HISTORY OF THE MEDICINAL USE OF TOBACCO/NICOTINE

[Kenzo1]

Some old data redarding nicotine & tobacco health benefits , as some in RN are growing own tobacco if im not mistaken ..



A HISTORY OF THE MEDICINAL USE OF TOBACCO 1492 1860

[Ninurta]

To be clear, nicotine IS addictive, but only very mildly so. Sugars are probably more addictive. However, some of the chemicals that tobacco companies put into commercial tobacco are there just to potentiate or intensify the addictive property of nicotine.

I may be a living monument to the anti-covid properties of nicotine. While I do have a genetic resistance to covid, I also smoke AND sometimes smoke homegrown nicotiana rustica, which has on average 3 - 9 times the nicotine concentration of commercial tobacco (which is almost entirely the nicotiana tabacum species).

I did catch covid, twice, but both times it was like an extremely mild, barely-there cold, and never lasted for more than a day and a half.

Tomato leaves are used in some places as a tobacco substitute due to their nicotine content. It's possible to buy snuffs now made entirely of tomato leaves.

Parasites - My Dear Old Dad taught me to feed our horses chewing tobacco long, long ago. We did that to expel and prevent worms in the horses, and our horses never got worms. It didn't take much, just a small pile, less than a normal chew for a human, placed in the palm of the hand and fed to the horses. The molasses in the chewing tobacco made the horses love it. They thought we were giving them candy treats rather than medicine.

The tobacco I grow is nicotiana rustica, also called "sacred tobacco", "shaman tobacco", etc. The Muskogi Indians call it "little tobacco", due to it's diminutive size compared to nicotiana tabacum, or commercial tobacco. Where tabacum grows up to 6 or 7 feet tall with giant leaves, rustica only grows about 2 to 3 feet tall (the tallest plant I've grown was only 42" tall) and has smaller leaves. The largest leaf I've grown was about 9 or 10" wide, and 10 or 11 inches long.The leaves are usually a lot smaller.

Rustica has on average 3 to 9 times the nicotine content of tabacum, with the nicotine content increasing as you go up the plant, towards the flowers. Upper leaves right around the flower heads can have up to 20x the nicotine content of tabacum.

This year, in the past couple of months, I've smoked exclusively the husks from the seed pods themselves, after cleaning the seeds out, without ill effect. I just pack a regular pipe bowl with them, and they smoke the same as leaf does, but with a much higher nicotine content. WARNING: smoking a whole bowl of that material, and of that size,  might make your spirit leave your body for a bit and travel around. I limit it to half a bowl now, half a bowl later. Still woozies me up a bit, but not to the point of an astral projection.

My third wife used to call a cigarette a "breathing treatment", and we laughed at her when she did, but I've found that smoking the rustica when my lungs get clogged up clears them out paradoxically. I don't smoke the rustica every day, but when I get clogged up, it clears me out. The same can be said of eating hot peppers - something in them, probably the capsicum, clears my lungs. In the early 1600's, when tobacco was still a novelty in Europe, doctors prescribed it to "purge the body of superfluous humours", which I've found it to do an admirable job at.

Tobacco seeds have been shown to remain viable for 50+ years. I know that I have planted seeds that were 5 years old with a 100% germination rate. They are tiny, with about 3000 seeds to a gram, and each seed head will produce probably around 800 seeds in the rustica species. I now have enough seeds to last the rest of my life, and then some. I only grow a small plot, but every year generally get between 60,000 and 200,000 seeds from what I grow. I plant maybe 100 seeds every spring, and cull those down to about 30 - 40 plants usually, so every year my seed stash just grows and grows, with more seed now than I'll ever be able to use.

I've never had it take more than 2 days for my tobacco seeds to start sprouting.

The flowers of rustica are also different. They are trumpet-shaped, as are the flowers of all tobacco species, but shorter than the flowers of tabacum, and greenish-yellow, where all the tabacum flowers I've see anre genrally pink or white, and 3 to 5 inches long. Ristica flowers are 1 to 1 1/2 inches long. The seed heads are about 1/2 inch or about a centimeter in diameter.

We also have a stash of pure nicotine, USP grade. Some of it is 100 mg/ml, and some of it is 250 mg/ml. Be warned, it's expensive to get it that way. I think we gave $400 USD for around a gallon of it, and that was on a steep sale, about 1/2 off.. However, at concentrations of 250 mg/ml, a gallon should last damned near forever.

The doctor's mention of a treatment for A-fib using tobacco leaves piqued my interest. I have A-fib, and may try that treatment, since I have pretty easy access to raw tobacco leaves. I can tell you that the treatment prescribed, in my case Eliquis and metoprolol, has pretty much wrecked my health while keeping me alive - of what use is staying alive when quality of life is severely reduced via chemical consumption? If that treatment works, it might  be a godsend, although I don't know if my health will ever recover from what the pharma industry has done to wreck it, even if the tobacco treatment works.

Rustica is called "sacred tobacco" and "shaman's tobacco" because as a hallucinogen, and  in higher doses, it will give you the feeling of leaving your own body, and was used for that purpose by Indian medicine men, to speak to the spirits. You will actually feel as if your spirit is separating from your body and floating into another place. Ask me how I know.

