My horrible truth Witchcraft in my family

[FlickerOfLight]

Sheesh, I'm sorry you had a grandmother like that.  To never tell your grandchild you love them, I don't understand it.  My father was the same way, I can't remember an "I love you" until I was well into my late twenties.  He was the same way with my brother and sister.  He was pretty much a grumpy fuck all the time.

What made you go down the route of believing witchcraft was involved though?  I don't have a strong opinion on witchcraft, I know practically nothing about it.

Dreams. 

I kept having a recurring dream after dad passed. 

It was many, one thing leading to another, but the dreams were what actually lead me to the witchcraft.

[Schmoe]

Dreams. 

I kept having a recurring dream after dad passed. 

It was many, one thing leading to another, but the dreams were what actually lead me to the witchcraft.

Consciousness is something I've had a strong interest in lately, including the dream state.  I think there's a lot more to consciousness than we currently understand, which is very little.  I have a belief we all share a part of a collective consciousness, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out dreams do indeed have real meaning, especially recurring ones.

Thanks for sharing, it's been an interesting read!

---

What constitutes witchcraft is a matter of perspective. My mother was a practicing witch for years as was I but neither are now. I never made a "pact with Satan", only Satanists do that. The Bible is very wishy washy on the subject. It tells you "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet sings the praises of Solomon and he was a bigger witch than Aleister Crowley! 

As long as you're not trying to harm anyone (follow the Law of Three) I have no problem with witches. They are just people with different beliefs. I'd hang out with a witch before I would hang out with "snake handlers". I wouldn't lump all witches together anymore than I'd lump Pentecostals with Moonies. Intent is what matters.

I'll look into the Law of Three, but since I know nothing about witchcraft, I'll pick your brain a bit if you don't mind.

What do witches believe in, or do they have different sects with different beliefs?

[Ninurta]

On the subject of Pentecostals and "Tongues", I have some peripheral experience , but that has caused me to form pretty strong opinions. I believe, personally, that Pentecostals have mis-read and mis-interpreted the use of "Tongues" in the book of Acts.

In Acts, The preachers were preaching to a cosmopolitan crowd, and each listener heard the preaching in his own native tongue. Probably made it a lot easier for them to understand, I reckon, so it had a useful purpose. Note well that the preachers wasn't speaking in gibberish, but instead that each person HEARD their own language.

Now, when I was 14 years old, I ran away from home, hitchhiked my way "across the USA"... not really, but I made it a good 500 miles or so. Anyhow, one of the rides I caught was a fella who turned out to be a Pentecostal. Real nice guy, fed me a meal at his dad's restaurant, but the price of the meal was listening to some preaching, of which "Tongues" was a part. He actually taught me how to "speak in tongues" on purpose and at will, but I couldn't figure out a good use for it. According to him, it was "your soul speaking directly to God in a language that demons couldn't understand or interfere with". Didn't make a lot of sense to me, but that was his rationale.

Flash forward a few years, and I was a DJ at a radio station. Being low man on the totem pole, it was me and one other who ran the place on weekends, from about 4 PM Friday until sundown Sunday, when the station closed down for the night. it was a "sunup to sundown" station. I had an air-shift weekday evenings from 4 PM to sign off through the week. In the winter time that meant a shift about an hour or hour and a half long, and in the summers it could go for upwards of 4 hours an evening.

Sundays were pretty easy going. We'd run a couple of radio shows that were pre-recorded to get the day started, and run a reel-to-reel tape machine on a dedicated line to a local church to record their sermon, then play the tape back on the air after the sermon was over, and then we had several live radio shows of preaching usually running about a half hour each until the afternoon.

Some of those folks were Pentecostals, and I mean to tell you they'd get pretty lively in that tiny broadcast booth. Lots of hollering, dancing, and flinging arms and hands about, right along with live music. Sometimes, they'd get to hollering in "tongues" right there in the booth, and on the air. It always made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, because  had no damned idea what they were saying, or why they couldn't say in in plain English. There was usually someone around that they'd get to "interpret" the mess, but there was never any real way of knowing whether that "interpretation" was factual, or just some more made up BS. Just had to take their word for it... and never any explanation of why English wouldn't do, seeing as how their entire audience were English speakers.

Some of that same bunch were "snake handlers". You ever tossed a preacher out of an establishment? I have, when they brought a wooden box of live rattle snakes in one fine Sunday! The preacher said "well we wasn't gonna turn 'em loose in here!" and I replied "I know damned well you ain't, because you and your box both is fixin' to hit that door, pronto! The only question at this point is whether yer gonna carry it out under yer own power, or whether it's gonna fly out on top of you."

A few years after that, when I was married to my first wife, was the last time I encountered the "Tongues".

On Sunday mornings, we'd go to an Independent Baptist church which leaned pretty hard to the Calvinism, but they were a pretty calm and stuffy crowd, so for a little excitement in religion, we'd go to a Pentecostal church on Sunday evenings... because, as I mentioned, those Pentecostals are a pretty lively bunch!

So one night at the Pentecostal church, there I was, just minding my own business, when the crowd started heating up. Directly, one young lady jumped right up, started shaking and waving her arms around, and speaking in "Tongues". The difference was, this particular time in contrast to all the other times, I could UNDERSTAND what she was saying, and I have no idea to this day how that happened.

It chilled me to the bone.

That gal was speaking ancient Sumerian - which is NOT a language I speak, although in later years I did pick up a few words of it, but nothing like fluency - and the things she was saying ought NEVER to be uttered in a House of God. I'm not going to go into any detail of what it was, other than to say that it creeped me right out, the entire experience. I stood up, gathered my missus at the time up, and walked right out of there without another word. Never went back.

So, I'm not a big fan of "Tongues". if you've got something to say to me, then spit it right out, but do it in English. If it's Gibberish, it might get you smacked before I can get past you to leave.

