I Sense New Growth For Rogue Nation

[SomeJackleg]

haven't been posting much here latly been busy remolding the homestead, but stop by at least every other day or so and check the board. I also do so the same at TOS.

today this thread was posted by the new admin, who i'm thinking is the new owner named darko, although their profile says he's been there a while, it's funny they being a admin and as long as it says and i have been going to the site (since 2005) ive never seen a post of theirs and all the posts that can be viewed are from around the time of the update.

ATS Mud Pit may be put on hold.

what i'm thinking is the mud pit is going away or the very least isn't gonna be much different now than the rest of the forums, in that the mud pit was a bit more relaxed, posts weren't removed as often, and you could express yourself more freely without worrying about hurting someones feelz, getting double post warnings which one Mod/ Admin had started doing even before the updates so i don't think it was a glitch issue. more like a build up the warnings for a a eventual post ban.

i think the decision to end it or start more strict rules enforcement for it had already been made, and this thread was a feeler to see how it would go over, not that it would matter. it's gonna be done.

when you have to watch what you say and how you say it constantly thinking  about hurting feelz and offending someone or posts being removed, what fun is that, and acting all high brow and superior isn't all that great look either.

if a post is within reason leave it alone, don't complain, get over it, don't want your kids viewing the site lock em out as best you can, don't want to read stuff that offends you don't open it up, no one is twisting your arm holding your nose to it. many ways to avoid what you think is offensive without infringing on others right to speak their mind.

but then again it's their site, and they can make their own rules even if it drives people away.

changing the pit is a mistake, it has the third largest post count, many a member post in that forum and will be looking for a new place.

it may be time for some invites, and make sure to tell them you can even cuss over here. 
started to drop the f bomb, but TOS decorum instinct took hold

[Freija]

I read every page of that thread and thought it all very interesting. I am longer a member there for several years now. Lurked for a couple years and joined in 2007 but have been er... excused from participation multiple times.

The problems there are far bigger than just the mud pit as the attitudes allowed there have infested the rest of the board and my own personal opinion is that 90% of the whole damn thing is a cesspit and horrendously unwelcoming to anyone even remotely outside the echo chamber of prevailing right-wing conservative ideology and that some of the folks there are obsessed and simply out of their damn minds.

Not that there aren't a few good and reasonable people there who haven't been sucked into whole left/right culture war madness thing but they are few and far between and occasionally there are some interesting threads but eventually even they get invaded by people just want to stir up shit.

If the mud pit is eliminated, they're going to have their hands full if they want the site to be more commercially appealing because the muddy behavior already permitted has opened the door to people being assholes and I'm afraid putting that genie back in the bottle will be impossible.

All I can say is that if there is a sudden exodus of members to this board, they damn well better not bring their bullshit here and muddy up what we've got going on. Granted, this site is pretty hard right leaning but hasn't devolved into the absolute shithow that's going on over there and I hope that doesn't happen.

That's my nickel's worth of thoughts on the matter.

[Chiefsmom]

Yeah, I don't think it will just be the removing of the mud pit, although I don't think that will happen, just changed.

It will also be the strange, new Administrators, that have join dates that don't match their posting history, who are friends with the new owner and one in particular that has very thin skin, for someone willing to post their real name on a forum.

Lots of weirdness going on over there.

[Ninurta]

All I can say is that if there is a sudden exodus of members to this board, they damn well better not bring their bullshit here and muddy up what we've got going on. Granted, this site is pretty hard right leaning but hasn't devolved into the absolute shithow that's going on over there and I hope that doesn't happen.

That's my nickel's worth of thoughts on the matter.

It won't.

Folks are welcome to speak their mind here, Left, Center, Right, or even out in the outfield, but that does not extend to trashing another member. "Speaking your mind" on a topic does not include personal attacks as in slapping contests. I'll lower the boom in a heart beat in those instances, because it is way too easy for a full-grown human being to counter a message without resorting to have to shoot the messenger. If they have to shoot the messenger, then that means they have no meaningful counter to the message, and so have already lost the debate anyhow.

I don't like banning folks, and it's double-super-extra-rare for that to happen here, but whenever it's necessary, we don't waste time getting 'er done. We have so few rules that if even the ones we do have can't be followed, then the offending individual is not fit for inclusion in civilized society any how. It's not hard to pick them out, because they are generally of a discourse level beneath australopithecines.

