letters in the alphabet are all a single representation of the events in revelation prophecy. Now imagine throwing all the letters into the air and them landing all out of order, but still together. Our perception of time is an illusion in and of itself. So, what if all these events cannot be put into a chronological order? 

I normally don't comment in threads about Revelation or "end times". What I believe has a sever tendency to piss off modern Christians. I've seen preachers get red in the face and ball their fists up like they were about to try and whoop me for it. So I don't generally enter the discussions even in the real world. Life is too short to spend it arguing with folks over inconsequential things, so I try not to.

Therefore, I'll say a few things only once, and try to be done with it.

First, you are right about the nature of time - it's not at all like we experience it, sequentially. That's just the only way we can experience time in a mortal body.

But the subject of Revelations is even deeper and more convoluted than that. It's my understanding that Revelations is actually in seven sections, and all of those sections overlap one another, like pancakes stacked in a pile. Each one describes the same events, but from a different perspective (or from a different "level", going with the pancake analogy here) than the others. It was written that way as an "apocalypse", a "hidden work", to make it harder to tease out the actual threads. In a way, it's encrypted.

These milennialist perspectives that try to sort out a timeline from Revelations, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel primarily, are all modern inventions. They are no older than the first half of the nineteenth century. Schofield tried to flesh them out with his Bible annotations... but what does it say at the end of revelations about that sort of activity? Tim LaHaye has certainly gone a long way in popularizing Schofield's heresy.

I believe that all of the events of revelations were fulfilled nearly 2000 years ago, and were not written for our eyes or understanding. Rather, it was written for Christians in the first century, when they actually DID go through some severe persecutions and tribulations. "This generation shall not pass..."

I believe Jesus when he said the Kingdom is spiritual, not "of this world". if that is the case, if he was not lying, then of what possible use would an Earthy Millennial reign be to him? It would be an abdication of his throne in the spiritual Kingdom.

I believe that Kingdom was instituted 2000 years ago with the words "It is finished".

I won't go any further in what I believe. I figure I've already said enough to get modern Christians to throwing rocks at me.

.

I have to agree with ya on all of that. That articulation of it is the only thing I've heard that actually balances out that revelation equation. 

You got me thinkin' now...

I

[Ninurta]

I have to agree with ya on all of that. That articulation of it is the only thing I've heard that actually balances out that revelation equation. 

You got me thinkin' now...

I

I just added a paragraph, after you read it - because I'm a kid at heart and can't help myself - to further complicate revelations. it's this one:

To further complicate it, Revelations was written in symbols and symbolic "code", to hide it's revelations from prying eyes who, in the first century AD, were not privy to the Christian teachings of those days. A "New Jerusalem" may not be, and is probably not, and actual physical cubic city larger than the earth flying out of the sky like a comet to obliterate what is now, physically. A "temple" may not be, and probably is not, a large cubic building on the top of Mount Moriah. The "Great Whore of Babylon" may not be, and probably is not, an actual sex worker in the Iraqi desert wastes where a great city once stood. That sort of thing.

I figure that the modern formulation of "The End Times" was developed by Millenialists to give folks a false sense of security - they can live like hell until the "see the signs" of the Kingdom coming, and just wait until then to get right with their Maker. That ain't how it works. We rarely see the end coming for us as individuals, and if we are not pre-prepared, then we miss the chance. Our ends come while we are waiting and looking for THE end, and many are caught unawares that way. The Kingdom is already here, and has been for some time, and Millennialism conditions folks not to see that. It's a shame, really.
.

[BodhisattvaStyle]

I have to agree with ya on all of that. That articulation of it is the only thing I've heard that actually balances out that revelation equation. 

You got me thinkin' now...

I

I just added a paragraph, after you read it - because I'm a kid at heart and can't help myself - to further complicate revelations. it's this one:

To further complicate it, Revelations was written in symbols and symbolic "code", to hide it's revelations from prying eyes who, in the first century AD, were not privy to the Christian teachings of those days. A "New Jerusalem" may not be, and is probably not, and actual physical cubic city larger than the earth flying out of the sky like a comet to obliterate what is now, physically. A "temple" may not be, and probably is not, a large cubic building on the top of Mount Moriah. The "Great Whore of Babylon" may not be, and probably is not, an actual sex worker in the Iraqi desert wastes where a great city once stood. That sort of thing.

.I remember learning about that "code" Revelation was written in and why. 
That is exactly what changed my entire perception of that book. 

I kind of like how catholics put it. "It has already happened, and is happening now, and will still happen."


Something like that. 

[Ninurta]

.I remember learning about that "code" Revelation was written in and why. 
That is exactly what changed my entire perception of that book. 

I kind of like how catholics put it. "It has already happened, and is happening now, and will still happen."


Something like that. 

Exactly. I'm not a Catholic, or really even a Christian of any kind - I was baptized as an Independent Baptist over 30 years ago, but had to walk away due to teachings like Millenialism, and a difference with Christians in matters of Christology - but that is one thing I think the Catholics have right.

But folks should understand this is just how I believe - I'm not saying that is how they should believe, too. What others believe is between them and their God. What I say to them is not important. What God says to them is what matters, for them.

.

[Ninurta]

This is me, not being able to shut up now that I've got started. But I'm gonna try. After I say this.

The Kingdom is not "coming", it is, already, and has been for a long time.

Being here on Earth, as a citizen of the Kingdom, is like being stranded among head hunters in the Amazon, as a citizen of the U.S. Some times, you're gonna slip into their customs as a means of survival, but that's not who you are.  Nothing that happens here really matters in the grand scheme of things. it's jsut a training ground. We are only here to learn. So world events and political strife that we get worked all up about - myself included - really doesn't matter, It's all a temporary thing.

You're not looking for a new Kingdom to be established in the Amazon among those head hunters, you're waiting on the ride back home to the place you're already a citizen, and leaving those head hunters behind in the dust. But while you're there, you might as well learn something. You might discover a new kind of fruit, or the cure for cancer in a jungle plant. You'll never know unless you make the effort to learn.

We're just here to learn. It's not where we really live, it's not our home. If we're lucky, it never will be.





.

[BodhisattvaStyle]

This is me, not being able to shut up now that I've got started. But I'm gonna try. After I say this.

The Kingdom is not "coming", it is, already, and has been for a long time.

Being here on Earth, as a citizen of the Kingdom, is like being stranded among head hunters in the Amazon, as a citizen of the U.S. Some times, you're gonna slip into their customs as a means of survival, but that's not who you are.  Nothing that happens here really matters in the grand scheme of things. it's jsut a training ground. We are only here to learn. So world events and political strife that we get worked all up about - myself included - really doesn't matter, It's all a temporary thing.

You're not looking for a new Kingdom to be established in the Amazon among those head hunters, you're waiting on the ride back home to the place you're already a citizen, and leaving those head hunters behind in the dust.

We're just here to learn. It's not where we really live, it's not our home. If we're lucky, it never will be.





.

I hate it that I can't thank yall for these posts. I just logged back in after swearing I wasn't going to get back on here again tonight. I can't seem to shut up today either. Lol

Everything you just said I have felt very strongly, my whole life. Before all of this knowledge, before all of the years of experience I somehow could feel that this was all temporary, this was not my permanent home, and somehow I was sort of just passing through. 

What you said also made me think of being "refined by the fire." I agree, this is all training. Modling us for the next step.