As far as I'm concerned, Catholics chanting their masses in Latin are speaking Tongues, because I can't understand it. I do read ancient Greek, but I never speak it, because I'm pretty iffy on my pronunciation. Never had a reason to try learning Latin, though.

======================

On the subject of witching, there are all sorts of witches around these days. Some very few adhere to old traditions passed down in their families for centuries, but most of your modern day witches are "wiccans", a made up religion originally started by Gerald Gardener in the early 20th century. From there they've branched out, and some of the more entertaining branches have been heavily influenced by the "Women's Lib" movement of the late 1960's and 1970's. They seem to be all about destroying the patriarchy and replacing it with a matriarchy. I had a run-in once with one of those who claimed to be a "4th generation hereditary priestess" of one of those Matriarchy branches, but she was blowing smoke up my ass...  just don't know if she even knew she was blowing smoke up my ass, though.

I traced whichever branch of "wicca" that she said it was back, and found that it was started by some man-hating old hussy in the 1970's, so I don't even know if there had been enough time to generate any "fourth generation" anythings in it. As "traditions" go, I still have cammie BDU's older than her religion hanging in my closet.

Anyhow, she threatened to fling a hex on me over some trifling bullshit. I just told her to give it her best shot, but not to be surprised if life started going poorly for her thereafter. I don't know if she ever did it or not - it wasn't so strong as I noticed anything hexy going on. if she did.

But, yeah, there are all kinds of witches around these days, mostly what I call "Barnes and Noble" witches, and some of them can be downright entertaining!

.

[Ninurta]

What constitutes witchcraft is a matter of perspective. My mother was a practicing witch for years as was I but neither are now. I never made a "pact with Satan", only Satanists do that. The Bible is very wishy washy on the subject. It tells you "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet sings the praises of Solomon and he was a bigger witch than Aleister Crowley! 

As long as you're not trying to harm anyone (follow the Law of Three) I have no problem with witches. They are just people with different beliefs. I'd hang out with a witch before I would hang out with "snake handlers". I wouldn't lump all witches together anymore than I'd lump Pentecostals with Moonies. Intent is what matters.

Don't forget Saul - he went and consulted with some witch, too. I reckon Saul eventually got smote - although it doesn't specify whether it was for consorting with witches or not - but no word on whether the witch eventually got smote, too.

Is that "Law of Three" where, if you fling an evil hex on someone, it'll come back on you threefold? I think some covens say tenfold, but I might be missing what the Law of Three means. "Three" meant a lot to folks in old timey witchcraft. You had the "threefold goddess", usually exemplified by the Morrigan - "maiden, matron, and crone", and then you also had the Welsh Triad laws, where every law was stated 3 different ways. My guess is that reverence for "threes" made it a lot easier for Island Celts to accept the notion of a "trinity" when Christianity came calling on them.

.

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

What constitutes witchcraft is a matter of perspective. My mother was a practicing witch for years as was I but neither are now. I never made a "pact with Satan", only Satanists do that. The Bible is very wishy washy on the subject. It tells you "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet sings the praises of Solomon and he was a bigger witch than Aleister Crowley! 

As long as you're not trying to harm anyone (follow the Law of Three) I have no problem with witches. They are just people with different beliefs. I'd hang out with a witch before I would hang out with "snake handlers". I wouldn't lump all witches together anymore than I'd lump Pentecostals with Moonies. Intent is what matters.

Don't forget Saul - he went and consulted with some witch, too. I reckon Saul eventually got smote - although it doesn't specify whether it was for consorting with witches or not - but no word on whether the witch eventually got smote, too.

Is that "Law of Three" where, if you fling an evil hex on someone, it'll come back on you threefold? I think some covens say tenfold, but I might be missing what the Law of Three means. "Three" meant a lot to folks in old timey witchcraft. You had the "threefold goddess", usually exemplified by the Morrigan - "maiden, matron, and crone", and then you also had the Welsh Triad laws, where every law was stated 3 different ways. My guess is that reverence for "threes" made it a lot easier for Island Celts to accept the notion of a "trinity" when Christianity came calling on them.

.

In this case I'm referring to the belief that whatever you do- good or bad- returns to you threefold. I do agree that when it comes to the "bad" it seems to multiply to more like tenfold, "bad" meaning something harmful or even just something without the explicit permission of the "target" though I only participated in something that was done without explicit permission once and even though done with good intent backfired with hell to pay. 

I have often wondered if the Christian concept of the Trinity is based on the belief in the Triple Goddess. So much of the different Pagan beliefs are incorporated into Christianity that it is difficult sometimes to tell which came first- the chicken or the egg? I suspect that just like many other Christian rituals and holidays the Trinity is also based on much, much older beliefs. I know that in order to convert Pagans to Christianity (at least "officially") there was a LOT of blending involved, so much that we may never know what form the original Christian religion looked like. 

I wonder how many Catholics realize that taking communion is a magick ritual? Lol!

[FlickerOfLight]

What constitutes witchcraft is a matter of perspective. My mother was a practicing witch for years as was I but neither are now. I never made a "pact with Satan", only Satanists do that. The Bible is very wishy washy on the subject. It tells you "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet sings the praises of Solomon and he was a bigger witch than Aleister Crowley! 

As long as you're not trying to harm anyone (follow the Law of Three) I have no problem with witches. They are just people with different beliefs. I'd hang out with a witch before I would hang out with "snake handlers". I wouldn't lump all witches together anymore than I'd lump Pentecostals with Moonies. Intent is what matters.

Don't forget Saul - he went and consulted with some witch, too. I reckon Saul eventually got smote - although it doesn't specify whether it was for consorting with witches or not - but no word on whether the witch eventually got smote, too.

