(10-22-2023, 02:50 AM)Ninurta Wrote:(10-22-2023, 12:29 AM)putnam6 Wrote: Hey, Gortex good to see you here...
Wasn't the original "official" portrayal the missile hit the hospital directly it was destroyed and there were 500 deaths of innocent Gazans?
I say this with the complete realization that the proportionality here is out of whack , while understanding Israel is still getting attacked for Hezbollah and elsewhere as well as launches from within Gaza. All the while only 2 hostages have been released.
You can't hold innocent civilians while shooting missiles and attacking on all sides and expect Israel to stand down. It can't be shown that anybody gets a reprieve when you kidnap and take civilians hostage. Again I don't agree with the proportionality but I understand where this has put Israel at.
What I don't understand are all the calls for "proportionality". War is not a proportional game, it's a game you play to win. Proportionality is what you do when you want to drag it out forever, maybe in a bid to get more arms dealer contracts.
On a personal scale, proportionality has never been a factor in any of my fights. I use whatever resources are available to obliterate the enemy, and I keep on obliterating them until I'm happy with the results - I don't stop just because they holler "uncle!" - that only teaches them that they can kick me and then holler "uncle!" to keep from getting kicked right back.
Anyone big enough to jump me or kill off my family is also big enough to take the consequences - which involves their own obliteration, the obliteration of all of their relatives, all of their friends and/or followers, all of their dogs and cats, and their house, their car, and maybe even their workplace if I've been put into a particularly foul mood.
That not only sends a message that I am displeased with their actions, but also that I will retaliate as overwhelmingly as I possibly can.
"Proportionality" is only there to keep arms merchants in business. Once you have obliterated the enemy, there is no longer any reason to fight, and the arms merchant's kids go hungry and have to wear hand me downs - boo fuckin' hoo! They should diversify into construction if they want to keep working.
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Trying to be diplomatic here, I only use proportionality as it's the buzzword most often heard from those completely behind Palestinians.
For the record, I get it on some levels but understand Israel's responsibilities here more so. They were left with very little choice and a weaker response at the very least would likely lead to the same tactics from Hamas and other groups who want them eliminated.
Don't get me started about the MIC, I loathe the influence they have within our government
Im a big proponent of Eisenhower. I have no problem believing he was the last totally uncompromised President the US has had. But I digress
(10-22-2023, 03:10 AM)Grace Wrote:(10-22-2023, 02:50 AM)Ninurta Wrote:(10-22-2023, 12:29 AM)putnam6 Wrote: Hey, Gortex good to see you here...
Wasn't the original "official" portrayal the missile hit the hospital directly it was destroyed and there were 500 deaths of innocent Gazans?
I say this with the complete realization that the proportionality here is out of whack , while understanding Israel is still getting attacked for Hezbollah and elsewhere as well as launches from within Gaza. All the while only 2 hostages have been released.
You can't hold innocent civilians while shooting missiles and attacking on all sides and expect Israel to stand down. It can't be shown that anybody gets a reprieve when you kidnap and take civilians hostage. Again I don't agree with the proportionality but I understand where this has put Israel at.
What I don't understand are all the calls for "proportionality". War is not a proportional game, it's a game you play to win. Proportionality is what you do when you want to drag it out forever, maybe in a bid to get more arms dealer contracts.
On a personal scale, proportionality has never been a factor in any of my fights. I use whatever resources are available to obliterate the enemy, and I keep on obliterating them until I'm happy with the results - I don't stop just because they holler "uncle!" - that only teaches them that they can kick me and then holler "uncle!" to keep from getting kicked right back.
Anyone big enough to jump me or kill off my family is also big enough to take the consequences - which involves their own obliteration, the obliteration of all of their relatives, all of their friends and/or followers, all of their dogs and cats, and their house, their car, and maybe even their workplace if I've been put into a particularly foul mood.
That not only sends a message that I am displeased with their actions, but also that I will retaliate as overwhelmingly as I possibly can.
"Proportionality" is only there to keep arms merchants in business. Once you have obliterated the enemy, there is no longer any reason to fight, and the arms merchant's kids go hungry and have to wear hand me downs - boo fuckin' hoo! They should diversify into construction if they want to keep working.
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I think the people calling for "proportionality" imagine war as some kind of tit for tat instead of a means of exacting justice. It's very childish thinking in my opinion that has no understanding of what justice actually means.
A justice which, in this case, would be to remove Hamas from power, both for the Israeli's and for the Palestinians. It's not like Hamas cares a whit about Palestinian lives or well-being any more than they care about Israelis.
https://youtu.be/nMCC2ihCowg?si=AztMSi9z3G6vdJPX
Like my reply to Ninurta I use proportionality because it's the buzzword I see everywhere. If we are going to change minds we need to approach the discussion atleast acknowledging their concerns.
Fully aware "war is hell" I was bothered by the brutality of the "Highway of Death" too but it didn't mean I didn't understand the reasons for doing the job so thoroughly.
Israel is faced with an infinitely more immediate and dangerous threat.
That said I just don't want to see this escalate and Im aware that's exactly what Hamas and other Arab factions want.