The tobacco I grow is the same as was originally grown by the Indians in Virginia (which I have roots going back to - the Pamunkey tribe specifically) at contact with the Europeans. The tabacum variety only came here later, when John Rolf "imported" (actually smuggled, because export of tobacco seed was punishable by death under the Spanish authorities - they wanted to maintain their monopoly) around 1612. Rolfe had smuggled in a variety called "Orinoco" from the Caribbean, and it caught on amongst tobacco growers due to it's higher yield of leaf. The rest is history.

To respect the plant, and the native traditions surrounding it, I cannot sell it, neither leaf nor seed. It can be "gifted", however, while still respecting the traditions. A pouch of tobacco was a traditional gift to the village healer, tribal elders, and anyone else one desired to gift it to. That gifting also has, in some tribes, more tradition surrounding it. For example, if an elder refuses a gift of tobacco, it means he will not speak to you about the matter that you are seeking advice for.

Tobacco was also "gifted" to spirits. It would be sprinkled on the water for safe passage, and was often left behind to the spirit of a plant when harvesting a plant for use or consumption. small piles of it were occasionally left on rocks or stumps in he forest as  gifts to "The Little People" to curry their favor. It was used as a "smudge" to draw positive spirits and block negative spirits, and I knew at least one old Cherokee medicine man who would sprinkle it along the perimeter of a room, next to baseboards, to prevent access to that room by bad spirits. Sort of in the same way that Europeans used to use salt.

I have a long-time friend in North Carolina who is a member of the Lumbee tribe, which tribe was the subject of a fairly recent Executive Order to the Bureau of Indian Affairs to move forward on Federal recognition for the tribe. I've fixed up a package of rustica leaves and seed to send to him as a gift marking Federal recognition of his tribe. They have lost many of their traditions over time, and I think their original "sacred" tobacco is one of those traditions, so it's a way to get it back into the tribe for me.

Old timers here in the mountains used to use tobacco as a poultice to draw out venom from insect stings (a use they probably got from the Indians). They also used diced and mashed raw onions to draw out venom from snake bites. I combined the two - using snuff and onion powder, together with a little salt, all bound up in a lard base to hold them together and on the spot - to treat insect stings and festered puncture wounds, and it has worked tolerably well. I used it to draw out a thorn that had embedded in my foot once, although even at that there was a little cutting involved to finally extract it. It had been in there for about 4 months or so, to the point that gristle had started growing around it as the body's defense mechanism against a foreign body... which is why I think that the cutting was required. The poultice for about 3 days, followed by a little razor blade work and a pair of tweezers (splinter forceps) was all it took. Had I used the poultice earlier, the cutting and tweezers might not have been necessary.

Tobacco has a lot of medicinal uses, many of which will probably still have to be discovered, or re-discovered.

.

[Kenzo1]

A lot information about this Ninurta , thanks .


It does seem as there has been roughly 500 years documented benefits of tobacco plant .  I did not take so seriously talks about smoking tobacco giving protection from covid, but i am now....

Seems like there is a cover up , about benefits . It`s been like that with many beneficial substances .....they even try banning stuff that may be beneficial so the medico-pharma-complex can sell their poison more .


I cant smoke personnally , not the types they sell ....i feel like my brain get toxicated from tobacco....it may be the added additives they been using in tobacco products for decades. Never tryed natural version like what Ninurta have . Never tryed nicotine products .

[Ninurta]

A lot information about this Ninurta , thanks .


It does seem as there has been roughly 500 years documented benefits of tobacco plant .  I did not take so seriously talks about smoking tobacco giving protection from covid, but i am now....

Seems like there is a cover up , about benefits . It`s been like that with many beneficial substances .....they even try banning stuff that may be beneficial so the medico-pharma-complex can sell their poison more .


I cant smoke personnally , not the types they sell ....i feel like my brain get toxicated from tobacco....it may be the added additives they been using in tobacco products for decades. Never tryed natural version like what Ninurta have . Never tryed nicotine products .

Just to be clear, nicotine IS an intoxicant.. The first use will certainly produce intoxicating effects from light-headedness up to powerful purging, depending on type and ingestion method. The first time I smoked, it made me extremely light-headed, intoxicated, but the first time I chewed moist snuff (Copenhagen brand, as I recall, although it may have been Skoal), it threw me for a loop - I couldn't rise above my hands and knees, was extremely "drunk", and finally puked until I thought even my toenails were going to come up.

Those effects moderated in subsequent uses, leaving only a steadiness of nerves, calmness of attitude, and heightened awareness, moderated fatigue and hunger. In other words, continued use moderates the ill effects, probably as a result of it's addictive qualities. 

To be fair, the preparation I used those first times were commercially prepared cigarettes and snuff, so additives may have been a factor, but with subsequent use in later years of more natural, home-made preparations, I think the only factor affected by using them was a reduction of the addictive properties - the rest are full-blown, and depend on the strength of the tobacco involved rather than any additives since there were no additives included in the home-made preparations.