Is that "Law of Three" where, if you fling an evil hex on someone, it'll come back on you threefold? I think some covens say tenfold, but I might be missing what the Law of Three means. "Three" meant a lot to folks in old timey witchcraft. You had the "threefold goddess", usually exemplified by the Morrigan - "maiden, matron, and crone", and then you also had the Welsh Triad laws, where every law was stated 3 different ways. My guess is that reverence for "threes" made it a lot easier for Island Celts to accept the notion of a "trinity" when Christianity came calling on them.

.

In this case I'm referring to the belief that whatever you do- good or bad- returns to you threefold. I do agree that when it comes to the "bad" it seems to multiply to more like tenfold, "bad" meaning something harmful or even just something without the explicit permission of the "target" though I only participated in something that was done without explicit permission once and even though done with good intent backfired with hell to pay. 

I have often wondered if the Christian concept of the Trinity is based on the belief in the Triple Goddess. So much of the different Pagan beliefs are incorporated into Christianity that it is difficult sometimes to tell which came first- the chicken or the egg? I suspect that just like many other Christian rituals and holidays the Trinity is also based on much, much older beliefs. I know that in order to convert Pagans to Christianity (at least "officially") there was a LOT of blending involved, so much that we may never know what form the original Christian religion looked like. 

I wonder how many Catholics realize that taking communion is a magick ritual? Lol!

Catholicism is full of ritualistic magick imo. 


In Voodoo magick if someone had a lock of your hair, or something you were very* emotionally attached to that person could put all kinds of hexes and spells on you. There are some forms of magick that don't need any "permission" for someone to cast a spell on them, or even attach a familiar spirit to. Especially if they can place an object in your home. (Hollywood did get some of it right)



I think a curse or hex was placed on my mom by someone as an attack at my granny (long story). I believe granny was trying to break the curse or spell.


I meant to mention that yesterday, and wanted to make sure it was in the thread.

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

Catholicism is full of ritualistic magick imo. 


In Voodoo magick if someone had a lock of your hair, or something you were very* emotionally attached to that person could put all kinds of hexes and spells on you. There are some forms of magick that don't need any "permission" for someone to cast a spell on them, or even attach a familiar spirit to. Especially if they can place an object in your home. (Hollywood did get some of it right)



I think a curse or hex was placed on my mom by someone as an attack at my granny (long story). I believe granny was trying to break the curse or spell.


I meant to mention that yesterday, and wanted to make sure it was in the thread.

THIS is what we were talking about. Most witched do NOT do hexes and curses because of the Law of Three (whatever you do comes back to you threefold, or instant karma x3). You do not NEED permission but you absolutely WANT permission if you don't want to risk it coming back on you in a very bad way. That is why witches who are smart only do things that are healing or helpful and never on anyone's behalf unless personally requested. 

If someone cursed or hexed your grandmother you can rest assured that however bad it was on your granny things were much, much worse on the person that cursed her. Some people are just so evil and vindictive that they just don't care about the future repercussions.

[FlickerOfLight]

Dreams. 

I kept having a recurring dream after dad passed. 

It was many, one thing leading to another, but the dreams were what actually lead me to the witchcraft.

Consciousness is something I've had a strong interest in lately, including the dream state.  I think there's a lot more to consciousness than we currently understand, which is very little.  I have a belief we all share a part of a collective consciousness, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out dreams do indeed have real meaning, especially recurring ones.

Thanks for sharing, it's been an interesting read!

---

What constitutes witchcraft is a matter of perspective. My mother was a practicing witch for years as was I but neither are now. I never made a "pact with Satan", only Satanists do that. The Bible is very wishy washy on the subject. It tells you "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet sings the praises of Solomon and he was a bigger witch than Aleister Crowley! 

As long as you're not trying to harm anyone (follow the Law of Three) I have no problem with witches. They are just people with different beliefs. I'd hang out with a witch before I would hang out with "snake handlers". I wouldn't lump all witches together anymore than I'd lump Pentecostals with Moonies. Intent is what matters.

I'll look into the Law of Three, but since I know nothing about witchcraft, I'll pick your brain a bit if you don't mind.

What do witches believe in, or do they have different sects with different beliefs?

I can answer a little bit of that question.

"Witches" have different beliefs, or sects of beliefs. Depending on how deeply involved, or how seriously they take it. Some are good. They believe in love and harmony. They are very connected to nature and all the medicines that grow in roots and herbs. They are caring and do what they believe to be "good" for others. And they are"good" people.

Then the dark side. They believe whatever they believe. They can worship evil spirits and demons; and even satan. It varys from family to family. Witchcraft is something that is passed off from generation to generation. Usually a "witch" will keep a book of spells they have accumulated. They call this "the book of shadows." These books are kept hidden and secret and are passed down from each generation.

Many different sects. It's more of a familia thing, as far as what they believe and practice.

Some use magick for good; for things like healing and protection.

Some use it for their own personal gain.

Some use it for pure evil.
As far as magick goes there are so many forms of it.


If I got anything wrong GHLd let us know. This was I had picked up along the way.

---

Catholicism is full of ritualistic magick imo. 


In Voodoo magick if someone had a lock of your hair, or something you were very* emotionally attached to that person could put all kinds of hexes and spells on you. There are some forms of magick that don't need any "permission" for someone to cast a spell on them, or even attach a familiar spirit to. Especially if they can place an object in your home. (Hollywood did get some of it right)



I think a curse or hex was placed on my mom by someone as an attack at my granny (long story). I believe granny was trying to break the curse or spell.


I meant to mention that yesterday, and wanted to make sure it was in the thread.

THIS is what we were talking about. Most witched do NOT do hexes and curses because of the Law of Three (whatever you do comes back to you threefold, or instant karma x3). You do not NEED permission but you absolutely WANT permission if you don't want to risk it coming back on you in a very bad way. That is why witches who are smart only do things that are healing or helpful and never on anyone's behalf unless personally requested. 

