Looks like the war with Iran is cooking off

[quintessentone]

History doesn't lie.

Yes it does.  All the time.
Depends on who is telling the story and what agenda/bias they have.
Where ever you are getting the 'history' from sounds suspect.
I suggest you find a new source because your statements have it backwards.

My sources are fine. I also listen to American ex-military, ex-CIA, experts on Iranians and their government, and you should too for a clearer picture of what is really going on there.

[The Crying Bunny]

I've been looking at past violent history in that region and it always seems that Israel is the instigator.

They retaliate because of Israel's aggression in that region.

You've got it backwards.
Iran with their Hezbollah, Houthis, and Palestinians aren't retaliating.
They are initiating.
Simply because Israel exists and they can't stand it.

Israel are the aggressors, the instigators...I'm reading the history in that region. History does not lie.

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An inconvenient truth is that Israel is the aggressor and their neighbors have to be on guard and retaliate to their ongoing aggression.

Once again, a truth based on nothing more than bias and an insincere attitude towards Israel.

Not at all, I'm reading the history of that region. History doesn't lie.

I suppose you are skipping over the parts that you don't want to acknowledge.

History is written with a bias.

And I'm not the one trying to defend Iran, but that's my bias.

I am anti-war, I am against governments that think they are untouchable and above the law and can just bomb any neighbor they think is weak. Israel and US bombed first, they are the aggressors in this instance. I am also against Russia's invasion but what is ironic is that Russia invaded Ukraine with the same insane reasoning as Israel and the US invaded Iran, because of an insecurity and not because they were actually attacked.

And yet you deny that Oct 7th was the result of Hamass and the backing of Iran.

[YesItsMe]

My sources are fine. 

Don't seem to be.  You are unaware that Iran has attacked Israel for 50 years via Hezbollah, Houthis, and the Palestinians.  You are unaware that Iran has threatened to 'wipe Israel off the map'.   You are unaware that Israel is defending itself from aggression instigated by Iran all these decades.   Doesn't sound like a good source of information or history at all.

[quintessentone]

I've been looking at past violent history in that region and it always seems that Israel is the instigator.

They retaliate because of Israel's aggression in that region.

You've got it backwards.
Iran with their Hezbollah, Houthis, and Palestinians aren't retaliating.
They are initiating.
Simply because Israel exists and they can't stand it.

Israel are the aggressors, the instigators...I'm reading the history in that region. History does not lie.

---

Once again, a truth based on nothing more than bias and an insincere attitude towards Israel.

Not at all, I'm reading the history of that region. History doesn't lie.

I suppose you are skipping over the parts that you don't want to acknowledge.

History is written with a bias.

And I'm not the one trying to defend Iran, but that's my bias.

I am anti-war, I am against governments that think they are untouchable and above the law and can just bomb any neighbor they think is weak. Israel and US bombed first, they are the aggressors in this instance. I am also against Russia's invasion but what is ironic is that Russia invaded Ukraine with the same insane reasoning as Israel and the US invaded Iran, because of an insecurity and not because they were actually attacked.

And yet you deny that Oct 7th was the result of Hamass and the backing of Iran.

I absolutely believe what witnesses claim happened and how not even a fly could get through those guarded areas. Yet Hamas just sails in without anyone stopping them. I absolutely think that homicidal maniac will stop at nothing to keep himself in power and out of prison.

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My sources are fine. 

Don't seem to be.  You are unaware that Iran has attacked Israel for 50 years via Hezbollah, Houthis, and the Palestinians.  You are unaware that Iran has threatened to 'wipe Israel off the map'.   You are unaware that Israel is defending itself from aggression instigated by Iran all these decades.   Doesn't sound like a good source of information or history at all.

Well why don't you provide me with your sources so I can compare?

[Ninurta]

It's not the question of just escorting ships, it's the question of also compensating any damage ships and cargo if struck because insurance companies are not insuring ships at this point.

Where are Trump's Zionist billionaires now?

The US has already agreed to cover ships that the insurance companies have abandoned. That was a big blowup in this very thread a few pages back. Now, it may be that I've missed where they have reneged on that statement. If I have missed their refusal, it would be a kindness to me to point to where I missed it.

I expect Trump's Zionist billionaires are where they have always been - hiding in either the closet or under the bed. probably somewhere in the White House, because I've not seen them anywhere out here. On the other hand, if we do find them anywhere, it's still not their responsibility to fulfill promises the US has made. that falls squarely upon the shoulders of the US, not private citizens.

