Old souls

[Ninurta]

Faith is the exact opposite of logic and reason. We have to set our minds free to have "faith" that can say to a mountain "go into the sea," and it be done. 

Logic and reason would never heal the sick or cast out a demon, simply by saying a word.

Human understanding is logic and reason. Faith goes beyond what we know. It just depends on how much Faith a person puts into it. If you don't believe something like, say, speaking in tongues. If you don't "believe in ot" then it will never happen. If we don't believe we can lay hands on a person and heal then then we won't ever do it. 

Faith is the opposite of experience and knowledge. 

I put my faith into, "I don't know squat." Once I let go of my intelligence my eyes really started to open.

I was taught that faith is knowing without seeing. Not "Believing" without seeing, which is a different, lower,   level of certainty, but KNOWING without seeing. To KNOW, with a certainty, without external "proof". I personally think (a yet lower level of certainty than "believe") that God uses many paths to draw God's own., and whatever path God may use for that purpose is tailored to the individual God is drawing. I believe that there are no "one size fits all" solutions. It takes different "bait" to draw different folks, each according to his own preferences.

You're dad claiming that you were like an adult when you were a child is what some would call an "old soul." Wisdom beyond their years is one indicator. That wisdom had to come from somewhere. Wisdom comes from experience. A three year old who seems to have the wisdom of an old man is a soul who has had a lot of experience. I've seen thos wisdom myself in some children. This isn't intelligence in these kids. It's pure wisdom. I've heard small children who were wiser than any 78 year old I've ever known. How could this be possible without that soul having some experience within?

I agree with you that "intelligence" and "wisdom" are two entirely separate things. "Intelligence" is a native measure of one's capacity to learn, while "wisdom" is the correlation and expression of the things learned by the intelligence through experience. Therefore, one has to "learn" some things and process them through the "intelligence" before "wisdom" can extract and express lessons from what is learned. Little kids have not had the time for all that learning and experience, and any wisdom they display has to come from somewhere external to their perceived (lack of) experience which has not had time to happen.

Our spirits are eternal. I think some of us choose to come back. Bodhisattva-Style.

I'm certain that spirit is eternal. It's the "coming back" part that many folks, myself included, tend to get stuck on. Science has yet to crack the code of "consciousness", and there is a reason for that. Science tends to operate on empirical observation, and there are just some things that will never volunteer to jump through hoops to provide that observation. I used to tell folks that "God doesn't dance like a trained monkey just because you want to crank the organ" A crude observation on my part, but I am convinced an accurate one.

I personally think that "consciousness" or "soul" or "spirit" - whatever one wants to call the essential part of us that makes us ourselves - is actually external to the body and "eternal" in it's essential nature. Where science tends toward thinking that the "self" is created within the brain, I am convinced it is external to the brain, part of a mysterious "out there" that most never get the opportunity to see while living. I think that the body is just a vehicle for the soul, and the brain is the "conduit" or "receiver" that processes the soul and binds it to this or that body for a time.

I liken it to a radio receiver to try to help folks understand - you cannot see a radio signal, but when it is received and processed via a radio receiver, you then know it is there. The radio signal is not generated by the radio, it is just captured, "tuned in", and expressed by the radio receiver. Beyond the receiver, it still IS, but cannot be seen. When you turn off the radio, the signal does not cease to exist, it only ceases to be expressed via that particular receiver.. That is also the way of things with "spirit".

All of this is a learning experience for me. I used to be set in my "beliefs." Then I realized, my "beliefs" were shackles of my mind. I actually went back and unlearned everything that was taught to me by man, and relearned everything I thought I knew. This is when those doors started opening for me. It was in the freeing of my mind from all the lies and bs I had been taught through this world. If this is the devil's world then everything I've been taught by it is a lie. I drudged through all of those lies like walking through the dark with only a FlickerOfLight to guide me every so often into the right direction. The light gets brighter and brighter the more I let go of all those boundaries thrown on me through the "church," this world and all my experiences.

If a person needed factual proof to "believe" in things like this, then that individual will never find anything beyond the black, white and red letters.

That's absolutely true. "Proof" is anathema to "faith", "proof" destroys "faith", for when we have proof, faith ("knowing without SEEING") is no longer necessary. That may be why proof is so elusive for scientists New experience brings question to knowledge, and that is why proof often dodges and escapes us - it would destroy our chance to have faith if captured. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." - 1 Corinthians 13:12

I know that you are one who is highly intelligent and experienced. I know you hold great earthly wisdoms from those experiences. To become like a little child would be to "let go" of all of that and look at God through those child eyes that, yes, are still within you. Go back and re-look at God's Word through those eyes, and you will see the Word of God come Alive.

I thank you for your view on this. I know that I seem to constantly go head to head with ya. Iron sharpens iron. I know where to sharpen. Tons of respect for ya. This is simply my view and I appreciate the discussion. You make me think, and every conversation with you sharpens me.

Cheers.

I don't know how "intelligent" I am. I just know what I know, until I don't know it any more and have to readjust. New experience brings question to knowledge, and some times that knowledge has to be adjusted in light of new experience. It's a life-long process. Maybe longer than "life", if we have to keep coming back again to "learn" more stuff. Some things, by their very nature, cannot be grabbed, poked, prodded, and analyzed. Those things require faith, whether the faith is for or against them - they cannot be "proven" in either direction. God - and "spirit" - does not jump through hoops on command for our amusement and verification, so absolute "proof" of some things will forever elude science. Those things then have to be "taken on faith".

Growth only comes through adversity, and that continues into the realms of "knowledge" as well. That is also often the answer to the question of "Why me? Why does God allow bad things to happen?" They happen because without adversity there is no growth.

So, you are welcome to spar with me. The "adversity" it provides doesn't just promote your own growth, but mine as well, and hopefully, the growth of those who read and consider such exchanges. That's why I insist on all views being allowed to be aired here, ESPECIALLY those I may not agree with - the free exchange of ideas. Without the adversity that provides, there is no growth intellectually, either.

"Adversaries" are not necessarily "enemies".

Stagnation is for ponds, not people!

ETA: Folks should also consider that some times, I will take a stance that I know to be false or untrue. I do that at times in order to force someone to defend their beliefs, so that they can be sure they know what they believe, and why they know it. Too many people these days only know what they are told to believe, without analyzing it. They do not "know what they believe", they only "know" what they are told to believe, without questioning it. So, some times I will force them to question it, so that their faith in what they know has a firmer foundation that they can express and defend.

I'm sometimes an asshole like that.

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