If someone cursed or hexed your grandmother you can rest assured that however bad it was on your granny things were much, much worse on the person that cursed her. Some people are just so evil and vindictive that they just don't care about the future repercussions.

I believe that last part with all my heart. I think the situation would have lead someone to hex granny despite the repercussions. 

I'll divulge.

This is back in the late 1940's and 1950's this was going on.

Apparently my grandfather had been sleeping around with all the town women. Even getting them pregnant and having nothing to do with them.

Many homes and familys were destroyed.

We all now what happens when a "woman is scorned."

There were many scorned women involved.

Granny and her entire family became the community's public enemy number 1.

Backtrack some of this and their were known witches involved. Apparently gran-daddy liked a "bad girl" and was an severe adulterer.

Back in the 40's and 50's this was highly frowned upon. Granny became divorced. Grandad left his family high and dry; and it was found out he had a whole other family on the side. Thats when everyone really excommunicated her and her entire family. They were chased out pitch fork and torch style pretty much.

My granny was an innocent in all of this from what I gathered. Faithful wife, and good mother to 5 children. Her husband was an adulterer.


Theres more but you all deserve some of the meat of this.

To any young reader, things were very different back then.

Apparently this shit got real ugly. They had to move out of state because of this.

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

I believe that last part with all my heart. I think the situation would have lead someone to hex granny despite the repercussions. 

I'll divulge.

This is back in the late 1940's and 1950's this was going on.

Apparently my grandfather had been sleeping around with all the town women. Even getting them pregnant and having nothing to do with them.

Many homes and familys were destroyed.

We all now what happens when a "woman is scorned."

There were many scorned women involved.

Granny and her entire family became the community's public enemy number 1.

Backtrack some of this and their were known witches involved. Apparently gran-daddy liked a "bad girl" and was an severe adulterer.

Back in the 40's and 50's this was highly frowned upon. Granny became divorced. Thats when everyone really excommunicated her and her entire family. They were chased out pitch fork and torch style pretty much.

My granny was an innocent in all of this from what I gathered. Faithful wife, and good mother to 5 children. Her husband was an adulterer.


Theres more but you all deserve some of the meat of this.

To any young reader, things were very different back then.

Apparently this shit got real ugly. They had to move out of state because of this.

That explains a lot! Sad for your granny but times were different then. 

It is really unfortunate that so many women target the innocent in their vindictiveness rather than the person who really deserves their ire. Sounds like your grandpa was a scoundrel! Somebody wanted granny and kids out of the way so she could have grandpa to herself but I highly doubt it worked out that way. My guess is that either she didn't "get her golden goose" or if she did he treated her much, much worse than he ever treated granny much to her regret. That's where that Law of Three comes home to roost!

---

I'll look into the Law of Three, but since I know nothing about witchcraft, I'll pick your brain a bit if you don't mind.

What do witches believe in, or do they have different sects with different beliefs?

Different sects, different beliefs, as varied as any other religious system. Nowadays the concept of the "coven" isn't as important anymore just as many Christians do their own thing rather than attend a formal congregation.  You can follow an established path or you can create your own path.

The Law of Three could be compared to karma for lack of a better term, though rather than the results of karma manifesting in one's next incarnation the results come fast and hard. Whatever you do on this plane returns to you threefold. If you do good it comes back to you three times as much as you give, the same with bad but often times the multiplier is much more than three and it seems that the return of bad is much, much faster than the return of good.

[FlickerOfLight]

I believe that last part with all my heart. I think the situation would have lead someone to hex granny despite the repercussions. 

I'll divulge.

This is back in the late 1940's and 1950's this was going on.

Apparently my grandfather had been sleeping around with all the town women. Even getting them pregnant and having nothing to do with them.

Many homes and familys were destroyed.

We all now what happens when a "woman is scorned."

There were many scorned women involved.

Granny and her entire family became the community's public enemy number 1.

Backtrack some of this and their were known witches involved. Apparently gran-daddy liked a "bad girl" and was an severe adulterer.

Back in the 40's and 50's this was highly frowned upon. Granny became divorced. Thats when everyone really excommunicated her and her entire family. They were chased out pitch fork and torch style pretty much.

My granny was an innocent in all of this from what I gathered. Faithful wife, and good mother to 5 children. Her husband was an adulterer.


Theres more but you all deserve some of the meat of this.

To any young reader, things were very different back then.

Apparently this shit got real ugly. They had to move out of state because of this.

That explains a lot! Sad for your granny but times were different then. 

It is really unfortunate that so many women target the innocent in their vindictiveness rather than the person who really deserves their ire. Sounds like your grandpa was a scoundrel! Somebody wanted granny and kids out of the way so she could have grandpa to herself but I highly doubt it worked out that way. My guess is that either she didn't "get her golden goose" or if she did he treated her much, much worse than he ever treated granny much to her regret. That's where that Law of Three comes home to roost!

---

I'll look into the Law of Three, but since I know nothing about witchcraft, I'll pick your brain a bit if you don't mind.

What do witches believe in, or do they have different sects with different beliefs?

Different sects, different beliefs, as varied as any other religious system. Nowadays the concept of the "coven" isn't as important anymore just as many Christians do their own thing rather than attend a formal congregation.  You can follow an established path or you can create your own path.

The Law of Three could be compared to karma for lack of a better term, though rather than the results of karma manifesting in one's next incarnation the results come fast and hard. Whatever you do on this plane returns to you threefold. If you do good it comes back to you three times as much as you give, the same with bad but often times the multiplier is much more than three and it seems that the return of bad is much, much faster than the return of good.

I find it very interesting that the laws of karma are the same no matter which religious goggles you look through. 

Thank you, GHLd.


