Why Do Conservatives Fall For Fake News?

[Freija]

Oh, this is too good and so completely applicable to some of you here. I urge you to suffer through the video, speed it up if you have to and if you're self-aware enough, see if some of you fine folks aren't exactly as she describes? Don't worry though, she points out the same behavior for those on the far left.

[Ninurta]

Oh, this is too good and so completely applicable to some of you here. I urge you to suffer through the video, speed it up if you have to and if you're self-aware enough, see if some of you fine folks aren't exactly as she describes? Don't worry though, she points out the same behavior for those on the far left.

Question: Why Do Conservatives Fall For Fake News?

Answer: Probably for the same reason Liberals and Progressives do - a lot of folks, in general, are as dumb as a box of rocks on a hog's ass.

Case in point - the lady in the video refers to what happened on Jan 6 as an "insurrection". That's just dumb as hell. I assure you, actual insurrections look a lot different than that. Folks who have had enough start snatching up arms and variously shooting, stabbing, and generally beating the shit out of politicians before they start hanging them from lamp posts. I note with some humor, and more than a little irony, that no politicians were harmed in the production of that video.

So, no insurrection.

At best it was a protest, and at worst a riot. There was no insurrection.

So now you know that being an idiot for "fake news" is not confined to Conservatives.

.

[Infolurker]

I was going to point out, what specifically was disinformation that was posted?

Was the Covid did not and could not come from the Wuhan Lab and it had to be natural disinformation? LOL

If you take the MRNA shot you will not get or transmit covid? LOL

Steele Dossier was real? LOL

Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian Disinformation? LOL

Biden does not have dementia? LOL

2020 was the most fair and honest election ever... Oh boy, let me count the discrepancies or better yet the falsified mail in ballots. 


I mean really, when it comes to disinformation and bullshit, the MSM IS the main pusher of disinformation! Worse yet, they want to censor anyone disputing their bullshit or calling out them "burying or not reporting" on stories at all if it goes against the DNC agenda.

You say Conservatives are falling for fake news..... please describe what fake news say I am falling for?


Here, this will generally prove the point, your video presenter fits in here:

https://www.tiktok.com/@commandmentx1/vi...9062788398

[Ninurta]

I mean really, when it comes to disinformation and bullshit, the MSM IS the main pusher of disinformation! Worse yet, they want to censor anyone disputing their bullshit or calling out them "burying or not reporting" on stories at all if it goes against the DNC agenda.

You say Conservatives are falling for fake news..... please describe what fake news say I am falling for?


Here, this will generally prove the point, your video presenter fits in here:

https://www.tiktok.com/@commandmentx1/vi...9062788398

I'm ok with stuff being "dangerous to democracy" Matter of fact, thinking people ARE dangerous to democracy, as they should be - independent thought is in mortal opposition to the Hive Mind represented in democracy. I've seen just a little too much of what mobs will do to anything in their path to think that the Mob Rule represented by democracy can ever be a good thing.

I don't see anything wrong with a Republic. Democracies are dangerous to their own citizenry, as monarchies and dictatorships also can be. That sentiment has been around the US for a long time - it was Jefferson, I believe, who once said "a democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what is for supper".

Democracies are dangerous because the Hive Mind of 51% of a population can be easily swayed via modern propaganda techniques (as shown in your video) to vote for the elimination of the other 49% of a population. They do not allow for the exercise of individuality and they do not protect the rights of minorities and individuals as republics do. Socialism is just Communism Lite, and Democracy is just Socialism Lite.

Mob Rule, in by any name, can never, ever be a good thing.

So I'm good with stuff that is "dangerous to democracy".

.

[xuenchen]

Now that The SCOTUS has ruled college admissions racism is unconstitutional (illegal), let's see how many "Conservatives" and "Liberals" never knew colleges were practicing open racism. 
And let's see how many "Conservatives" and "Liberals" will now STILL be in favor of college racism. 

All will be based on the MSM-Democrat propaganda messaging and rigged polling and mental case reporters and celebrities 

[dbcowboy]

Oh, this is too good and so completely applicable to some of you here. I urge you to suffer through the video, speed it up if you have to and if you're self-aware enough, see if some of you fine folks aren't exactly as she describes? Don't worry though, she points out the same behavior for those on the far left.