I also used to make home-made chewing tobacco with commercial (nicotiana tabacum) tobacco, but straight out of the field rather than processed through a factory where the harmful additives are added in. I'd go out tot the curing barn and strip off a few leaves, then lay them out flat and slather molasses in between each one, laying on the next and more molasses smeared, then the next, and so on until I had about 5 leaves laid out, sandwiched together, and coated in molasses. Then I'd twist them, bend them over and twist the ends together as one would a rope, leaving a loop at the top of the twist, and hang them to dry and finish curing. The final result was drier than commercial chewing tobacco, but also probably less harmful. It was also a little more bitter than commercial chewing tobacco, which I presume was due to the lack of flavoring additives found in the commercial variety.

I've never tried making any chewing tobacco out of the rustica I grow, because I left off from chewing tobacco several years ago.

All in all, I'd not recommend using tobacco constantly, especially commercial tobacco, because of it's addictive properties. Constant use causes not only an addiction, but also a bodily tolerance such that greater and greater doses are necessary to realize most medicinal effects.

As the Bible recommends, "moderation in all things".

I would guess, without any data, that the use against covid is probably due to lethality - killing the virus where it is found in the lungs and nasal passages - combined with blocking nicotine receptors giving the virus that gets through less of a foothold to gain purchase on until it is finally eliminated from the body having had little or no effect at infection.

.

[Kenzo1]

A lot information about this Ninurta , thanks .


It does seem as there has been roughly 500 years documented benefits of tobacco plant .  I did not take so seriously talks about smoking tobacco giving protection from covid, but i am now....

Seems like there is a cover up , about benefits . It`s been like that with many beneficial substances .....they even try banning stuff that may be beneficial so the medico-pharma-complex can sell their poison more .


I cant smoke personnally , not the types they sell ....i feel like my brain get toxicated from tobacco....it may be the added additives they been using in tobacco products for decades. Never tryed natural version like what Ninurta have . Never tryed nicotine products .

Just to be clear, nicotine IS an intoxicant.. The first use will certainly produce intoxicating effects from light-headedness up to powerful purging, depending on type and ingestion method. The first time I smoked, it made me extremely light-headed, intoxicated, but the first time I chewed moist snuff (Copenhagen brand, as I recall, although it may have been Skoal), it threw me for a loop - I couldn't rise above my hands and knees, was extremely "drunk", and finally puked until I thought even my toenails were going to come up.

Those effects moderated in subsequent uses, leaving only a steadiness of nerves, calmness of attitude, and heightened awareness, moderated fatigue and hunger. In other words, continued use moderates the ill effects, probably as a result of it's addictive qualities. 

To be fair, the preparation I used those first times were commercially prepared cigarettes and snuff, so additives may have been a factor, but with subsequent use in later years of more natural, home-made preparations, I think the only factor affected by using them was a reduction of the addictive properties - the rest are full-blown, and depend on the strength of the tobacco involved rather than any additives since there were no additives included in the home-made preparations.

I also used to make home-made chewing tobacco with commercial (nicotiana tabacum) tobacco, but straight out of the field rather than processed through a factory where the harmful additives are added in. I'd go out tot the curing barn and strip off a few leaves, then lay them out flat and slather molasses in between each one, laying on the next and more molasses smeared, then the next, and so on until I had about 5 leaves laid out, sandwiched together, and coated in molasses. Then I'd twist them, bend them over and twist the ends together as one would a rope, leaving a loop at the top of the twist, and hang them to dry and finish curing. The final result was drier than commercial chewing tobacco, but also probably less harmful. It was also a little more bitter than commercial chewing tobacco, which I presume was due to the lack of flavoring additives found in the commercial variety.

I've never tried making any chewing tobacco out of the rustica I grow, because I left off from chewing tobacco several years ago.

All in all, I'd not recommend using tobacco constantly, especially commercial tobacco, because of it's addictive properties. Constant use causes not only an addiction, but also a bodily tolerance such that greater and greater doses are necessary to realize most medicinal effects.

As the Bible recommends, "moderation in all things".

I would guess, without any data, that the use against covid is probably due to lethality - killing the virus where it is found in the lungs and nasal passages - combined with blocking nicotine receptors giving the virus that gets through less of a foothold to gain purchase on until it is finally eliminated from the body having had little or no effect at infection.

.

I allways had the feeling i am more sensitive to tobacco than most are, so it was very clearly not my substance , i simply could not just smoke . But some have smoked decades .

[rickymouse]

Tobacco has been considered a medicine for centuries.  Nicotine is a big part of that, but there are also other chemicals in tobacco that have medical benefits too.  Nicotine is addictive, if I drink coffee, since I do not break down methyl well from the caffeine, I have to smoke a cigarette or I get the jitters.  I also had a chronic cough when I was younger, from youth through my twenties.  Then at thirty something I started to smoke and the chronic cough disappeared.  I actually breath easier smoking.  Now I cannot smoke the majority of cigarettes, I used to smoke Winstons and also some of the Native American full flavor cigarettes.  Now I smoke the sun grown Lorado.  What do those three have in common, hardly any additives.  Also, the filter tubes I use for the cigarettes...I noticed something...the ones I have been using all along that are easier on my lungs and to draw through....they all are manufactured in Canada.  Now the filter material approved in Canada is regulated and of higher quality, less plastic in the smoke I think.  So I use Zig-Zag, and Gambler usually.