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[quintessentone]

It's not the question of just escorting ships, it's the question of also compensating any damage ships and cargo if struck because insurance companies are not insuring ships at this point.

Where are Trump's Zionist billionaires now?

The US has already agreed to cover ships that the insurance companies have abandoned. That was a big blowup in this very thread a few pages back. Now, it may be that I've missed where they have reneged on that statement. If I have missed their refusal, it would be a kindness to me to point to where I missed it.

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What your government says and does are two different things.

Trump asking other nations to send in their ships should tell you everything you need to know.

[YesItsMe]

Well why don't you provide me with your sources so I can compare?

I told you pages ago that EVERY MAJOR NEWS OUTLET in the Western Hemisphere and Europe has covered this for 50 years.  No one here is going to go through 50 years of articles to post here to teach you the truth that Iran is funding and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis and Palestinians who have continually attacked Israel for 50 years.  If you want to play catchup, you'll have to ditch the "news" sources you are using, because they are obviously worthless, and find new ones that will teach you what is actually going on.

[quintessentone]

Well why don't you provide me with your sources so I can compare?

I told you pages ago that EVERY MAJOR NEWS OUTLET in the Western Hemisphere and Europe has covered this for 50 years.  No one here is going to go through 50 years of articles to post here to teach you the truth that Iran is funding and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis and Palestinians who have continually attacked Israel for 50 years.  If you want to play catchup, you'll have to ditch the "news" sources you are using, because they are obviously worthless, and find new ones that will teach you what is actually going on.

I don't do mainstream media any more, so maybe that's where you are being misled.

[YesItsMe]

I don't do mainstream media any more, so maybe that's where you are being misled.

You don't know about Iran funding and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis and Palestinians to attack Israel for the past 50 years.  The rest of us do know about it.  We aren't the ones being misled.

[quintessentone]

I don't do mainstream media any more, so maybe that's where you are being misled.

You don't know about Iran funding and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis and Palestinians to attack Israel for the past 50 years.  The rest of us do know about it.  We aren't the ones being misled.

Are we now talking about who is funding who to do who's bidding? That is a whole other thread.

[The Crying Bunny]

I don't do mainstream media any more, so maybe that's where you are being misled.

You don't know about Iran funding and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis and Palestinians to attack Israel for the past 50 years.  The rest of us do know about it.  We aren't the ones being misled.

Are we now talking about who is funding who to do who's bidding? That is a whole other thread.

*shakes head*

[Ninurta]

It's not the question of just escorting ships, it's the question of also compensating any damage ships and cargo if struck because insurance companies are not insuring ships at this point.

Where are Trump's Zionist billionaires now?

The US has already agreed to cover ships that the insurance companies have abandoned. That was a big blowup in this very thread a few pages back. Now, it may be that I've missed where they have reneged on that statement. If I have missed their refusal, it would be a kindness to me to point to where I missed it.

.

What your government says and does are two different things.

Trump asking other nations to send in their ships should tell you everything you need to know.

Granted. The US government often says one thing and does another. However, that still gets me no closer to a confirmation that the US has refused to cover any uninsured ships in the straights. That's what I was asking for.

Trump asking for more firepower has no bearing on whether the US has refused any shipping claims.

===============================================

History.

History does lie. it lies all the time. What's worse, it's subject to change and "updates" fairly frequently, and usually depending on the world view of whomever is writing the latest volume of it.

History in the Middle East is particularly malleable. For example, Israel and the Palestinians have been slapping one another for years, historically speaking, over just who the "Canaanites" and the "Philistines" were, trying to push back their individual "ownership" of the lands in their favor. Both sides are guilty, and Both are probably equally wrong. Just because Arabs call the Palestinians "Filistines" does not prove their descent from Bronze Age interlopers into Canaan. The origins of the current Palestinians are well documented, from the time of their origin in the 1930's and 1940's.

Currently, scholars are trying to link "Israelites" to Canaanites, at least partially, and that's probably as untrue as the alleged Palestinian origin myths way back in antiquity. the Jews own writings claim they conquered the Canaanites, rather than descended from them.

While I know the origins of the current "Palestinians", my best guess to the origins of the Israelites is not Egypt nor Mesopotamia, but most likely the mountains of Seir or Edom, or a little of both. Possibly with an element from as far south as Midian.

But, that's just my best guess, not "Fact".

Because history is constantly being rewritten.