Steele Dossier.

[Freija]

If you got hung up on some of the words used and didn’t watch the whole thing or blew it off as some progressive leftwing nonsense, why am I not surprised? The truth hurts.

Clearly though, some of the points and behaviors outlined in the video are absolutely and directly applicable to some of our members here that are quick to parrot salacious or highly questionable right-wing media stories, rumors, conspiracies and conjecture without taking the time to vet whether they are accurate or not or present the proper backstory or context for them to be seen as anything other than partisan propaganda hence virtue signaling their affiliation for those on their ‘side” in order to promote their social standing within the group. Frankly, it is pretty lame.

More times often than not, most of these posts are focused on negativity, doom and division and do nothing but add to the chaos and outrage and are posted simply to fuel manufactured culture wars you’ve blindly been manipulated into being soldiers for by somehow believing you are morally superior or righteously just in thinking you’re smarter than everyone else and somehow able to see behind the veil because crackpot theories and conspiracies occasionally do turn out to have some degree of veracity therefore they all must be true and unquestioned.

Of course, these behaviors can also befall those on the far left as well, which the video did point out, but here at good ol’ Rogue Nation (and at ATS), this doesn’t happen very often and when it does, it is quickly dogpiled and torn to shreds and the person posting is branded as a brain dead liberal leftist lunatic that can’t think beyond what the MSM feeds them even if they are just trying to point out that usually there is more than one side of a story or that information is missing or obfuscated to the detriment of critical unbiased thinking.

I understand whose house I am in here and the sway of this community to the right and further right but I have been here long enough to hope, even if perhaps foolishly, that we might maintain some degree of intelligence, balance and objectivity without falling into the category of just another partisan internet filter bubble.

[Infolurker]

Let's go with that.... "Culture Wars"

Well, I like the 2nd amendment, the Democrats and the MSM push "gun control" on the citizens and NOT the criminals so thus I am against the Democrats and the MSM branch of the DNC.

I despise Censorship to "shut down" the opposition. The Democrats have been trying to do that since the 1990's and probably before that by bogusly trying to use the old "fairness Doctrine" to shut down talk radio. Now they are trying to silence any public decent on social media as it cannot be simply controlled like the MSM mouthpieces. 

https://reason.com/2021/02/19/the-fairne...ughs-rage/

Similarly, Public speaking and events are swarmed with Left Wing protesters inciting threats, chasing people out of venues, shouting them down.... yet, one street preacher can say the work "GOD" and is arrested. Lawless double standard applauded by the left and there are too many examples of this to be able to deny.

Democrats are Lawless... look at our cities, they refuse to prosecute criminals and lately have been releasing them with little or no bail so that they can continue to commit crimes. 

A Tiny Number of Shoplifters Commit Thousands of New York City Thefts

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/15/nyreg...s-nyc.html

Nearly a third of all shoplifting arrests in the city last year involved just 327 people, the police said. Businesses say they have little defense.


Democrats are Lawless: Immigration Law, Sanctuary Cities. Blatant violations of established Federal Law. Democrats ONLY enforce laws they agree with instead of performing the necessary actions in congress to abolish or modify current laws.

Corruption, pay to play, donate to my foundation, trust or library or no audience with Madam Secretary or The Vice President / President. Massive amounts of foreign money donated for "favors". This surely happens on the Republican side as well but nothing to the scale of these two. Open Corruption.

In 2013, 10 years ago, 9 states had legalized gay marriage and the supreme court was beginning to hear arguments. Flash, 10 years later we are wresting with activist for our children in schools. Lawsuits flying left and right. Pornographic books given to kids (Don't make me link them because they are graphic) and some with instructions on how to make their own GRINDR account's, and using federal funds for Drag Shows. Why?

Why are they not providing shows for the elderly in nursing homes? Why underage children? Nobody gave 2 shits about Drag Queens, Trans people or Gay Prides until the "child grooming" became public. 

What is the obsession with getting to the children in a captive environment of the public schools? Why?

These ARE topics that need to be discussed and not "Censored" as disinformation or bullshit "Hate speech" as anything the left does not like is Hate Speech. 