Now Canada has rules that any cigarette tubes made there must have canadian certified filters in them, whether sold there or exported.  So the filters are less of a problem on my lungs is what I sense, and I did not even realize this till I started investigating the filters I have no problem with and the tubes I have more problems with.....It was the country of manufacturer.  Now I can try to find cheaper filter tubes made in Canada.  But with the import tax, all the canadian filters went up...good way to find out which are not produced in the USA.  I remember when filters were made from cotton or some bamboo product years back, now they are made of a plastic compound....but because my cigarettes only cost about a buck twenty five a pack, I don't even get close to the filter....smoking about half or a little over half of the cigarette is easier on the lungs.  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

Now, if I don't drink coffee, I have no desire for a cigarette.  That is what brought me to search why, and I found out that both methyl and ethyl poisoning are treated with nicotine or nicotinic acid.  A cigarette brings the nicotine into the lungs, then into the blood and if you cannot break down methyl, the nicotine will quickly react with the methyl or ethyl and turn it into ammonia....hence, they made smoking in bars illegal, so they can give out more drunk driving tickets as a benefit...or just put on a patch.  When niacin is metabolized, it turns to nitric oxide...whether in the stomach or through digestive enzymes in saliva and probably in the lungs too.  too much can make you light headed or dizzy, because it lowers blood pressure quickly if you are dehydrated.

Man, I can go on and on with methods of action of chemicals we consume or in this case inhale that have effects on humans.

[Kenzo1]

Tobacco has been considered a medicine for centuries.  Nicotine is a big part of that, but there are also other chemicals in tobacco that have medical benefits too.  Nicotine is addictive, if I drink coffee, since I do not break down methyl well from the caffeine, I have to smoke a cigarette or I get the jitters.  I also had a chronic cough when I was younger, from youth through my twenties.  Then at thirty something I started to smoke and the chronic cough disappeared.  I actually breath easier smoking.  Now I cannot smoke the majority of cigarettes, I used to smoke Winstons and also some of the Native American full flavor cigarettes.  Now I smoke the sun grown Lorado.  What do those three have in common, hardly any additives.  Also, the filter tubes I use for the cigarettes...I noticed something...the ones I have been using all along that are easier on my lungs and to draw through....they all are manufactured in Canada.  Now the filter material approved in Canada is regulated and of higher quality, less plastic in the smoke I think.  So I use Zig-Zag, and Gambler usually.

Now Canada has rules that any cigarette tubes made there must have canadian certified filters in them, whether sold there or exported.  So the filters are less of a problem on my lungs is what I sense, and I did not even realize this till I started investigating the filters I have no problem with and the tubes I have more problems with.....It was the country of manufacturer.  Now I can try to find cheaper filter tubes made in Canada.  But with the import tax, all the canadian filters went up...good way to find out which are not produced in the USA.  I remember when filters were made from cotton or some bamboo product years back, now they are made of a plastic compound....but because my cigarettes only cost about a buck twenty five a pack, I don't even get close to the filter....smoking about half or a little over half of the cigarette is easier on the lungs.  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

Now, if I don't drink coffee, I have no desire for a cigarette.  That is what brought me to search why, and I found out that both methyl and ethyl poisoning are treated with nicotine or nicotinic acid.  A cigarette brings the nicotine into the lungs, then into the blood and if you cannot break down methyl, the nicotine will quickly react with the methyl or ethyl and turn it into ammonia....hence, they made smoking in bars illegal, so they can give out more drunk driving tickets as a benefit...or just put on a patch.  When niacin is metabolized, it turns to nitric oxide...whether in the stomach or through digestive enzymes in saliva and probably in the lungs too.  too much can make you light headed or dizzy, because it lowers blood pressure quickly if you are dehydrated.

Man, I can go on and on with methods of action of chemicals we consume or in this case inhale that have effects on humans.

I am not sure but remembering that molybdenum can break down methyl groups also ?

[Ninurta]

I allways had the feeling i am more sensitive to tobacco than most are, so it was very clearly not my substance , i simply could not just smoke . But some have smoked decades .

Very likely. We all know ourselves better than anyone else does.

Nicotine processing, and therefore smoking behaviors, are in part regulated by genetics. Some people have a "smoking gene" where others do not. Oddly, perhaps, Neanderthals were found to have a gene influencing smoking behaviors and nicotine processing, and no one knows why they had it - Neanderthals did not have tobacco in their European / west Asian stomping grounds of the time, nor did they have tomatoes or potatoes - all of those nicotine-bearing crops are of western hemisphere origin.

Research into the matter is ongoing, because nicotine has been found in Egyptian mummies and the bones of some pre-Columbian Germans, so folks want to know how it got in them, and where it came from..

In the Americas, tobacco use has been documented going back at least 12,500 years, so perhaps farther back. At a site in what is now Utah, tobacco seeds were discovered around the remains of an ancient (Archaic [think: Clovis] era) times fire, from 12,500 years ago. Those seeds were probably from either nicotiana quadrivalvis or nicotiana bigelovii, which are two species of tobacco which grow wild in the western United States.

