Quote:[b]To The Woods[/b]
Bugging out is usually assumed to mean “to the woods” where survivors, patriots, militia, end-timers and others will be making “their last stand” (apparently together, whether they like it or not) while roasting hotdogs and marshmallows.  Instead, it will be the last man standing over a pile of rotted and half-eaten[i]corpses[/i], since the food and supplies and the notions of ‘living off the land’ will have died out with the last slaughtered deer to be found. And every ’survivor’ will have been hoping all along that nobody has turned them in for poaching.

Campsites, caves and hidey-holes will have become armed, dirty and infested encampments of hungry and desperate men (the surviving women would have long since been forced into prostitution and slavery), all fighting over the remaining scraps to be found (and newcomers showing up) necessary for their survival. Informants, traitors, thieves, murderers, rapists and thugs will quickly become the defining characteristic, with the strongest ruling (or eating) the weak.  Those who arrive “first” will potentially be better prepared to prey upon the late-comers or the weak, so if you are still planning on trying this, get your seat at the table [i]early[/i].

Think not? This is exactly what happens during civil wars and internal conflicts when a country turns against itself. The war in Bosnia saw tens of thousands of murders, rapes and thefts as the people turned on each other.  It was a fight for survival, for food, for weapons, for money, for women.

It has happened all over the world, and it will happen again. Whenever there is not enough to go around, and whenever there is strife, secrecy and conflict, those involved will resort to whatever methods of survival that they have to in order that they might live another day by whatever means possible.  It will be no picnic, no romantic “retreat into the woods” where faith, truth, righteousness or rebellion will flourish and grow. Instead, it will be a bloodbath where the young, old and the weak succumb the quickest.  

I suggest you bring lots of Tabasco sauce, as it does make the meat taste better.

Bugging out also means you are leaving the norms of society behind. These are the rules, laws, restrictions and expectations that you have come to expect (and largely appreciate) that govern human behavior. Would-be dictators and gang leaders will spring forth from unlikely sources. Since there is nothing to hinder them, then they will allow themselves to be unhindered. Unrestrained, you will find the true nature of what your “friends” can really be.  You’ll soon regret not locking up the mad caps among you and taking away their weapons.  

If food or medical supplies are in short supply, then expect gang on gang, tribe on tribe warfare to begin.  Expect slavery, torture, imprisonment and rape.  Also expect the nearby communities (cities, towns, villages) to become their prey, as theft, robbery and murder to go hand in hand with their (daily) need for food and other things like fuel and medical supplies.

Inversely, you could also expect smart and prepared communities to expel, exterminate and hunt down these refugees if things get way out of hand, exacerbating an already bad situation. Forget for a moment the military or law enforcement going after these woodland refugees (a topic unto itself), the locals themselves will not be the helping hand that you may have naively come to expect, especially if you or your gang have already trod upon their welcome mat.  

They’re trying to survive too, and live normal, unfettered lives as best they can. They don’t need nor appreciate you coming along and messing things up. Camping out in their back yard or nearby forests will often pit you against them in violent and lethal ways. And they will be far more adept then you are outlasting you because they will have the infrastructure and support network to do so.

Survivalism is only rarely about ’surviving in the woods’. Rather, survivalism is about [i]living[/i], and staying alive, and how you might do that while experiencing as few hardships as you can. Bugging out to the woods to survive your end-time fantasies is going to be a quick path to death for the majority of people that try this route. There is a better alternative to this.

(05-21-2023, 12:50 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Even in a SHTF scenario, there can be a lot of reasons why you may have to leave your location in much haste. So a to go bag, and a plan B, should always be your fall back options.

(05-21-2023, 04:10 AM)Infolurker Wrote:

(05-21-2023, 12:50 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Even in a SHTF scenario, there can be a lot of reasons why you may have to leave your location in much haste. So a to go bag, and a plan B, should always be your fall back options.

True, just don't make it your Plan A.

You have no idea how many people believe they are just going to take their family out in the woods and be deer hunters... LOL

(05-21-2023, 10:46 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote:

(05-21-2023, 04:10 AM)Infolurker Wrote:

(05-21-2023, 12:50 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Even in a SHTF scenario, there can be a lot of reasons why you may have to leave your location in much haste. So a to go bag, and a plan B, should always be your fall back options.

True, just don't make it your Plan A.

You have no idea how many people believe they are just going to take their family out in the woods and be deer hunters... LOL

Well a little advice from a woodlander, woodland folk usually all carry guns. They are very cautious, and are extremely territorial.  

Unless the woods are in a State park, they are most likely privately own. In a SHTF scenario, shoot first, ask questions later, will most likely be the rule of the day. 

Now the government has its own rules about who owns what in a SHTF scenario, so don’t be surprised if it takes the stance that it owns everything.

Everything you “think” is yours. Your land, your stores, even you. For the good of the many you know.