So tell me what I am wrong about so I can link video evidence or pictures from the pornographic kid books, or videos of the shoutdowns on campus, graphic drag performances, or arrests of preachers simply talking as well as Shout downs, chasing down speakers, threatening violence, any number of crime stories and corrupt DAs, or maybe gun control stories. Everything above is absolute truth and can be sourced and proven.

What is wrong about discussing such things? 

[dbcowboy]

 

I understand whose house I am in here and the sway of this community to the right and further right but I have been here long enough to hope, even if perhaps foolishly, that we might maintain some degree of intelligence, balance and objectivity without falling into the category of just another partisan internet filter bubble.

Where have we, or I been in the wrong about anything?

Biden has opened the border, raised taxes, caused inflation.

Trump was no angel but by the gods he was a damned sight better than anything the left has put forward.

I'm pro-Constitution.  Pro freedom.

Anyone who disagrees with me would have to be against freedom and the Constitution, n'est-ce pas?

[Freija]

And there we have it folks, two perfect examples of how quickly things devolve into the left vs. right, Republican vs. Democrat paradigm.

But muh guns...Biden...save the chllens, groomers and the same old song and dance as usual. I swear, some of you folks are so worked up over things you can't control or influence you're heading for heart attacks and an early grave.

Try taking a break once and a while and focus on your own lives and families or get a hobby other than ranting on the internet. You just might discover life isn't so bad after all and you might even learn to occasionally be happy or experience joy?

[Ninurta]

If you got hung up on some of the words used and didn’t watch the whole thing or blew it off as some progressive leftwing nonsense, why am I not surprised? The truth hurts.

Truth does not hurt. it doesn't tickle, either. it just is, If truth "hurts" someone, they are probably looking at something that isn't very truthful, despite their assumptions to the contrary. If it hurts, that just means that what they're looking at does not agree with facts on the ground, and they've got to jump through some hoops to make it make sense.

But yeah, I DO get hung up on words. Words have meaning, or else they are just someone pushing air around, with no meaning. Just the sound of wind blowing. There is not much that irritates me more than folks trying to redefine words to mean what they wish they meant instead of what they actually mean, all just to score political points and to try to shut down their opposition by revoking the common vocabulary. If Jan 6 was an "insurrection", then they need to revisit all those urban bonfires of the previous two years, and refer to them as "mostly peaceful insurrections". Protest is not insurrection, no matter how badly Progressives wish it was.

Clearly though, some of the points and behaviors outlined in the video are absolutely and directly applicable to some of our members here that are quick to parrot salacious or highly questionable right-wing media stories, rumors, conspiracies and conjecture without taking the time to vet whether they are accurate or not or present the proper backstory or context for them to be seen as anything other than partisan propaganda hence virtue signaling their affiliation for those on their ‘side” in order to promote their social standing within the group. Frankly, it is pretty lame.

I can't argue with that, but I will. First of all, I'd hesitate to label highly questionable stories as "Right-wing", since I've also seen plenty of them fly forth from the Left. That's not to say that the Right doesn't do it, too - because they do - but it's not exclusive to them, and trying to paint it as such is at best disingenuous, and at worst blatant propaganda generation.

Also, while it does happen here, from both the Right and the Left, it's not limited to here. I saw it on lots of social media sites, all across the net-scape. It's endemic, all over. It pisses me off more when the Right does it, true, because I hold the Right to higher standards of decency, objectivity, and accuracy than the left, because I know the Left is just not as capable in those areas in general. Some few are, most are not, and it irritates me to see the Right following that pied piper as well.

Partisan propaganda does fly from the Right, but the Left is not blameless in that regard, either. Whenever I see it happening, I call it out, no matter what side it's on. Everything you've said is true of the Right, but it is also true of the Left, and focusing ire on one side, while letting the other slide on a free pass is not healthy for anyone, or society in general. it shuts down discussions that probably need to be had, and has a chilling effect on free speech. Whichever side does it is, in effect, trying to shut down other opinions, and that is never healthy for productive discourse.

More times often than not, most of these posts are focused on negativity, doom and division and do nothing but add to the chaos and outrage and are posted simply to fuel manufactured culture wars you’ve blindly been manipulated into being soldiers for by somehow believing you are morally superior or righteously just in thinking you’re smarter than everyone else and somehow able to see behind the veil because crackpot theories and conspiracies occasionally do turn out to have some degree of veracity therefore they all must be true and unquestioned.