Tobacco smoking has been shown to go back nearly 4000 years in North America, demonstrated by nicotine residues in smoking pipes dated to about 1800 BC in the southeastern Untied States. However, pipes have been found that are older, back to about 3000 BC, and tobacco may have been at least one of the materials smoked in them.

Before smoking, tobacco was probably chewed, which is presumed to be the method of ingestion used at the Archaic era site in Utah. Spitting, or else discarding a spent quid, towards the fire is the proposed mechanism for the deposition of the seeds found.

.

[Ninurta]

...
  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

...

Vaping is probably a bad juju no-go for you as well, since the nicotine in vapes is suspended in PG, with VG being another additive in the mixture. I know the mixture because Grace makes our own vape juice, which is why we have the USP grade nicotine to begin with.

So, when they ban flavored vapes - or maybe they already have... I don't get out much - we'll still be good to go, since we have enough stuff to make our own for the next 20 years.

I had to stop vaping, as it seemed to be gunking up my lungs far worse than even commercial tobacco does, and I blame the PG/VG mixture for that.

Smoking some home-grown rustica fixed that gunking-up problem for me by expelling the gunk..

.

[rickymouse]

Tobacco has been considered a medicine for centuries.  Nicotine is a big part of that, but there are also other chemicals in tobacco that have medical benefits too.  Nicotine is addictive, if I drink coffee, since I do not break down methyl well from the caffeine, I have to smoke a cigarette or I get the jitters.  I also had a chronic cough when I was younger, from youth through my twenties.  Then at thirty something I started to smoke and the chronic cough disappeared.  I actually breath easier smoking.  Now I cannot smoke the majority of cigarettes, I used to smoke Winstons and also some of the Native American full flavor cigarettes.  Now I smoke the sun grown Lorado.  What do those three have in common, hardly any additives.  Also, the filter tubes I use for the cigarettes...I noticed something...the ones I have been using all along that are easier on my lungs and to draw through....they all are manufactured in Canada.  Now the filter material approved in Canada is regulated and of higher quality, less plastic in the smoke I think.  So I use Zig-Zag, and Gambler usually.

Now Canada has rules that any cigarette tubes made there must have canadian certified filters in them, whether sold there or exported.  So the filters are less of a problem on my lungs is what I sense, and I did not even realize this till I started investigating the filters I have no problem with and the tubes I have more problems with.....It was the country of manufacturer.  Now I can try to find cheaper filter tubes made in Canada.  But with the import tax, all the canadian filters went up...good way to find out which are not produced in the USA.  I remember when filters were made from cotton or some bamboo product years back, now they are made of a plastic compound....but because my cigarettes only cost about a buck twenty five a pack, I don't even get close to the filter....smoking about half or a little over half of the cigarette is easier on the lungs.  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

Now, if I don't drink coffee, I have no desire for a cigarette.  That is what brought me to search why, and I found out that both methyl and ethyl poisoning are treated with nicotine or nicotinic acid.  A cigarette brings the nicotine into the lungs, then into the blood and if you cannot break down methyl, the nicotine will quickly react with the methyl or ethyl and turn it into ammonia....hence, they made smoking in bars illegal, so they can give out more drunk driving tickets as a benefit...or just put on a patch.  When niacin is metabolized, it turns to nitric oxide...whether in the stomach or through digestive enzymes in saliva and probably in the lungs too.  too much can make you light headed or dizzy, because it lowers blood pressure quickly if you are dehydrated.

Man, I can go on and on with methods of action of chemicals we consume or in this case inhale that have effects on humans.

I am not sure but remembering that molybdenum can break down methyl groups also ?

Some types of methyl issues can be broken down with molybdenum supplements, but it does not work with me at all.  I have been taking a molybdenum supplement as part of my anti-epileptic treatment for years, and it doesn't seem to help me to break down methyl groups much.  But I do have some negatives in the MOCO genetics and maybe because of that, molybdenum might not work for that use.  It does help break down xanthians, but not caffeine.  The whole enzyme system has multiple enzymes involved, just to do a process, a disruption in one enzyme can lead to a disfunction of other enzymes down the road.  The molybdenum supplement somewhat helps my intolerance to aldehydes, but still will not take away the problem with three day hangovers off of three beers.  But it does help somewhat to dampen my response to aldehydes in perfumes.  Now I have moth a Moco deficiency and a deunct aldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme.  so that part is not helped.  I can break alcohol down well, but get left with aldehydes, and I smell like an old man after drinking, my liver might not be able to break down aldehydes, but my skin can eject it.  I try to avoid some of the foods that need the aldehyde enzymes and I don;t smell so much like an old man.  I hate that smell.  Aldehydes from fruits not so bad, I smell like the fruit.  But booze and beer, the alcohol metabolism leaves a lot of aldehydes.

Now that ability to break down methyls isn't a problem if you are working and sweating, I could outwork almost anyone I knew, and my workers knew I was a workaholic when I had my business.  So did my friends.  and my wife.  After working twelve hours I came home and worked on the cars, mowed the grass, cut firewood, and prepped for the crew for the next day.  The crew put in eight hours and went home, I would take little jobs after having some coffee at the restaurant...and go out and work another four hours  I would put in a garage door, storm door, or go help a friend put in a window or work on their house after work.  I also built things in my shop and in my spare time, I built my house, garages, storage building, and worked on my vehicles.  I suppose that genetics is good genetics if you want to work all the time.  As I was working, somehow the methyl was not a problem, only needed a cigarette if I took a break usually..which didn't happen very often being I loved to work.

