(11-03-2024, 07:49 PM)Ninurta Wrote: The angels encountered by Abraham, by Jacob, and by Lot were mistaken for men, which means that they must have had actual, physical, visible being at that point. In those cases, the Bible refers to them speicifically as "a man" or "men".
Paul says that many have entertained angels unawares, meaning that they must have been mistaken for human at those points, too. So, there is continuity up to at least relatively modern times, and no reason to suspect that may have changed.
So I have to conclude that they can be both physical and non-corporeal, as occasion demands. If that is true of angels, might it not also be true of other spiritual beings?
Jacob initially mistook his angel for a man, physical enough to wrestle with him, but then identified the angel as "God", and it is said that he "wrestled with God", physically. So it seems that angels are, in some way, manifestations of God when they are delivering messages from God. Seemingly something more than just a "mouthpiece for God" when delivering the messages. it seems that, in some way or in some part, they ARE God... or at least to be identified as such.
The nature of angels would be a fascinating area of study I think, and might lend insight into other areas of the spiritual realm.
Healing by a "laying on of hands" does still occur, but it's not as publicized as it once was. I know a man who can do it for others, but cannot do it for himself, which is something of a pity. The power to heal does not come from him, but comes from elsewhere, only through him as a conduit of some sort. He says when the power flows, he can feel it in his hands as a sort of warm, tingling sensation, leaving his hands and going into the target area as if it were a flow of something like electricity, some sort of power.
In regard to several of the "spiritual gifts", when the perfect comes, the imperfect disappears, because there is no further need of it. Certain knowledge destroys the need for faith, and that is not always a good thing.
I personally think there is a reason that science has not been able to verify spiritual things. I think it's because science and religion are two entirely different realms of inquiry, meant and designed to answer different questions. I doubt that science will ever be able to confirm or refute spiritual matters because, as I have often said, God does not jump through hoops for repeatable experiments as if it were some sort of lab rat, and repeatable, verifiable experiments are the bread and butter of science.
So, while technology may be able to capture the occasional bit of evidence, science as a whole will never be able to provide proof, and note that evidence and proof are two different things.
I think it would actually be counter-productive to provide proof of spiritual matters, because then a crucial element - faith - would be destroyed by proof. faith can move mountains, but proof can only move the hearts of skeptics, and those heart might not be supposed to be moved anyhow.
Therefore, faith is superior to proof, and should be sought all the more than it.
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One question:
When did this "perfect" come?
The tongues of fire came after Jesus was dead and buried, and risen.
The Bible tells us to seek the gift of prophecy above all the others.
If perfection had come, then there'd be no need for these instructions, or the need to "desire or seek after" any of the gifts.
There is a major logical fallacy to what's been said about "perfection" having already come.....and gone, according to this ideology.
Which means there are many sections of the new Testament that no longer apply.
All the instructions on tongues and seeking the gift of prophecy no longer apply, if one follows this logic. That's taking out parts of the Bible. Imo
If I can cast out demons by speaking in tongues, and if the devil can't cast out the devil (a demon can't cast out another demon. This is what Jesus was accused of), then I ask....
Who's casting the demons out through me, through the "tongues of fire?"
It's a rhetorical question.
Satan can't cast out Satan.
I, myself, since authoring this thread, have cast out demons....by speaking in tongues.
So, if it's "witchcraft" that I'm using, and witchcraft that I hate and am fighting against....how is tht working?
Because the tongues of fire are still with us.....for this very reason.
Yes....people can fake speaking in dead languages. Any idiot can learn to fake it.The devil can and will do that without any hesitation. Especially of its a gift that can cast his minions out. This is why tongues has the most confusion behind it.
But....no one can "learn" a gift from God. It is given....not earned. Otherwise it wouldn't be a gift. That's like Simon the magician trying to buy the gift of the Holy Spirit.
And you can't just take out parts of the Bible. The Bible ends with every curse within its pages to fall on anyone who takes out anything from God's Word.
Perfection hasn't come.....yet. when all these lies are cast into that abyss, along with all these demons and evil spirits and blasphemers, after they are all tossed into that eternal fire, and completely gone from this existence....then perfection is here. And the Son of God will rule over us. Then, "perfection" will be here.
Seek afters God's gifts. The flesh is of no use at all.
This, unfortunately is something that can be argued till we're all blue in the face.
Most Christians don't even understand blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The church should of been teaching this all along. But, most have never even heard of this.
There's a good reason for that. It's by design.
Jesus was doing something good when he was casting that demon out. Something the Pharisees couldn't do themselves, because they had no authority over the spirits. So, instead of seeing it for the good He was doing, they called it evil. Said he had a demon. They were calling something that was good, and came from God, something evil that came from the devil.
Sound familiar?
Beware the leaven of the Pharisees.
The leaven Jesus was speaking of has already leavened the whole lump.
And people have pushed the Holy Spirit out. Along with any gift that might lead to the Truth.
Like I said, with where we are in time, with all this knowledge we supposedly posses, all of these accomplishments through science and medicine and computing speeds, you'd think we wouldn't be confused about something that people weren't confused about back when the Bible was being written.
It's like we've gotten dumber, as we've gotten smarter, somehow.
Lies built on top of lies.
Demons and evil spirits have the world as their playground.
We're the merry go rounds.
I wonder if someone like Rothschild is an actual demon in human form.
I wonder that about TPTB...
They live.
We sleep.
We sleep.