The middle finger and pluck Yew

[727Sky]

Well, now......here's something I never knew before, and now that I know it, I feel compelled to send it on to my more intelligent friends in the hope that they, too, will feel edified.

Before the Battle of Agincourt in 1415, the French, anticipating victory over the English, proposed to cut off the middle finger of all captured English soldiers. Without the middle finger it would be impossible to draw the renowned English longbow and therefore they would be incapable of fighting in the future. This famous English longbow was made of the native English Yew tree, and the act of drawing the longbow was known as 'plucking the yew' (or 'pluck yew').
Much to the bewilderment of the French, the English won a major upset, and they began mocking the French by waving their middle fingers at the defeated French, saying, See, we can still pluck yew! Since 'pluck yew' is rather difficult to say, the difficult consonant cluster at the beginning has gradually changed to a labiodental fricative 'F', and thus the words often used in conjunction with the one-finger-salute! It is also because of the pheasant feathers on the arrows used with the longbow that the symbolic gesture is known as 'giving the bird.'
And yew thought yew knew every plucking thing ...

[xuenchen]

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

I was just reading about the fall of feudal Europe and the Yew longbow played a significant part. The black plague was number one, but the yew longbow was just under that.

[BIAD]

Here in merry-olde England, I was always under the impression that the French's goal was to cut
off both fingers to stifle use of the longbow. Hence the now obscure use of the two-finger salute
(the reverse of the peace sign) to insult rival military forces.


Wikipedia 'suggests' the single-finger signal stems from Ancient Greece and oddly enough,
the use of two digits to insult is also commented on and offers the idea of three fingers
being taken to stop longbowmen.

'Origins
A commonly repeated legend claims that the two-fingered salute or V sign derives from a gesture made
by longbowmen fighting in the English army at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) during the Hundred Years'
War, but no written historical primary sources support this contention.

This origin legend states that Welsh archers believed that those who were captured by the French had their
index and middle fingers cut off so that they could no longer operate their longbows, and that the V sign was
used by uncaptured and victorious archers in a display of defiance against the French.

In conflict with this origin myth, the chronicler Jean de Wavrin, contemporary of the battle, reported that Henry
V mentioned in a pre-battle speech that the French were said to be threatening to cut off three fingers (not two)
from captured bowmen.

Wielding an English longbow is best done with three fingers. Neither Wavrin nor any contemporary author
reported the threat was ever carried out after that nor other battles, nor did they report anything concerning a
gesture of defiance...'




Shown merely as an example, not an insult!!

[EndtheMadnessNow]

Huh, had no idea on that one!

[BIAD]

Just for the record, I am not a pheasant-plucker, I'm a pheasant-plucker's son.

[Ninurta]

Just for the record, I am not a pheasant-plucker, I'm a pheasant-plucker's son.

I'm actually a pheasant-plucker, an avocation which my Dear Old Dad eschewed once he graduated beyond short-pants. I've also been known to "fly the bird" upon occasion, in a couple of different meanings of the phrase...



I have no compunctions against demonstrating that I am still fully physically equipped to bend the arc, and at times take delight in such demonstrations... especially in traffic.



I don't know of anyone who plucks a bowstring with less than 3 fingers when using a full-strength bow, however, and fail to see how simply removing the middle finger would slow an archer down. Some people do use just one finger - the index finger - in combination with a thumb to draw a bow, by pinching the butt of a nocked arrow and drawing the arrow itself against the string, rather than drawing the string. However, that would be a feat to accomplish with a full powered bow, and English longbows are VERY full powered. Reconstructions of the long bows dredged up from the Mary Celeste drew in the neighborhood of 100 to 125  pounds at a full draw, which is pretty hefty for a hand-held bow  rather than a crossbow.



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[DISRAELI]

I think intelligent friends will be obliged to disillusion you. I'm going to call this one internet nonsense.

In the first place, that Agincourt story is normally told about the standard English TWO-finger gesture. The middle finger gesture is an American novelty. I don't actually believe it about the two-finger gesture either, because I'm sure it doesn't come from contemporary chronicles.

As for the word, dictionaries say it is "early 16th century: of Germanic origin (compare Swedish dialect focka and Dutch dialect fokkelen ); possibly from an Indo-European root meaning ‘strike’, shared by Latin pugnus ‘fist’."

[Snarl]

Just for the record, I am not a pheasant-plucker, I'm a pheasant-plucker's son.

I'm actually a pheasant-plucker

I used to be called a pleasant fucker. 

The string on my bow is pulled back with a release aid.

Here's a guy with the (almost) equivalent pull of one of BIAD's old Aenglish bows. Sort'a cheating that a compound bow gives you a decent let-off of 80-85% once you get to full draw.