Then I got epilepsy from a car accident...just think how hard it is to go from being always going, almost like speeding, then going to where if my brain got excited or if I work I would have partial seizures.  I had severe withdrawls when I could not work anymore.

---

...
  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

...

Vaping is probably a bad juju no-go for you as well, since the nicotine in vapes is suspended in PG, with VG being another additive in the mixture. I know the mixture because Grace makes our own vape juice, which is why we have the USP grade nicotine to begin with.

So, when they ban flavored vapes - or maybe they already have... I don't get out much - we'll still be good to go, since we have enough stuff to make our own for the next 20 years.

I had to stop vaping, as it seemed to be gunking up my lungs far worse than even commercial tobacco does, and I blame the PG/VG mixture for that.

Smoking some home-grown rustica fixed that gunking-up problem for me by expelling the gunk..

.

PG actually makes my lungs fill water logged.  It is an emulsifier.  It will bring things into the cells and into the circulatory system, basically increasing the intake of the chemicals going into the body.  When used on creams for the skin, it plumps up the cells making the skin smoother looking...so think about what it does to the cells of your lungs.  It makes them not work as well to get oxygen and I believe that would be the same for anyone.  In shampoos, it smooths my partly bald head, but it does not let the gasses of metabolism leave the area, so my head gets itchy and pinkish in color.  So relate that to your lungs, you do not just get oxygen from your lungs, they excrete lots of metabolic chemicals  that are formed from metabolic processes.  So swelling them up means that you are keeping metabolic toxins in your body.  Emulcifiers can be problematic, in fact, tomato chemistry is emulsifier chemistry too, and it causes hives for me if I over indulge in tomatoes...my forehead and in my hair I get some hives, and I get itchy in various places if I eat more than one meal with tomatoes in it.  It also causes issues in my gut if I eat too much tomatoes....  Tomatoes, like other emulsifiers, will allow oils to mix with water and increase absorption....think about that, why do we have high cholesterol from foods.  Other emulsifiers are things like carrageenan and even xanthian mum in Ice cream and heavy creams.  But xanthian gum has some beneficial properties...where I cannot find much good about carrageenan other than it can have some specific antiviral chemistries...but those antiviral chemistries from carrageenan are problably negated by the fact it is bringing in extra lipids into the blood stream....but that is just a hypothesis I created, I have not seen any testing done on that, only that it makes fats mix with water better and get absorbed better.

[Kenzo1]

Tobacco has been considered a medicine for centuries.  Nicotine is a big part of that, but there are also other chemicals in tobacco that have medical benefits too.  Nicotine is addictive, if I drink coffee, since I do not break down methyl well from the caffeine, I have to smoke a cigarette or I get the jitters.  I also had a chronic cough when I was younger, from youth through my twenties.  Then at thirty something I started to smoke and the chronic cough disappeared.  I actually breath easier smoking.  Now I cannot smoke the majority of cigarettes, I used to smoke Winstons and also some of the Native American full flavor cigarettes.  Now I smoke the sun grown Lorado.  What do those three have in common, hardly any additives.  Also, the filter tubes I use for the cigarettes...I noticed something...the ones I have been using all along that are easier on my lungs and to draw through....they all are manufactured in Canada.  Now the filter material approved in Canada is regulated and of higher quality, less plastic in the smoke I think.  So I use Zig-Zag, and Gambler usually.

Now Canada has rules that any cigarette tubes made there must have canadian certified filters in them, whether sold there or exported.  So the filters are less of a problem on my lungs is what I sense, and I did not even realize this till I started investigating the filters I have no problem with and the tubes I have more problems with.....It was the country of manufacturer.  Now I can try to find cheaper filter tubes made in Canada.  But with the import tax, all the canadian filters went up...good way to find out which are not produced in the USA.  I remember when filters were made from cotton or some bamboo product years back, now they are made of a plastic compound....but because my cigarettes only cost about a buck twenty five a pack, I don't even get close to the filter....smoking about half or a little over half of the cigarette is easier on the lungs.  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

Now, if I don't drink coffee, I have no desire for a cigarette.  That is what brought me to search why, and I found out that both methyl and ethyl poisoning are treated with nicotine or nicotinic acid.  A cigarette brings the nicotine into the lungs, then into the blood and if you cannot break down methyl, the nicotine will quickly react with the methyl or ethyl and turn it into ammonia....hence, they made smoking in bars illegal, so they can give out more drunk driving tickets as a benefit...or just put on a patch.  When niacin is metabolized, it turns to nitric oxide...whether in the stomach or through digestive enzymes in saliva and probably in the lungs too.  too much can make you light headed or dizzy, because it lowers blood pressure quickly if you are dehydrated.

Man, I can go on and on with methods of action of chemicals we consume or in this case inhale that have effects on humans.

I am not sure but remembering that molybdenum can break down methyl groups also ?