Hell, there are some people who use "Christianity" for evil. There are people who use "giving" for evil. I've seen "love" weaponized


The intention of the heart makes all the difference.

---

The constant adultery of my grandfather, who was very well off at the time, ruined so many families and home. An entire community cast, not only him out, but his family as well. He was found to have two families going; one in secret, and on public. The company that he worked for even fired him. My granny went to his job and begged them not to fire him. Blamed it on herself, and he was allowed to keep his job. His family was looked at as pure evil. Even the church, that they had been life long members of, cast them out. The town folk were constantly vandalizing their property. The kids in school were no allowed to play with my moms family; and because of wicked parenting and evil gossiping, even the children ridiculed, beat up, chastised and cast aside that family. 

My granny gets pregnant with my mom in hopes of keeping her husband and saving her family at this point...


My grandaddy leaves my granny. Before mom was even born. My grandmother is now pregnant with her 5th child (my mom).

My grandfather leaves them and goes to his secret family....and lives out his life with them....and never has anything to do with his wife or children ever again.

Things got worse for granny and her family. 

Attacks from all fronts.

A certain family decided they wanted that family dead.

Many attempts were made. There was even a suspicious "suicide" that sounds like a covered up murder of one of the cousins who had come there to protect the family. 

Things were stolen constantly. 

This is where granny turns to any help she can get. They eventually move out of state very soon after this.

I'll end here.

Someone somewhere along the way put a curse or hex on them. To what degree I do not know. From what I can tell looking back, and what has happened to my family since all of this, my guess is it was a powerful spell.


That's from all the things I've seen and learned.

Thanks for reading, RN.

[Ninurta]

That explains a lot, right down to why your granny was "stand-off-ish". There is only so much targeting of the folks you love possible before you'll start hiding just who that is. It's a mind-set where you believe it's better they think you hate them than it is they get targeted because you love them. In your own mind, you are "protecting" them by distancing yourself from them.

Were your mom's folks "mountain folks" too? I ask because it's starting to sound like a mountain hex-war. I've known of folks to do odd things, like hammer a certain number of nails into a certain kind of tree, in order to "turn" a hex or find out who hexed it to begin with for further retribution.

Old timers here used to bury their hair under rocks secretly whenever they got a hair cut to prevent birds from carrying it off for nesting material, where a witch might get hold of it for hex-flinging.

Out in the rest of the world, mountain folks are perceived of as one big happy culture area, but strictly speaking that isn't true. There is a subtle gradient from the far northern areas to the far southern areas of the Appalachians. I'm in the Central Appalachian area, my dad was from the northern fringe of that area, meaning there are differences detectable between the culture here and the culture where he was raised if you know what you're looking for, because his culture was this one but mixed with the more northern PA Appalachian culture...and as you go southward, other differences are introduced depending on how far south you go. That sounds more like the Southern Appalachian area which you start running into in upper east Tennessee strengthening as you go southward.

But the rest of the world has lumped us all into one big "Appalachian Hillbilly" culture, with a big introduction of Ozark culture mixed in, for entertainment purposes.

To the north, there is more of a German influence, centrally it's more of a Scots-Irish influence, and southward French and maybe a little Spanish influence creeps in, all of them influenced by their local Indian cultures for purposes of their witchery and attitudes. A lot of Appalachian witchery can be traced back to Native American cultures being mixed in with the witchery they all brought from the home countries.

There are differences in speech as well. For example, my dad's folks pronounce "oil" as "orel", "fish" as "feesh", and "creek" as "crick", which you also find a lot of up in PA. Here, you will often hear people pronounce "electricity" as "'lektwicity", and "plastic" as "plasket". A "bag" is often referred to as a "sack" or a "poke". Soft drinks are "sodas" here, where farther north they are "pop".

And of course there is the perennial disagreement between areas on whether "Appalachian" is pronounced as "Appa-LAY-shun" or "appa-LATCH-un". It's the latter here.

.

[FlickerOfLight]

That explains a lot, right down to why your granny was "stand-off-ish". There is only so much targeting of the folks possible you love before you'll start hiding just who that is. It's a mind-set where you believe it's better they think you hate them than it is they get targeted because you love them. In your own mind, you are "protecting" them by distancing yourself from them.

Were your mom's folks "mountain folks" too? I ask because it's starting to sound like a mountain hex-war. I've known of folks to do odd things, like hammer a certain number of nails into a certain kind of tree, in order to "turn" a hex or find out who hexed it to begin with for further retribution.

Old timers here used to bury their hair under rocks secretly whenever they got a hair cut to prevent birds from carrying it off for nesting material, where a witch might get hold of it for hex-flinging.

Out in the rest of the world, mountain folks are perceived of as one big happy culture area, but strictly speaking that isn't true. There is a subtle gradient from the far northern areas to the far southern areas of the Appalachians. I'm in the Central Appalachian area, my dad was from the northern fringe of that area, meaning there are differences detectable between the culture here and the culture where he was raised if you know what you're looking for, because his culture was this one but mixed with the more northern PA Appalachian culture...and as you go southward, other differences are introduced depending on how far south you go. That sounds more like the Southern Appalachian area which you start running into in upper east Tennessee strengthening as you go southward.

But the rest of the world has lumped us all into one big "Appalachian Hillbilly" culture, with a big introduction of Ozark culture mixed in, for entertainment purposes.

To the north, there is more of a German influence, centrally it's more of a Scots-Irish influence, and southward French and maybe a little Spanish influence creeps in, all of them influenced by their local Indian cultures for purposes of their witchery and attitudes. A lot of Appalachian witchery can be traced back to Native American cultures being mixed in with the witchery they all brought from the home countries.