These days I'm down to a 65lb pull. Anything more than that sends me directly to Physical Therapy. I like all of my fingers too, BTW.

[Ninurta]

Just for the record, I am not a pheasant-plucker, I'm a pheasant-plucker's son.

I'm actually a pheasant-plucker

I used to be called a pleasant fucker. 

The string on my bow is pulled back with a release aid.

Here's a guy with the (almost) equivalent pull of one of BIAD's old Aenglish bows. Sort'a cheating that a compound bow gives you a decent let-off of 80-85% once you get to full draw.

These days I'm down to a 65lb pull. Anything more than that sends me directly to Physical Therapy. I like all of my fingers too, BTW.

The English longbows were actually stout enough to modify the skeletal structure of archers. In archer skeletons that have been retrieved, there have been changes from normal skeletons, particularly in the area of the shoulders.

I can't shoot compound bows. There is something about that "letoff" that you mention that throws my aim off. furthermore, I draw and release, I don't stand there holding it at draw all day, and the folks I've talked to say that's the reason for the letoff - so you can draw it and then stand there with it drawn like a knot on a log. I don't see the point to that.

I have a friend that shoots bow and arrow competitively, and he uses a compound bow with one of those fancy release geegaws. He gets upset when I mention his need for training wheels on a bow. I reckon it's ok if that's what one needs, but  just can't get behind it because I can't hit anything like that. If I'm going to need to just stand there holding it, I'd rather use a crossbow.

.

[Snarl]

The English longbows were actually stout enough to modify the skeletal structure of archers. In archer skeletons that have been retrieved, there have been changes from normal skeletons, particularly in the area of the shoulders.

No exaggerating about going to physical therapy. Some people are that strong ... because they become that strong. I 'had' worked my way up to a 75lb draw. Hurt myself and wound up down to 50. Shootin' whitetails in Kentucky doesn't take anymore than 60 and if I drop to that next year I'll be just fine.

I can't shoot compound bows. There is something about that "letoff" that you mention that throws my aim off. furthermore, I draw and release, I don't stand there holding it at draw all day, and the folks I've talked to say that's the reason for the letoff - so you can draw it and then stand there with it drawn like a knot on a log. I don't see the point to that.

I have a friend that shoots bow and arrow competitively, and he uses a compound bow with one of those fancy release geegaws. He gets upset when I mention his need for training wheels on a bow. I reckon it's ok if that's what one needs, but  just can't get behind it because I can't hit anything like that. If I'm going to need to just stand there holding it, I'd rather use a crossbow.

People who see me shoot say I have a talent. That's 'cause they've never see me shoot a longbow. I've tried ... and that's the reason no one sees me doing it.

   

Around here a 'long' shot is 40 yards (probably your neck of the woods too). I don't 'go' hunting so I'm no ranged threat to wildlife out West. I bow hunt from a tree stand and want to take the shot at a 20-30yd distance. The let off is a very useful advantage when a deer is walking into one's shooting lane. It allows you that little extra measure of not being detected by your movement or those itty-bitty inevitable sounds one makes when standing up and drawing. All of it matters when the projectile is subsonic.

Never shot a crossbow before.

[Snarl]

I can't believe no one took a close look at that picture and called me out.   Those arrows were into the 60yd target, but I was 90 something yards away from it. What I was doing at the time was re-calibrating my sight tape/wheel on a semi-windy day (usually a bad idea ... but ... Kentucky).

There are three arrow types in that photo. The ones with red and white fletchings are 'just' for field tips. The one with yellow fletchings is weighted differently and is made for use with a single bevel broadhead. The one with the blue fletching always flies at that weight and is made for a different type of fixed blade broadhead.

It's the nock poking out from the lower wooden crossbeam to get a laff from. Too dangerous to continue using a carbon arrow if that happens. Thirty Snarl-bucks down the drain.

[F2d5thCav]

I think intelligent friends will be obliged to disillusion you. I'm going to call this one internet nonsense.

In the first place, that Agincourt story is normally told about the standard English TWO-finger gesture. The middle finger gesture is an American novelty. I don't actually believe it about the two-finger gesture either, because I'm sure it doesn't come from contemporary chronicles.

As for the word, dictionaries say it is "early 16th century: of Germanic origin (compare Swedish dialect focka and Dutch dialect fokkelen ); possibly from an Indo-European root meaning ‘strike’, shared by Latin pugnus ‘fist’."

Dis,

  Well noted.  My doubts regarding this tale center upon it being too perfect, a common giveaway that what one is being told is not true.

Cheers