Yes, we lean hard to the Right, but I will fight every bit as hard to preserve the right to hold a Left wing opinion as I do any other opinion. If both of any two people agree on everything, then at least one of them is entirely unnecessary, and no human growth can occur, because there is nothing to challenge them to promote that growth. Development only comes with a necessity to rise to a challenge. Otherwise, there is no incentive to rise.

One can only be sure of their beliefs if they can successfully defend them against adversity. With no adversity, there is no evaluation, and hence no growth or development.

We were never meant to be an echo chamber, but we WERE always meant to be able to bat ideas around civilly.

We never had a mud pit because only hogs wallow around in the mud, not human beings.

So, it won't happen here.



.

[MisterSpock]

I find ATS to be pretty questionable at this point, who owns it, who are these "new owners" that have been around forever, but fail to identify themselves or wish to cash in on their supposed long term membership that is "rooted" in the origins/original intent of ATS.

What's with that "why cant we go from a conspiracy site to respected media" comment.

Respected by who, the mainstream media and twitter crowd?

That would kind of refute the whole "deny ignorance" thing and "conspiracy" thing. Since "conspiracy" these days is nothing more than pointing out truth through observation.

Sounds pretty sus to me, sounds like some big media brand bought it up and wants to be the next buzzfeed or some such garbage.

[BIAD]

I find ATS to be pretty questionable at this point, who owns it, who are these "new owners" that have been around forever, but fail to identify themselves or wish to cash in on their supposed long term membership that is "rooted" in the origins/original intent of ATS.

What's with that "why cant we go from a conspiracy site to respected media" comment.

Respected by who, the mainstream media and twitter crowd?

That would kind of refute the whole "deny ignorance" thing and "conspiracy" thing. Since "conspiracy" these days is nothing more than pointing out truth through observation.

Sounds pretty sus to me, sounds like some big media brand bought it up and wants to be the next buzzfeed or some such garbage.

I believe you're correct in your assumption, many websites still believe there's money to be gained
by leaning close to the MSM-style of information deliverance. This -of course, demands its audience
accepts certain types of narrative that benefits the preservation of the new technique of bringing
so-called news and a preferred way of thinking conducive to these massive Government-funded
mainstream companies.

Their product isn't very intellectual these days and tends to cleave more towards emotive provocation
in the hopes it maintains the audiences attention. Political news is really press-releases parcelled as
'exclusives' with only a kernel of truth regarding reality and are usually trial balloons. But... they won't
tell you that during their slick recitations of somebody else's words.

Whatever ATS is now may be seen by its Moderators as the same but with a slight tilt away from the
'internet-conspiracy-stuff', but it still means a change as taken place. The world is still the same, the
hunt for intriguing information is still a viable component for websites like ATS, so why -so late in the
maintenance of ATS, is there a need to change?

[JosiahPastor]

May ATS rot in peace. Lol. I'm currently using three forms, including this one, all of which are better than ATS. This video was for another community, but it fits here regarding the site in question. Lol.

[Chiefsmom]

Anyone else catch that Mystic Spiral admited Darko was the new owner, on his Ankh thread?

LOL

[SomeJackleg]

Anyone else catch that Mystic Spiral admited  Darko was the new owner, on his Ankh thread?

LOL

sure did, here is the post.

I'm not answering this Darko explained how he had to make an administrator. He is the owner of this site, why should he even have to explain every decision he makes. Does a owner have to explain why he hired or brought someone on to participate in the site ?

https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr...id26976544

something else that bothers me, seems like some cronyism and deception going on.
like having a account, that says you've been a member for 21 years, only 246 posts, 150 stars, and on top of that a admin to.

then there's the mod's that are now admins circling like buzzards.

also does anyone remember that when it was being sold that they said no ads, and that they weren't going to change anything.

it's just a matter of time.

[Ninurta]

Well, I kinda sorta checked into this, and it's my understanding - which may be imperfect - that the main reason the Mud Pit is in jeopardy is that the bad behaviors it allows, like trolling behaviors, are bleeding out of the Mud Pit and into the rest of the site, thus negating the very reason the Mud Pit was created for. Instead of containing the rowdiness in the Mud Pit, it's getting slimed all across their site. Why bother even having one if users are just going to ignore the boundaries it represents and drag their shit all over the rest of the site?