There are differences in speech as well. For example, my dad's folks pronounce "oil" as "orel", "fish" as "feesh", and "creek" as "crick", which you also find a lot of up in PA. Here, you will often hear people pronounce "electricity" as "'lektwicity", and "plastic" as "plasket". A "bag" is often referred to as a "sack" or a "poke". Soft drinks are "sodas" here, where farther north they are "pop".

And of course there is the perennial disagreement between areas on whether "Appalachian" is pronounced as "Appa-LAY-shun" or "appa-LATCH-un". It's the latter here.

.

And "fire" was "faar." lol

My mom is from deep southeast GA. They were from a very small town. Very near the Okeefenokee swamp area. We even used to have our family reunions right near where that swamp entrance is today. Deep south GA.

There is a lot of dark history surrounding that area. Even today it holds a very old world value. "Old world religion" is there joy. 
Back then I imagine that was a hundred times worse than it is now in 2024. 
I know it has managed to stay segregated to this day.


There's actually even more to the story. haha

It involves my mom's granny. My great granny. If I told you all that you'd definitely see my POV. 

But, it's even more personal. Apparently that family history is riddled with wild and crazy events, and associations.

For instance, an uncle of mine, from that side of the family, was a freemason, (he's passed) but a high level FM. 29 or 30 level FM last I heard, and that was when I was little, and we just happen to over hear it. I believe he was Illuminati.  (but what do i know, right? )




Also, thank you. That was a good insight into my granny. One I had considered. I have always said, "Even though my granny never told me she loved me, or hugged me, or showed any real interest in me, I still knew she loved me. I never once felt unloved by her, or doubted that she did."

Now I see how badly she had been hurt.

[Schmoe]

Dreams. 

I kept having a recurring dream after dad passed. 

It was many, one thing leading to another, but the dreams were what actually lead me to the witchcraft.

Consciousness is something I've had a strong interest in lately, including the dream state.  I think there's a lot more to consciousness than we currently understand, which is very little.  I have a belief we all share a part of a collective consciousness, so it wouldn't surprise me to find out dreams do indeed have real meaning, especially recurring ones.

Thanks for sharing, it's been an interesting read!

---

What constitutes witchcraft is a matter of perspective. My mother was a practicing witch for years as was I but neither are now. I never made a "pact with Satan", only Satanists do that. The Bible is very wishy washy on the subject. It tells you "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet sings the praises of Solomon and he was a bigger witch than Aleister Crowley! 

As long as you're not trying to harm anyone (follow the Law of Three) I have no problem with witches. They are just people with different beliefs. I'd hang out with a witch before I would hang out with "snake handlers". I wouldn't lump all witches together anymore than I'd lump Pentecostals with Moonies. Intent is what matters.

I'll look into the Law of Three, but since I know nothing about witchcraft, I'll pick your brain a bit if you don't mind.

What do witches believe in, or do they have different sects with different beliefs?

I can answer a little bit of that question.

"Witches" have different beliefs, or sects of beliefs. Depending on how deeply involved, or how seriously they take it. Some are good. They believe in love and harmony. They are very connected to nature and all the medicines that grow in roots and herbs. They are caring and do what they believe to be "good" for others. And they are"good" people.

Then the dark side. They believe whatever they believe. They can worship evil spirits and demons; and even satan. It varys from family to family. Witchcraft is something that is passed off from generation to generation. Usually a "witch" will keep a book of spells they have accumulated. They call this "the book of shadows." These books are kept hidden and secret and are passed down from each generation.

Many different sects. It's more of a familia thing, as far as what they believe and practice.

Some use magick for good; for things like healing and protection.

Some use it for their own personal gain.

Some use it for pure evil.
As far as magick goes there are so many forms of it.


If I got anything wrong GHLd let us know. This was I had picked up along the way.

---

Catholicism is full of ritualistic magick imo. 


In Voodoo magick if someone had a lock of your hair, or something you were very* emotionally attached to that person could put all kinds of hexes and spells on you. There are some forms of magick that don't need any "permission" for someone to cast a spell on them, or even attach a familiar spirit to. Especially if they can place an object in your home. (Hollywood did get some of it right)



I think a curse or hex was placed on my mom by someone as an attack at my granny (long story). I believe granny was trying to break the curse or spell.


I meant to mention that yesterday, and wanted to make sure it was in the thread.

THIS is what we were talking about. Most witched do NOT do hexes and curses because of the Law of Three (whatever you do comes back to you threefold, or instant karma x3). You do not NEED permission but you absolutely WANT permission if you don't want to risk it coming back on you in a very bad way. That is why witches who are smart only do things that are healing or helpful and never on anyone's behalf unless personally requested. 

If someone cursed or hexed your grandmother you can rest assured that however bad it was on your granny things were much, much worse on the person that cursed her. Some people are just so evil and vindictive that they just don't care about the future repercussions.

I believe that last part with all my heart. I think the situation would have lead someone to hex granny despite the repercussions. 

I'll divulge.

This is back in the late 1940's and 1950's this was going on.

Apparently my grandfather had been sleeping around with all the town women. Even getting them pregnant and having nothing to do with them.

Many homes and familys were destroyed.

We all now what happens when a "woman is scorned."

There were many scorned women involved.

Granny and her entire family became the community's public enemy number 1.

Backtrack some of this and their were known witches involved. Apparently gran-daddy liked a "bad girl" and was an severe adulterer.

Back in the 40's and 50's this was highly frowned upon. Granny became divorced. Grandad left his family high and dry; and it was found out he had a whole other family on the side. Thats when everyone really excommunicated her and her entire family. They were chased out pitch fork and torch style pretty much.

My granny was an innocent in all of this from what I gathered. Faithful wife, and good mother to 5 children. Her husband was an adulterer.


Theres more but you all deserve some of the meat of this.

To any young reader, things were very different back then.

Apparently this shit got real ugly. They had to move out of state because of this.