Some types of methyl issues can be broken down with molybdenum supplements, but it does not work with me at all.  I have been taking a molybdenum supplement as part of my anti-epileptic treatment for years, and it doesn't seem to help me to break down methyl groups much.  But I do have some negatives in the MOCO genetics and maybe because of that, molybdenum might not work for that use.  It does help break down xanthians, but not caffeine.  The whole enzyme system has multiple enzymes involved, just to do a process, a disruption in one enzyme can lead to a disfunction of other enzymes down the road.  The molybdenum supplement somewhat helps my intolerance to aldehydes, but still will not take away the problem with three day hangovers off of three beers.  But it does help somewhat to dampen my response to aldehydes in perfumes.  Now I have moth a Moco deficiency and a deunct aldehyde dehydrogenase enzyme.  so that part is not helped.  I can break alcohol down well, but get left with aldehydes, and I smell like an old man after drinking, my liver might not be able to break down aldehydes, but my skin can eject it.  I try to avoid some of the foods that need the aldehyde enzymes and I don;t smell so much like an old man.  I hate that smell.  Aldehydes from fruits not so bad, I smell like the fruit.  But booze and beer, the alcohol metabolism leaves a lot of aldehydes.

Now that ability to break down methyls isn't a problem if you are working and sweating, I could outwork almost anyone I knew, and my workers knew I was a workaholic when I had my business.  So did my friends.  and my wife.  After working twelve hours I came home and worked on the cars, mowed the grass, cut firewood, and prepped for the crew for the next day.  The crew put in eight hours and went home, I would take little jobs after having some coffee at the restaurant...and go out and work another four hours  I would put in a garage door, storm door, or go help a friend put in a window or work on their house after work.  I also built things in my shop and in my spare time, I built my house, garages, storage building, and worked on my vehicles.  I suppose that genetics is good genetics if you want to work all the time.  As I was working, somehow the methyl was not a problem, only needed a cigarette if I took a break usually..which didn't happen very often being I loved to work.

Then I got epilepsy from a car accident...just think how hard it is to go from being always going, almost like speeding, then going to where if my brain got excited or if I work I would have partial seizures.  I had severe withdrawls when I could not work anymore.

---

...
  I also am intolerant to Propylene glycol, a chemical they put in tobacco....so the more natural ones don't seem to have that.  Is pyrazine and propylene glycol related?  Well, the pyrazine is often mixed in propylene glycol so maybe that is where the pyrazine is added.

...

Vaping is probably a bad juju no-go for you as well, since the nicotine in vapes is suspended in PG, with VG being another additive in the mixture. I know the mixture because Grace makes our own vape juice, which is why we have the USP grade nicotine to begin with.

So, when they ban flavored vapes - or maybe they already have... I don't get out much - we'll still be good to go, since we have enough stuff to make our own for the next 20 years.

I had to stop vaping, as it seemed to be gunking up my lungs far worse than even commercial tobacco does, and I blame the PG/VG mixture for that.

Smoking some home-grown rustica fixed that gunking-up problem for me by expelling the gunk..

.

PG actually makes my lungs fill water logged.  It is an emulsifier.  It will bring things into the cells and into the circulatory system, basically increasing the intake of the chemicals going into the body.  When used on creams for the skin, it plumps up the cells making the skin smoother looking...so think about what it does to the cells of your lungs.  It makes them not work as well to get oxygen and I believe that would be the same for anyone.  In shampoos, it smooths my partly bald head, but it does not let the gasses of metabolism leave the area, so my head gets itchy and pinkish in color.  So relate that to your lungs, you do not just get oxygen from your lungs, they excrete lots of metabolic chemicals  that are formed from metabolic processes.  So swelling them up means that you are keeping metabolic toxins in your body.  Emulcifiers can be problematic, in fact, tomato chemistry is emulsifier chemistry too, and it causes hives for me if I over indulge in tomatoes...my forehead and in my hair I get some hives, and I get itchy in various places if I eat more than one meal with tomatoes in it.  It also causes issues in my gut if I eat too much tomatoes....  Tomatoes, like other emulsifiers, will allow oils to mix with water and increase absorption....think about that, why do we have high cholesterol from foods.  Other emulsifiers are things like carrageenan and even xanthian mum in Ice cream and heavy creams.  But xanthian gum has some beneficial properties...where I cannot find much good about carrageenan other than it can have some specific antiviral chemistries...but those antiviral chemistries from carrageenan are problably negated by the fact it is bringing in extra lipids into the blood stream....but that is just a hypothesis I created, I have not seen any testing done on that, only that it makes fats mix with water better and get absorbed better.

Is your  alcohol intolerance , or as you say the intolerance to aldehydes same or different than ALDH2 deficiency ?

Anyway , have you ever read about probiotic products that are made just for making drinking alcohol a hassle free happening?

Pre-Alcohol

Say No to Glow: Reducing the Carcinogenic Effects of ALDH2 Deficiency

Thought it look`s as those can help only with people who have ALDH2 deficiency .

Probiotic for Asian flush

[rickymouse]

.

Is your  alcohol intolerance , or as you say the intolerance to aldehydes same or different than ALDH2 deficiency ?

Anyway , have you ever read about probiotic products that are made just for making drinking alcohol a hassle free happening?

