(10-28-2023, 12:51 AM)Ninurta Wrote: I'm a simple man, with a simple mind. Because of that, I believe resisting the temptation to overcomplicate things is the path forward, for me at least.This is perfect. I was hoping to be challenged some, and Ninurta hit it with a good shot.
I don't care to categorize demons or angels for that matter. They're all just "spirits" to me. I also don't care to dig too deeply into occult matters or symbolism. They all have a single source, and that's enough for me.
It's because I have a simple mind.
There are people in this world, and their numbers are increasing, that see every negative event as a "demonic possession", but I believe most of them are not. I think that increase in demonology and like subjects is a function of people being bombarded with the subject, since at least the days of "The Exorcist" and "The Amityville Horror" being foisted on unsuspecting audiences. It's an attempt at misdirection, leading the attention away from basics and along unproductive paths. That is the sort of thing that would be aimed at the most productive minds, in an effort to reduce their effectiveness by leading them down a garden path.
If "possession" is the dwelling of a spirit within a human body, then we are all "possessed", most generally by ourselves, our own spirits. What people are seeing as "possession" is the takeover of a human by an evil spirit, and that is exceedingly rare. What is more generally happening is the external influences of evil targeting an individual's own psyche, The spirit is not "taking them over" per se, it's poking and prodding them to go to dark places on their own, and only gives the appearance of a "takeover".
They will sit, and watch, and find the weak points in a person's armor to concentrate upon. Through a combination of psychological attacks, they will assault those weak points until a person starts thinking the bad ideas were their own... but they were not. They were excited by an external influence, rather than a "takeover" as it appears.
A case in point is this current mass shooter who, as of this writing, is still on the run. There has been much made of the fact that he "heard voices", but less well known is that he started hearing these voices at the time when he was given a new sort of hearing aid. The voices he was hearing were not reported as disembodied voices - he thought they were people around him talking trash about him.
And he heard them through his new hearing aid, thinking that it was just working well enough that he could actually hear the people around him better.
It appears to me that his weak point that was concentrated on was his ego. Whomever generated the voices, be they spirit or human, concentrated those voices on his weak points, and kept hammering him with them to the point that he was pushed over the edge, believing he was actually hearing the opinions of real people around him, rather than transmitted or disembodied "voices".
The haranguing kept up until he acted on it, shooting the folks en masse whom he thought were denigrating him.
It could have been "spirits", or it could have been some human agent(s) just transmitting psychological warfare into his NEW hearing aids to fool him into thinking the entire world was against him... a technological rather than a spiritual solution to their experiment.
Either way, it's not an actual "possession" where someone else takes over, it was external pressures against this weak points to make him snap.
And I believe that is the way of what most folks think of as "Possession". It's nothing of the sort, it is just external forces turning an individual against himself, against his own better judgement.
Actual "possession" is extremely rare, although it does happen. I believe that it cannot happen to someone who has already been infused with a "good spirit", what some Christians call "the indwelling of the Holy Spirit". It can't happen because there is no room for the evil spirit to move in,and on top of that the Bible tells us that "God is a jealous God" - pretty sure God is able to man the fort and prevent a takeover of what God already owns.
That doesn't mean that external forces cannot still work on a person's own weak points, whether those forces be spiritual or temporal, and turn them against their own better judgement... but it's still not an actual "possession".
I have heard "voices" twice in my life, but none of them tried to get me to do dumb, evil shit. If they had, my reaction would lost likely have been "Disembodied Voice, if you want that done the pick up the instrument in your own hands and do it your damned self, 'cause I'm having no part of it. Now leave."
I still remember to this day what those voices said, and it has often been a comfort to me in times of trials.
I have also heard "whispers", some recently, but never clearly enough to understand what they or saying, much less to be given orders to do dumb stuff by them. To be honest, I've never been interested enough in what they're saying to investigate and clarify it. I just don't care what they are saying - if they wanted to talk to me, they'd do it loudly enough for me to hear... but they won't do that, because they already know I'd tell them to go pound salt if it were untoward things against my basic character.
That's just my theory, the way I see things. You're mileage may vary, and it's ok if it does. I'm not the Answer Man, nor do I have any illusions that I am. It's just the working theory of how I approach life, both seen and unseeable.
A fantastic explanation, but let Mr take a guess here. You're a completely logical type thinker. A "nuts and bolts" type mind.
Am I right? Lol
I could peg that (assuming I'm right) because that is almost dead on of a response that I get from all left hemisphere minds. But, Ninurta, you have an open mind about though. Enough to know it's all there, but like you said, don't give it much more thought than that.
And that is vital in the balance of thought to have those minds to keep our right hemisphere minds somewhat close to earth.
So, thank you for your addition. I really liked the way you described the influence aspect of it VS an actual "possession." The way you described it was Spot on in my book.
(10-28-2023, 12:44 AM)78Caver Wrote: This might clear a few things up about Demons. Dr. Michael Heiser is a old testament biblical scholar, written books both "The Unseen Realm", "Demons", "Supernatural" & others. By using the Dead Sea scrolls, the Hebrew Bible, Greek Bible, plus other sources. He reframes what we think we know about scripture to what it really says and why.Great vantage point!
As "Moderns" we are so far out in left field it's laughable. Heiser has a mess of fascinating YT's that cover's a stunning amount of biblical material.
Start @ 11:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw3Tu3QjWuk&t=956s
I appreciate the material. I was finding it hard to find anything that wasn't a Disney version of it all. I'm looking to move on from all of this soon. I need to get back to the "Red Letters" mindset again. This has actually dragged me down a good bit, but my purpose was to try and understand so I could help someone I knew needed the help.
Thanks again.