I can understand that. It's why some folks can't have nice things - they ignore boundaries.

The simplest way to "fix" it, barring just shutting it down, would be for the users to respect the boundaries that have been set up, or open a season on the miscreants when they act up outside of the Mud Pit, and not set a bag limit for the mods. While I was running through, I saw several folks whining about "muh free speech!" Fuck that. If they can't couple responsibility with their freedom of speech, they will eventually have neither.

Every right you have is tempered by a concurrent responsibility, and as a species, it seems that humanity is getting a lot better at ignoring their responsibilities while insisting on their rights, just as children do. But we're not children, we are (allegedly) adults, and ought properly to be able to behave ourselves as adults do.

The reason we have so few rules here is mostly because I'm a slack bastard and don't want to have to remember an entire book of rules to have to enforce. However, having fewer rules has side effects, like being able to enforce them much more strongly, since there isn't as much to have to patrol for - we can devote more time and attention to torturing and executing miscreants, because we don't have to continually hunt for the next one.

The simplest way to avoid the crosshairs here is to just act like an adult, or at least pretend you have aspirations to become one. That pretty much takes care of all the rules without having to memorize a lengthy T+C chart. Disagree all you want, cuss all you want, but do it respectfully, by not attacking another member. Attack dogs attack, but we are not attack dogs any more than we are children. We are adult humans, and ought, by rights, to be able to act as such, assuming our parents did their fucking jobs raising us.

If they didn't, the world has no pity, and it doesn't care. Me neither. I can occasionally come down like the wrath of the gods when defending my children, and as it happens, "my children" includes all of the members here.

ATS has a different operation model, and that's the main difference, aside from having a much larger membership base to have to herd. So they set their boundaries, some folks seem to ignore those, which makes it necessary for them to either repair the fences, plow up the whole pasture, or shoot the fence-crossing coyotes... or any combination thereof.

Instead of bitching and whining about it in the ATS thread Darko started while looking for solutions, the members ought to try and appreciate the fact that Darko is looking for solutions that don't involve burning down their doll house, so that they can keep their nice things.

.

[Freija]

There's still something fishy about all of this.

Wasn't ATS sold like two years ago? Where has this Darko cat been all this time and despite many member pleas and conjectures about the new owner why is it only in the last couple of days that information is dribbling out and changes are being made or proposed?

@"Ninurta", it is not just or always a case of one member slagging another that makes the place toxic. Try looking at things from my perspective and see how slurs and degrading comments towards certain groups of people are not only allowed but applauded by many who are completely obsessed with parroting what their right-wing bias confirming sources have told them to think. It is sadly pathetic that this level of ignorance and disrespect is allowed to fester and that so many of the people there are nothing but easily triggered simple-minded sheep.

ATS used to be great, informative and entertaining. Now it's just a hellhole.

[Ninurta]

There's still something fishy about all of this.

Wasn't ATS sold like two years ago? Where has this Darko cat been all this time and despite many member pleas and conjectures about the new owner why is it only in the last couple of days that information is dribbling out and changes are being made or proposed?

I can remember Darko from my days there, although I think he was just a member then, rather than an admin. I'm not sure he's the owner, despite what that new admin said - it wouldn't be the first time folks have been lied to, y'know? I was told it was someone else entirely, but can't rule out a group being co-owners.

@"Ninurta", it is not just or always a case of one member slagging another that makes the place toxic. Try looking at things from my perspective and see how slurs and degrading comments towards certain groups of people are not only allowed but applauded by many who are completely obsessed with parroting what their right-wing bias confirming sources have told them to think. It is sadly pathetic that this level of ignorance and disrespect is allowed to fester and that so many of the people there are nothing but easily triggered simple-minded sheep.

ATS used to be great, informative and entertaining. Now it's just a hellhole.

Oh, I kinda understand. Although not in the same league as yourself, over time I was called a "redneck", a "hillbilly", a "bubba". and other, less flattering, things during my time there, almost always in a roundabout way so that I wasn't being "directly targeted".  Mostly I think they were just trying to piss me off and get a rise out of me... but the fact is, I AM a redneck hillbilly, so it didn't bug me as much as they thought it would. Luckily, in my case I'm not very easily triggered, so it just sort of rolled off my back like water off a duck while I set about destroying the accuser... but in a nice way, of course.