(05-24-2023, 10:42 AM)TheRedneck Wrote: When and if someone has to bug out, it will likely not happen the way they have rehearsed it anyway. Everyone has this mental picture of what they will do when that time comes, and every one is wrong. If the country does collapse, for example, it will not, as has been said, be a "Mad Max" type scenario. Crime will increase, and martial law may be imposed if it gets too bad, but the cities will not dissolve into roving gangs. It will be more of every man for himself. People will be shoplifting, some will brazenly rob, houses will be broken into and pantries raided while the house is empty, and those who can will be running scams. The government will remain in place, although services we are used to might be cut or intermittent. In other words, don't expect the police to respond to your home when the powerful are being robbed as well. The Golden Rule will still apply: he who has the gold will make the rules. Those rules will include "me first."

(05-24-2023, 11:28 AM)SomeJackleg Wrote:

(05-24-2023, 10:42 AM)TheRedneck Wrote: When and if someone has to bug out, it will likely not happen the way they have rehearsed it anyway. Everyone has this mental picture of what they will do when that time comes, and every one is wrong. If the country does collapse, for example, it will not, as has been said, be a "Mad Max" type scenario. Crime will increase, and martial law may be imposed if it gets too bad, but the cities will not dissolve into roving gangs. It will be more of every man for himself. People will be shoplifting, some will brazenly rob, houses will be broken into and pantries raided while the house is empty, and those who can will be running scams. The government will remain in place, although services we are used to might be cut or intermittent. In other words, don't expect the police to respond to your home when the powerful are being robbed as well. The Golden Rule will still apply: he who has the gold will make the rules. Those rules will include "me first."

it's pretty much that way in many of the big million plus cities now hell it's even that way in lower population cities, and yes there are gangs roaming the streets and yes they do strike in packs with a shot calling gang leader.

your expecting it not to increase if pooh pooh gets deep. that's a very unrealistic view.

(05-23-2023, 03:16 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote: I've always figured I would stay put.  I can see it, like you said, living in a city or whathaveyou.

But, much to my husband's embarrassment, I've actually discussed disaster plans with our neighbors.  We all have a neighborhood plan.

Mostly farmers.  We had a good laugh last year, when we discussed the new neighbor moving in down the road.  Turns out his father owned the gun store in town.  (we had started judging neighbors by what they brought to the plan.)  Good addition!  LOL

(05-24-2023, 12:11 PM)quintessentone Wrote: I'm not so sure those gangs will have the upper hand. It will be them against everyone else who are most likely armed. I think it will come down to numbers and if neighbors get together within neighborhoods then the armed majority numbers rule.

Quote:In 2008, according to FBI gang investigator Jennifer Simon, 1 to 2% of the U.S. military belonged to gangs, which is 50 to 100 times the rate in the general population.[1] According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment, the NGIC identified members of more than 53 gangs who served in the military.[2] U.S. gangs have sometimes encouraged their members to join the military in order to learn warfare techniques.[3]

The FBI’s 2007 report on gang membership in the military stated that the military's recruit screening process is ineffective, and allows gang members/extremists to enter the military. The report listed at least eight instances in the previous three years in which gang members obtained military weapons for their own

Gang presence in the United States military

(05-24-2023, 12:46 PM)SomeJackleg Wrote:

(05-24-2023, 12:11 PM)quintessentone Wrote: I'm not so sure those gangs will have the upper hand. It will be them against everyone else who are most likely armed. I think it will come down to numbers and if neighbors get together within neighborhoods then the armed majority numbers rule.

i'm very sure they would have a very big upper hand. after all they are living on the fringes now, and have lots of ambush practice. there was a thing 15 years or so gangs were having members join the service to learn combat skills. of course the army and Corps deny it. some say it was a way for them to get out. either way, when shit gets deep, people are gonna fall back on what they know. plus i'm sure there are still some that do it today.

Quote:In 2008, according to FBI gang investigator Jennifer Simon, 1 to 2% of the U.S. military belonged to gangs, which is 50 to 100 times the rate in the general population.[1] According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment, the NGIC identified members of more than 53 gangs who served in the military.[2] U.S. gangs have sometimes encouraged their members to join the military in order to learn warfare techniques.[3]

The FBI’s 2007 report on gang membership in the military stated that the military's recruit screening process is ineffective, and allows gang members/extremists to enter the military. The report listed at least eight instances in the previous three years in which gang members obtained military weapons for their own

Gang presence in the United States military

very few soccer moms, dads know the operating end of a firearm, and are scared of them. all you have to do is look at the people that push for gun control who aren't part of the government or ngo's calling for it.

sure there are some regular folks that can fend them off, but the shitbirds of the world aren't going to target those kinda folks until all the easy pickins / sheeple are gone.  which i dare say is well over 2/3rds of the country.  they don't have the don't give a shit attitude about another human life.

(05-24-2023, 11:28 AM)SomeJackleg Wrote: it's pretty much that way in many of the big million plus cities now hell it's even that way in lower population cities, and yes there are gangs roaming the streets and yes they do strike in packs with a shot calling gang leader.

your expecting it not to increase if pooh pooh gets deep. that's a very unrealistic view.