Thank you for that. it's exactly the description that I have always applied to the Left. Exactly., word for word. However, anyone that only sees it in their opposition, including myself, is part of the problem, not part of any solution. What you have done here is to point out that it's applicable to both sides of the argument. I think most Right-wingers reading that will think "gee, she just described the Left, and is trying to project it's failings onto the Right!" But that, strictly speaking, is not true. it's just that partisans are gonna partisan, whatever side of the divide they fall on. A well-rounded person should be able to see it on their own side as well as the other, and call it out wherever it springs from.

Of course, these behaviors can also befall those on the far left as well, which the video did point out, but here at good ol’ Rogue Nation (and at ATS), this doesn’t happen very often and when it does, it is quickly dogpiled and torn to shreds and the person posting is branded as a brain dead liberal leftist lunatic that can’t think beyond what the MSM feeds them even if they are just trying to point out that usually there is more than one side of a story or that information is missing or obfuscated to the detriment of critical unbiased thinking.

Yes, she did point that out, in passing, but then went back immediately to trying to shred her political opposition rather than trying to clean up her own house first. Where is her feigned outrage when her own side does it? Nowhere to be found. they get a pass while she goes back to trying to light her opponent's houses on fire. That makes her not a "warrior for justice", but rahther just another dime-a-dozen political hack.

I understand whose house I am in here and the sway of this community to the right and further right but I have been here long enough to hope, even if perhaps foolishly, that we might maintain some degree of intelligence, balance and objectivity without falling into the category of just another partisan internet filter bubble.

I don't think you DO realize whose house you are in - you're in YOUR OWN house, as well as mine. You'll notice, perhaps, that I've never, EVER, made any move to show you or anyone else the door. You don't kick folks out of their own house, y'know? Matter of fact, the only person I've EVER banned was a flamin' RIGHT-winger whose mouth overshot his ass. When he stopped thinking but continued talking, it was time to go. I tried to give him a time out first, but he wasn't having any of that and just kept yappin', then started yappin' at ME, and, well, that was all she wrote. Like I said earlier, I hold the Right to a higher standard of decorum, and he utterly failed to meet even the first tenet of it.

You're as welcome here as any of us. Sit down, prop up your feet, and if you ask real nice I'll be the one to go fetch the next round of beers in the discussion.

.

[dbcowboy]

And there we have it folks, two perfect examples of how quickly things devolve into the left vs. right, Republican vs. Democrat paradigm.

But muh guns...Biden...save the chllens, groomers and the same old song and dance as usual. I swear, some of you folks are so worked up over things you can't control or influence you're heading for heart attacks and an early grave.

Try taking a break once and a while and focus on your own lives and families or get a hobby other than ranting on the internet. You just might discover life isn't so bad after all and you might even learn to occasionally be happy or experience joy?

And yet, no riposte for the examples I provided.

Why don't you just settle down and agree that I am right and you are wrong.

Ummmm, isn't that what you're trying to do?

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

Why the baiting? It's obvious people have different opinions. I generally just scroll on. Just the thread title implies contempt and a superiority complex, I see the opposite side do it too. To be honest both viewpoints are missing the big picture: MSM government approved propaganda has people divided and at each others throats by design. 

Our own governments are feeding the talking points to both sides, conservative AND liberal. Both wings belong to the same dirty damned bird. And yet everybody is drinking the poisoned koolaid and literally begging for more. 

I don't give a fat fuck what people do in their bedrooms. What is between consenting adults is their own business. But I side with conservatives on this: Keep the details of your sex life out of children's ears and keep your naked, adult bodies away from children- and for fuck's sake don't be simulating or outright performing any sex acts anywhere there are children!  Stop stealing the innocence of children and let them enjoy it before adult life rips it away from them!

[Snarl]

If you got hung up ... and didn’t watch the whole thing ... ? The truth hurts.

If there was truth there, I didn't get to it. That's a 30 minute video ... and within the first minute or so I saw it delve into politics. You can be more precise on what you want me to watch. Give me a timestamp and how long to watch to see the points you're trying to score on.

Please.