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[YesItsMe]

Are we now talking about who is funding who to do who's bidding? That is a whole other thread.

No it's not a whole other thread.   Don't try to move the goal posts.  

You falsely claim that Israel is the instigator and that Iran is the victim.  When in fact Iran has been financing and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis, and Palestinians to attack Israel for 50 years.  A fact that you refuse to acknowledge.   Iran has been hitting first for decades.   Israel fighting back is self defense.   

I'm not going to bother continuing this line of discussion.   It's not worth my time.

[Ninurta]

Are we now talking about who is funding who to do who's bidding? That is a whole other thread.

No it's not a whole other thread.   Don't try to move the goal posts.  

You falsely claim that Israel is the instigator and that Iran is the victim.  When in fact Iran has been financing and supporting Hezbollah, Houthis, and Palestinians to attack Israel for 50 years.  A fact that you refuse to acknowledge.   Iran has been hitting first for decades.   Israel fighting back is self defense.   

I'm not going to bother continuing this line of discussion.   It's not worth my time.

You two are just picking different starting points for the "aggression", and carrying forward from there. One is picking 27 Feb, 2026 as the starting point for the "aggression", and another is picking a point 50 years ago (factually untrue - it should be 47 years ago. Before that, there was NO Iranian support for Palestinians) for the start of the aggression. if Kenzo were still in the conversation, he might tell us the actual starting point was back in the 1950's with a CIA "coup", which ignores all the aggression and government changes in and from Iran since then. Someone else might try to convince us that it all REALLY started with the Assyrians conquering Israel in the BC's. Yet another might try to convince us that it all started with Elamite raids into Israel from Elam in what later became southwestern Persia.

It's all just smoke and mirrors, and what year one desires to pick as "the start of aggressions". Folks can argue those points all day long and never reach a conclusion unless they can agree on the historical starting point.

When I pick 47 years ago, that is when Iran first attacked the United States after an upheaval and change in Iranian government, and declared war upon us. That is MY starting point. I don't care what went on before that, as Iran had an entirely different series of governments before. THIS current government , you know, the one being fought against, is the one that matters... and THEY declared war on US 47 years ago.


The back and forth bullshit between Iran and Israel is not my concern. I'm neither Iranian nor Israeli.

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[YesItsMe]

Ninurta - "another is picking a point 50 years ago (factually untrue - it should be 47 years ago"

I know it's 47 years. 
I was just rounding to the nearest zero number.
It was easier.
Close enough.
Gets the point across.
Irans been attacking Israel for decades.
This war didn't start 14 days ago.

[putnam6]

The method to the madness...

Faytuks TranslatorRole icon, Staff Member
APP
— 10:58 PM
https://x.com/MPPregent/status/2033376201595854859

MPPregent
The regime funded our Forever Wars and their lobbyists and whisperers derailed our success through influence campaigns in academia, the media, and in Washington.

They are the ones you see on X, on Capitol Hill, and in the media hoping the U.S. fails again.

What do they gain? Tenure, donations, retainers, and toasts in their echo-chambers.

If you hate Forever Wars then you should support ending them by ending the regime in Iran.


Source
https://x.com/MPPregent/status/2033376201595854859
Today at 10:53 PM

[Ninurta]

Looks like a cease fire between Iran and Israel starts in 6 hours. 

Well, that's disappointing. Since the objective has not been reached, I'm going to have to consider this an Iran win and a US capitulation if the cease-fire holds.

There is still an ayatollah drawing breath. Loss. Mission failure.

The IRGC is still in existence. Loss. Mission failure.

The Basij is still in existence. Loss. Mission failure.

The Iranian people are still not free. Loss. Mission failure.

The "help" that Trump promised the Iranians was "on the way" didn't get the job done.

So, the US appears to have taken anther ass-whoopin'. Why bother fighting at all if you're just gonna cave the first time the enemy tries to bring a little pain on you? I don't play that crap personally. if something is important enough for me to fight over, I'm either going to win or die trying. If it's not important enough to win or die for, I just stay home.

Maybe Trump needs to take that philosophy too, and just stay the fuck home. Doing nothing at all is preferable to talkin' big shit and then just wussing out and packing an ass-whoopin'.

How many times are we going to have to "destroy" their nuclear program before it's dented enough that we don't have to go "destroy" it all over again in just a few months? Forgive me if I don't believe Vance when he claims "destruction" of their nuclear program... because I've heard that shit before. if it wasn't true then, I have no reason to believe it to be true now.

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