You are correct, of course, that there are a lot of simple-minded and easily triggered folks there, just as there seem to be in our general population of the US. That makes it even worse, because it's not hard for trolls to get a rise out of such folks Matter of fact, I think there are some trolls there who specialize in trying to get a rise out of easily triggered folks just to watch them get banned, which doesn't seem very sporting to me.

I used to spend hours a day there, but haven't done so in a number of years. Now I just check in occasionally, so I'm sure I've not gotten the full flavor of what it has become now. I do know there were a lot of complaints around the 2016 election and it's aftermath that ATS had become a "right-wing echo chamber", but that was never my experience when I spent a lot of time there. When I was there, it seemed to be pretty much evenly divided, which made it interesting to me. I could always count on some left-winger to pick a fight with me, and that's one of the places I honed my skills in making friends of enemies.

You see, when folks in your own tribe respect you and are a friend, that's not much of a feather in your cap. Making friends of former enemies, without capitulating or losing what you are, now THAT takes some finesse!

ETA: Some day, I want you to explain to me what is wrong with putting tomatoes in a fruit salad. After all, they ARE fruits, and I eat them just like I eat apples. You'll probably have to talk slow, and maybe spell some things, but I bet I can eventually get the gist of it!

.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

ATS slipping rapidly down the shitter, Parler gone, Gab is more of a mess than ever and Yubnub (introduced to me here) is still struggling to be anything.

I have been relying on The Patriot Hangout at tapatalk and the Rogues here to take up that slack.

Where is it happening anymore?

Anyone hear of "clouthub.com"? I have that in my bookmarks and can't remember why.

[Freija]

ETA: Some day, I want you to explain to me what is wrong with putting tomatoes in a fruit salad. After all, they ARE fruits, and I eat them just like I eat apples. You'll probably have to talk slow, and maybe spell some things, but I bet I can eventually get the gist of it!.

Well, Bubba, I suppose a redneck hillbilly wouldn't understand why most would find putting a tomato in a fruit salad might be unpalatable so it would be pointless to explain it.

You made me go look at fruit salad recipes. Tomato just wouldn't work.

Maybe I should change my quote to Hanlon's razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

What I have found though is some people just are malicious and they don't like being called stupid. See..I try to not be antagonistic and thought the tomato thing was less triggering. 

[Ninurta]

ETA: Some day, I want you to explain to me what is wrong with putting tomatoes in a fruit salad. After all, they ARE fruits, and I eat them just like I eat apples. You'll probably have to talk slow, and maybe spell some things, but I bet I can eventually get the gist of it!.

Well, Bubba, I suppose a redneck hillbilly wouldn't understand why most would find putting a tomato in a fruit salad might be unpalatable so it would be pointless to explain it.

You made me go look at fruit salad recipes. Tomato just wouldn't work.

Maybe I should change my quote to Hanlon's razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

What I have found though is some people just are malicious and they don't like being called stupid. See..I try to not be antagonistic and thought the tomato thing was less triggering. 

Watch that Bubba shit - I'm still working on my Bubba-gut, and it's just not happening for me. Maybe I need to increase my beer intake. A case a night seems not to be quite sufficient! So, since my Bubba-gut is insufficient, it might be triggering to me, a cruel reminder of my inadequacies!

Now, I watch those cooking shows, because Grace keeps the TV on them and I feel a little bombarded... BUT, they seem to think acidic goes really well with sweet as a counterpoint, so I'm gonna call bullshit on your so-called fruit salad recipes. It could be, however, that those folks making those recipes just don't know anything about cookin'! Gordon Ramsey says differently, and he collects all them Michelin stars!

Since pineapples suck, I think replacing them with tomatoes would be just the ticket. I know what I'm talking about, because I watch all them cookin' shows.

I'm the exception to your rule - I am malicious, and I LOVE being called stupid! It means that the speaker has gained a false sense of security, and they won't see what's about to hit them....

ETA: on them cookin' shows, those folks are always, ALWAYS, making something they call "rue" It took me a while, but I think I finally figured out that what they are calling "rue" is what us hillbillies call "gravy", as in "biscuits and gravy". So that fancy cookin' shit was actually invented by us hillbillies. Don't mess with us in matters of cookin'!