[Ninurta]

If you got hung up ... and didn’t watch the whole thing ... ? The truth hurts.

If there was truth there, I didn't get to it. That's a 30 minute video ... and within the first minute or so I saw it delve into politics. You can be more precise on what you want me to watch. Give me a timestamp and how long to watch to see the points you're trying to score on.

Please.

The entire video wasn't just delving into politics, it was a political hack job. It was a half hour rant of "hurray for me and to hell with you, because I'm right and you're wrong". The presenter was the female Left-wing equivalent of Donald Trump, and just about as factual as his "mean tweets". It would have been hilarious that she herself was oblivious to that, if it wasn't such a sad commentary on what passes for the public discourse these days.

She did make some good points in passing - "it's done by the left too, but ever so slightly and rarely... now lets get back to bashing the Right, because that political divide ain't gonna widen itself" and "This has been getting set up for a long time, and it is creating a political divide", which is objectively true... but she appears to not be able to see that she herself has bought into it, swallowed the propaganda from her side hook, line, and sinker, and is now doing her part to try to exacerbate and widen that political chasm between the opposing sides.

It's entirely unnecessary. I mean, I'm just to the Right of Attila the Hun, so far Right that I damned near wrap back around to the Left, yet I was able to sit down with a card-carrying, dyed in the wool Communist, and over a few days we hashed out a political system where I could get what I wanted, he could get what he wanted, and yet the nation could remain whole and undivided. If we could do that, then all this horse-shit, tit-for-tat political slap-fighting is just fuckin' ridiculous. It's just political theater meant not to solve any goddamned thing at all, just keep the masses entertained and at one another's throats for a distraction from what it really about to hit us ALL, both Left and Right.

.

[Infolurker]

Hell, I know half the right wing sources are BS. One of reasons I don't post bitchute videos with chiropractors talking about vaccine causes of deaths or Infowars crap 

I generally validate what I post with corroborating stories, videos, or picture proof whenever possible. Some stories you cannot find a MSM other than maybe Fox source because they don't report on it. When they do days or months later, it is with some sorry defense of their political ally (person or group) for damage control maybe, if they have to. 

Where would we hear about Hunter Biden corruption, laptop videos, the hookers, the drugs, the shakedowns? ABC and CNN sure as hell are not going to tell you other than to say it is a "Russian Fake / Disinformation" which they did until it was impossible to cover that crap up any longer and now 2 years later will they even acknowledge that yes, it is real, yes, there were bribes / payoffs / shakedowns, and even then they try to justify it as "immoral but legal".

For a few years we kept hearing Hospitals are not doing surgeries on minors, it is all right wing propaganda, right wing lies... Right Wing Myths. 

Guess what, no it wasn't, some had publicly put it on their websites, others like Vanderbilt were cold hard busted on video telling their doctors to get with the program and that this is happening and how much money they were making off of it. California Kaiser Permanente is being sued by girls (now adults) that had their breasts removed at 13, and 15 years old years ago.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...wsuit.html

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/artic...801484.php

Reuters finally did a story based on insurance claims and again proved, yes, it is happening. Now would we EVER hear about it if not for "right wing" sources? I think not

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/spe...youth-data

The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket..

What I am relaying is that we just cannot use MSM sources as a basis of truth because they are as incorrect or omit facts and truth as much or more than these "right wing" sources that have an uncanny ability to be correct most of the time. 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xWc2ZqLerhM

So, not sure if it is the story itself, that it is true even when the MSM tries to lie or omit, or the belief that it shouldn't be seen and exposed?

It is not misinformation or disinformation if it is proven true. At least not in my worldview.

[Ninurta]

It is not misinformation or disinformation if it is proven true. At least not in my worldview.

Not all propaganda is a lie. the best of it is based on truth, so that it cannot be falsified. The problems come in when things are added or left out to create a political spin, and then it is disseminated to the masses in that packaging to ramp up emotion and ire, and keep us slappin' at one another so we don't have time to look at the Little Man Behind the Curtain to see what he is up to and has in store for us all.

.

[Snarl]

If you got hung up ... and didn’t watch the whole thing ... ? The truth hurts.

That's a 30 minute video ... and within the first minute or so I saw it delve into politics.