So the evil ones, by worshipping or summoning demons or Satan, are acknowledging the Christian/Jewish faith in a way, since Satan was a biblical construct?

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

So the evil ones, by worshipping or summoning demons or Satan, are acknowledging the Christian/Jewish faith in a way, since Satan was a biblical construct?

I would say that's a yes- if they are actually worshipping Satan. One can't believe in Satan unless also believing in God. However not all "bad" witches worship Satan. In witchcraft you are using ritual to draw spirits to do your bidding. Spirits can be good, bad or neutral. They have to be very careful to use as much protection as possible. "Casting a circle" doesn't only focus energy and intent- it also offers protection from unwanted spirits or can contain spirits in some instances.

[FlickerOfLight]

There are some witches who know God exists, and not only rejects Him, but hate Him as well.

They've met demons and evil spirits. So they know there is a God.

These are the most dangerous of all.


These days I think that's fewer and further between though. Or just hidden for the most part.

[Schmoe]

So the evil ones, by worshipping or summoning demons or Satan, are acknowledging the Christian/Jewish faith in a way, since Satan was a biblical construct?

I would say that's a yes- if they are actually worshipping Satan. One can't believe in Satan unless also believing in God. However not all "bad" witches worship Satan. In witchcraft you are using ritual to draw spirits to do your bidding. Spirits can be good, bad or neutral. They have to be very careful to use as much protection as possible. "Casting a circle" doesn't only focus energy and intent- it also offers protection from unwanted spirits or can contain spirits in some instances.

I do like the concept of the Rule of Three, there are many people in this world who make me wish karma is real.  I like the idea of instant karma even better.  Guess I need to watch it though, I've been negative as hell lately 

[Ninurta]

And "fire" was "faar." lol

Yes, Exactly! Similarly, "ice" is pronounced "ass" here. I moved here my freshman year of high school. You may well be able to imagine my surprise when, on my third day at school, a young lady I did not know from Adam walked right up to me with a cup of ice in her hand and asked me if I wanted "a piece of ass"... "My!" I thought, "but this IS a really friendly place!"

My mom is from deep southeast GA. They were from a very small town. Very near the Okeefenokee swamp area. We even used to have our family reunions right near where that swamp entrance is today. Deep south GA.

There is a lot of dark history surrounding that area. Even today it holds a very old world value. "Old world religion" is there joy. 
Back then I imagine that was a hundred times worse than it is now in 2024. 

Yup, a very old history. The first European settlers in that area were French Huguenots. That was long before Jamestown, or even St. Augustine. The Spaniards rolled in and massacred the French wherever they could find them as "infidels" because they were French, and they were Huguenots rather than Catholics... and therefore clearly anti-christs. Matter of fact, those French attempts at settlement were the reason the Spaniards founded St. Augustine, as a forward operating base to keep a watch for French heretics (otherwise known as "Huguenots", same as "Protestants").

The Spaniards also massacred Frenchmen at Ft. Caroline, then took that base over as well and renamed it "Santa Helena". It is where Parris Island Marine Recruit Depot is today. From Santa Helena, the Spaniards sent an expeditionary force under Juan Pardo (1567) inland to subdue and "civilize" the natives. Didn't turn out so well for them. Out of six Spanish forts seeded in the Carolinas, all but one Spaniard were massacred by their host Indians.

A Sergeant of Juan Pardo, Hernan Moyano, led a force as far as Saltville, VA, (almost in my lap here where i sit) where he destroyed a town or two of Indians (as I recall, one of the towns he burned down was called "Maniateca") and then withdrew into east TN and forted up since he had burned up all his goodwill among the natives.

Because of the massacres of the Pardo troops, and the earlier massacres of the De Soto expedition (1539-1542) in their march across the US South, the Spaniards got the idea that the North American Indians might not be all that friendly after all, certainly not as docile as the Aztecs or Incas, and pulled back all the way to St Augustine, abandoning Santa Helena.

The last Spanish attempt at colonization on the eastern US seaboard was in 1570 on York River in VA by some Jesuits. They too were massacred to a man, with the exception of one boy whom they had taken along as an altar boy. After that massacre, Menendez de Aviles pulled all Spaniards back to St Augustine and never troubled the natives north of southern Georgia again.

One of Pardo's six forts, Fort San Juan, is being excavated near Morgaton, NC. Pardo called the associated Indian village "Joara", but the De Soto expedition knew it as "Xualla". Archaeologically, it's called "The Berry Site".

The entire area, not just Kentucky, has been a "dark and bloody ground" for centuries.

For instance, an uncle of mine, from that side of the family, was a freemason, (he's passed) but a high level FM. 29 or 30 level FM last I heard, and that was when I was little, and we just happen to over hear it. I believe he was Illuminati.  (but what do i know, right? )

I've got no Masons in the family tree so far as I know. My grandpa was a stone mason, but I don't think he went through any of those silly assed masonic rituals or paid any dues to them or anything like that. He just chipped rocks and made walls. HIS dad, my great grand dad, was an "Odd Fellow" (International Order Of Odd Fellows - I.O.O.F.). I've got his dues book and a couple of I.O.O.F. certificates of his, but I don't think they ever got up to any world domination stuff. I've heard stories of coffins being found in basements of Odd Fellows lodges, though, so who knows?

Masons were latecomers here apparently, and never got a real foothold. I only know of one Mason Lodge in the entire area, although there may be more that I don't know of. The one I know of is in Grundy, VA. I drove past it today while I was out and about. It looks petty forlorn and lonely

.

[FlickerOfLight]

And "fire" was "faar." lol

Yes, Exactly! Similarly, "ice" is pronounced "ass" here. I moved here my freshman year of high school. You may well be able to imagine my surprise when, on my third day at school, a young lady I did not know from Adam walked right up to me with a cup of ice in her hand and asked me if I wanted "a piece of ass"... "My!" I thought, "but this IS a really friendly place!"