.

[Snarl]

ATS slipping rapidly down the shitter

People seemed to stop posting what they thought. Guess they didn't want to get banned.

Tell ya the truth, I don't miss it at all anymore.

[Chiefsmom]

ETA: Some day, I want you to explain to me what is wrong with putting tomatoes in a fruit salad. After all, they ARE fruits, and I eat them just like I eat apples. You'll probably have to talk slow, and maybe spell some things, but I bet I can eventually get the gist of it!.

Well, Bubba, I suppose a redneck hillbilly wouldn't understand why most would find putting a tomato in a fruit salad might be unpalatable so it would be pointless to explain it.

You made me go look at fruit salad recipes. Tomato just wouldn't work.

Maybe I should change my quote to Hanlon's razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

What I have found though is some people just are malicious and they don't like being called stupid. See..I try to not be antagonistic and thought the tomato thing was less triggering. 

NO.
Just No!
I don't care what it is classified as, a tomato is a vegetable.
Proof?
Do you put fruit on a hamburger?
Do you put fruit on spaghetti?
Do you put fruit in Gulash?

See??????
It is a VEGETABLE!

LOL
(whoops, thought I was quoting Ninurtas last reply!)

And apparently, ATS is wielding the ban hammer today. Even though they just said they would be given warnings.
Sad state of affairs over there right now.

[SomeJackleg]

Updated with link, cause i found the right thread. their bouncing around from one to the other it kinda hard top keep up with i also updated my thread. i will edit the other post to.


i really sense a opportune time for for Rogue Growth. it seems that MRSDarko may have let the cat out of the bag.

Darko and I have been discussing this at length, and we are thinking that, If we did have a paywall, whatever's behind it (be it certain categories, or the entirety of the site) will have MUCH LESS moderation (Except member-on-member harassment and/or illegal material) ;

I know that from a regular member's perspective, this all may sound "absolutist", "reactionary", or "unnecessary". However, the point to all of this is that we don't need the outside perception of ATS to be "trans genocide: for or against it?", or for the site to be an easy target of some kind of setup for a false-flag, "white supremacist, anti-LGBTQ domestic terror attack" in the future (with everything going on right now, it's actually pretty plausible).

Also, we think that those that ARE willing to pay $5/mo for an exclusive ATS2.0 forum membership would value the forum more, be less likely to be rude to each other or the mods, & know that they're surrounded by people that also value the forum enough to pitch in to keep it a "Free speech forum", which would raise morale significantly from where it is right now. It's just like the late Terence McKenna said about the internet in general in the late 90's: When people have full anonymity, the worst parts of themselves come out in full force and they act in ways that they know they would never act in public, or at work, or even at home with their families. (Which, as we've seen repeatedly in the last month, just makes ATS a "place to vent" or an emotional dumping ground, when it could be SO. MUCH. MORE...

https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thr...id26996329

i for one will not be paying to read ATS plenty of other free forums. time to start sending those invites.
and they banned long time mod, Ahabstar, been a memeber since 2006. but he did tell them to. thinking in the mod forums he heard more stuff and what he heard in the thread pushed him over the edge.

[SomeJackleg]

edited this post cause i found the right one, so nothing was deleted.



his post,

It's always the ones paying the bills Advertisers, owners, or the community if it's a members community. We were just talking about putting up a paywall and that way the community pays the bills, so the community has a stake in the website. In fact, with a paywall, the pit and unmoderated forums would be no issue what so ever for us because it wouldn't misrepresent ATS.

Do you think it's worth $5 a month to have a platform where we can host unmoderated boards? I don't think the # posters will pay to # post. They only do it here because they think they can get away with it (and they have for a long time) but they would never put their money where their mouth is.
edit on 9-5-2023 by Darko because: (no reason given)

Darko's post

link works i just checked it and it's still there.





 a screen shot,













as i said i updated the post to correct my mistake.

[MisterSpock]

I know there are a few members over there I'd like to see pop in here, some of the older ones from my time lurking there and during my posting period. I started lurking in the early 2000's? 5 or 6 IIRC, started posting about 6 years after.

Be nice to see new membership here, but then again, I do like that's it's just a big group of familiar faces.

Forums are dying, it's a tough model in 2020's.