It's just political theater meant not to solve any goddamned thing at all, just keep the masses entertained and at one another's throats for a distraction from what it really about to hit us ALL, both Left and Right.

@"NightskyeB4Dawn"#10 hit a nail on the head earlier in another thread. It's the elite's game. Only the rich matter in this society if one cares about money or politics or society. I only care about what I'm doing on my own property and to Hell with anyone who would oppose that.

I sure hope I live in a place where I'll never waste ammo on 'bullet sponges'. Geographically I feel safe. I made an honest assessment of my situation when I hurt my back a few weeks ago. I'm 99% sure I could hold-out here and keep on keeping on unless attacked by a professional force. Again, am 99% sure I can overcome even a grid failure at this point. Might lose Internet is all ... and I'd hardly miss it if I did.

The Left and Right, to me, resemble the first and second strings of a team. A team we're not on, and likely never will be, at our age. I'd gladly torture the Hell out of any of 'em (or their minions) if SHTF. Best they stay as far away from flyover country as possible. -chuckle-

[Freija]

All I am going to add at this time is you try being at ground zero in a manufactured culture war and see how easy it is to recognize those that are not your friends and would rather you didn’t exist or speak. It is hard not to be a bit uppity and want to lash out or feel that even those who may be nice to your face usually secretly despise what you are and as much as I detest today’s partisan sideism, it isn’t hard to know what side my bread is buttered on and it isn’t for goddamned sure the Republican party.

Imagine now amid relative peace and calm and a place I could come to without having to constantly defend against the tactics and propaganda of this war which in most cases are based on lies, dis/misinformation, ignorance and willful ignorance and how it now feels to have that degree of relative tranquility shattered by refugees carrying forth with the same agenda that caused their ousting in other places gives me a great deal of grief because I know how entrenched and closed-minded they are in their self-righteous ideology fueled by rightwing talking heads and circle-jerking accolades from their comrades and I know when the bullshit flies I will have to respond and I have better things to do with my life.

As I see it, my choices are to take a break, ignore it all and let things devolve as they clearly will or metaphorically load my spare magazines and chamber a round and gleefully join the shitshow which would be pretty dumb when I’m outnumbered by those that insist on winning at all cost in a game they’ve been herded into playing like literal sheep.

I’m too old for this shit.

[quintessentone]

All I am going to add at this time is you try being at ground zero in a manufactured culture war and see how easy it is to recognize those that are not your friends and would rather you didn’t exist or speak. It is hard not to be a bit uppity and want to lash out or feel that even those who may be nice to your face usually secretly despise what you are and as much as I detest today’s partisan sideism, it isn’t hard to know what side my bread is buttered on and it isn’t for goddamned sure the Republican party.

Imagine now amid relative peace and calm and a place I could come to without having to constantly defend against the tactics and propaganda of this war which in most cases are based on lies, dis/misinformation, ignorance and willful ignorance and how it now feels to have that degree of relative tranquility shattered by refugees carrying forth with the same agenda that caused their ousting in other places gives me a great deal of grief because I know how entrenched and closed-minded they are in their self-righteous ideology fueled by rightwing talking heads and circle-jerking accolades from their comrades and I know when the bullshit flies I will have to respond and I have better things to do with my life.

As I see it, my choices are to take a break, ignore it all and let things devolve as they clearly will or metaphorically load my spare magazines and chamber a round and gleefully join the shitshow which would be pretty dumb when I’m outnumbered by those that insist on winning at all cost in a game they’ve been herded into playing like literal sheep.

I’m too old for this shit.

You don't come off as uppity to me, but I have noticed at the other site psychological intimidation tactics such as labelling someone using a negative term/word such as that is really an attempt to manipulate and intimidate when their political spin or their twisting the facts or them leaving out other truths is called out.

Rather you come off as a warrior standing up for what you know to be your truth. Those than don't walk in your shoes do not know your truth and most here and the other site have no interest or unable to objectively open their mind to other people's certain realities and truths in life, but I am trying to listen and understand.

I'll stick with the science and watch what happens in the courtrooms because there we get more than an inkling of what is empirical evidence and societal truth, or at least what the majority of society deems equitable (jury of one's peers) and where the science holds truth, and from this position we can then know better where the culture/religious/political wars are heading.