My mom is from deep southeast GA. They were from a very small town. Very near the Okeefenokee swamp area. We even used to have our family reunions right near where that swamp entrance is today. Deep south GA.

There is a lot of dark history surrounding that area. Even today it holds a very old world value. "Old world religion" is there joy. 
Back then I imagine that was a hundred times worse than it is now in 2024. 

Yup, a very old history. The first European settlers in that area were French Huguenots. That was long before Jamestown, or even St. Augustine. The Spaniards rolled in and massacred the French wherever they could find them as "infidels" because they were French, and they were Huguenots rather than Catholics... and therefore clearly anti-christs. Matter of fact, those French attempts at settlement were the reason the Spaniards founded St. Augustine, as a forward operating base to keep a watch for French heretics (otherwise known as "Huguenots", same as "Protestants").

The Spaniards also massacred Frenchmen at Ft. Caroline, then took that base over as well and renamed it "Santa Helena". It is where Parris Island Marine Recruit Depot is today. From Santa Helena, the Spaniards sent an expeditionary force under Juan Pardo (1567) inland to subdue and "civilize" the natives. Didn't turn out so well for them. Out of six Spanish forts seeded in the Carolinas, all but one Spaniard were massacred by their host Indians.

A Sergeant of Juan Pardo, Hernan Moyano, led a force as far as Saltville, VA, (almost in my lap here where i sit) where he destroyed a town or two of Indians (as I recall, one of the towns he burned down was called "Maniateca") and then withdrew into east TN and forted up since he had burned up all his goodwill among the natives.

Because of the massacres of the Pardo troops, and the earlier massacres of the De Soto expedition (1539-1542) in their march across the US South, the Spaniards got the idea that the North American Indians might not be all that friendly after all, certainly not as docile as the Aztecs or Incas, and pulled back all the way to St Augustine, abandoning Santa Helena.

The last Spanish attempt at colonization on the eastern US seaboard was in 1570 on York River in VA by some Jesuits. They too were massacred to a man, with the exception of one boy whom they had taken along as an altar boy. After that massacre, Menendez de Aviles pulled all Spaniards back to St Augustine and never troubled the natives north of southern Georgia again.

One of Pardo's six forts, Fort San Juan, is being excavated near Morgaton, NC. Pardo called the associated Indian village "Joara", but the De Soto expedition knew it as "Xualla". Archaeologically, it's called "The Berry Site".

The entire area, not just Kentucky, has been a "dark and bloody ground" for centuries.

For instance, an uncle of mine, from that side of the family, was a freemason, (he's passed) but a high level FM. 29 or 30 level FM last I heard, and that was when I was little, and we just happen to over hear it. I believe he was Illuminati.  (but what do i know, right? )

I've got no Masons in the family tree so far as I know. My grandpa was a stone mason, but I don't think he went through any of those silly assed masonic rituals or paid any dues to them or anything like that. He just chipped rocks and made walls. HIS dad, my great grand dad, was an "Odd Fellow" (International Order Of Odd Fellows - I.O.O.F.). I've got his dues book and a couple of I.O.O.F. certificates of his, but I don't think they ever got up to any world domination stuff. I've heard stories of coffins being found in basements of Odd Fellows lodges, though, so who knows?

Masons were latecomers here apparently, and never got a real foothold. I only know of one Mason Lodge in the entire area, although there may be more that I don't know of. The one I know of is in Grundy, VA. I drove past it today while I was out and about. It looks petty forlorn and lonely

.

Great history lesson. That is a lot more than I ever found.

Most of what i saw had a lot more to do with the natives, and the Civil War.

More dark history would be that I'm a stones throw away from jekyll Island. 

I'm in old Timucua territory. 

All kinds of wild tales going on there, and all that went down at jekyll Island.

[BIAD]

And "fire" was "faar." lol

My mom is from deep southeast GA. They were from a very small town. Very near the Okeefenokee swamp area. We even used to have our family reunions right near where that swamp entrance is today. Deep south GA.

There is a lot of dark history surrounding that area. Even today it holds a very old world value. "Old world religion" is there joy. 
Back then I imagine that was a hundred times worse than it is now in 2024. 
I know it has managed to stay segregated to this day.


There's actually even more to the story. haha...

Not to be outdone and with all respect to my fellow-Rogues, this may be a time to mention the strange
language of the region wor lass (my wife) originated from!!

[Ninurta]

So the evil ones, by worshipping or summoning demons or Satan, are acknowledging the Christian/Jewish faith in a way, since Satan was a biblical construct?

I dunno. Every culture has their "evil spirits" or "bad spirits", and that's usually how I refer to them, to avoid culturalizing them and isolating them to a single culture, because they are apparently world-wide, not just isolated to Christians.

So, just because a Christian accuses someone of consorting with demons does not necessarily make it so - the accused may see the situation in an entirely different light, and be of an entirely different culture.

An analogous situation would be if, for example, a Muslim started railing about "Shaitan" and "Djinn", and accusing Christians of consorting with such because they do not worship Allah. Those are Islamic evil spirits, and a Christian ought properly to have nothing to do with them, since they are not Christian concepts.

I don't believe in "demons", because I'm not Greek, nor am I in Greece. As far as I can tell, demons are Greek evil spirits that were conscripted into Catholicism by the Latins. They are someone else's "evil spirits", not mine. The evil spirits around here are "motshi-moneto". They are the evil spirits of this land.

I'm not worried about "djinn" around here, either. Just because some Muslim might call them that doesn't make it so. They have an entirely different character from Islamic desert "demons".

ETA: It comes to mind, however, that it may not matter whether I believe in demons or not if they believe in me... and I happen to at some point tread their stompin' grounds...

.