Pre-Alcohol

Say No to Glow: Reducing the Carcinogenic Effects of ALDH2 Deficiency

Thought it look`s as those can help only with people who have ALDH2 deficiency .

Probiotic for Asian flush

ALDH2 deficiency, that is what I have genetically.  It mostly causes headaches for me.  Molybdenum probably helps a little, but alcohol is broke down by alcohol dehydrogenase to aldehyde, and I do not have a problem breaking down alcohol at all.  But that headache and brain fog isn't worth all the pain...when I was young and single, it was worth it but that was because I was shy when sober and was constantly evaluating everything when sober.  In the genetics profile I am the worrier, not the warrier.  so I evaluate everything, I analyze everyone's actions, and when drinking I would do what others were doing and screw the risk assessment...another words I had more fun.

I tried probiotics a few times, but some of the microbes in the different formulas I had problems with.  I have the cheese headaches...have had those as long as I can remember and the doctor called them cheese headaches when I got diagnosed with them finally, when I was around fifteen.  They are tyramine headaches, can't break down tyramines well.  Putramine, cadavarine, and histamines are a major part of my intolerance, but so are all the types of tyramines.  I can eat cheap cheeses, but not the good stuff.  I can't do sourkraut or Kimchi...but good kimchi is worth the headache.  I can eat the cheaper yogurts, but not the ones with the active cultures.  I can eat some bread, but not a lot, that even gives me headaches if I eat a lot because of the chemicals created by the yeast.  But I can eat biscuits made with baking powder or baking soda...but again, not a real lot...that is a seperate inherited genetic problem.  That is because I lack some disaccaride enzymes so I cannot break down sugar well...but even though I can break down starches by a different secondary enzyme, It cannot tolerate a lot of breads or mannose/maltose metabolism.  Potatoes are fine....but I am not totally sure, I want to eat some carbs, so I like spuds so am not even try to evaluate if my intolerance applies to spuds....playing ignorant on that one.  But I evaluated some things, I have no problem with fried thin cut potatoes with onions.  I guess pan frying or should I say sauteeing them kind of breaks down the maltose via the maliard reaction to glucose.  So I can also toast bread to have with eggs with no stomach or intestinal issues.

Surprising what you can learn by actually studying your problems that you learned you had from genetic apps. I knew from young that I was intolerant to breads...my dad warned me....you will get impackted like a cow if you eat too much.  I had to spell impacted to make it sound the way he stated it.  And I learned that that was true over decades, and my sister didn't, she had to have part of her intestine removed and her body was always full of imflamation, she died at forty years old.  She liked breads, probably since there are four types of opiate peptides in wheat, and three kinds of opiate peptides in milk....all bioactive.  Now you know why they brought wheat seeds/grains to give to the people in the countries they overthrew during the crusades long ago.  They doped the people up so they would accept christianity and follow the new leaders that they had.  They might not have known the science behind wheat controlling the populations back then, they just knew it made people easier to control.  If I eat too much bread, those opiates slow my digestion down too much leading to constipation, almost like the opiate based pain relievers do.  That is also why some cheeses cause constipation I guess.  They dampen the parastalic action.  Bread does not really fill you up, it actually slows digestion of things, so it suppresses hunger but it does not suppress the hunger created by the need for nutrients...so it causes a person to eat more to turn off the hungry feeling, which does not suppress the glucose from being taken up from the gut so we get fat.

Ok too much off topic info given already for my post.

I'm trying to find companion food chemistry to deal with my issues, and doing elimination of certain foods in my analysis too.  But I am married, it took me over a year to find out for sure I can not eat potatoes and bananas in the same two or three day period, or I get a rash between my legs....I have the class one to class two chitinase reaction which causes me to be allergic to latex in clothes.  I usually wear all cotton clothes, but underwear has latex rubber in it.  Also the reaction also happens with vanilla.  and vanilla and bananas have a chemistry in them similar to propylene glycol, so much that double acting vanilla has half propylene glycol in it.  I can tolerate the real organic vanilla better, the Madagascar type...but only because at half the amount it has the same flavor as the cheaper ones...so we use half the real organic vanilla in recipies, and even though it is more expensive, it is cheaper because it is more potent in flavor.

I am doing all of this from memory, and I never memorized how to spell this stuff, I would rather concentrate on memorizing the methods of action of things....so try to sound it out to look this stuff up.

[Kenzo1]

.

Is your  alcohol intolerance , or as you say the intolerance to aldehydes same or different than ALDH2 deficiency ?

Anyway , have you ever read about probiotic products that are made just for making drinking alcohol a hassle free happening?

Pre-Alcohol

Say No to Glow: Reducing the Carcinogenic Effects of ALDH2 Deficiency

Thought it look`s as those can help only with people who have ALDH2 deficiency .

Probiotic for Asian flush

ALDH2 deficiency, that is what I have genetically.  It mostly causes headaches for me.  Molybdenum probably helps a little, but alcohol is broke down by alcohol dehydrogenase to aldehyde, and I do not have a problem breaking down alcohol at all.  But that headache and brain fog isn't worth all the pain...when I was young and single, it was worth it but that was because I was shy when sober and was constantly evaluating everything when sober.  In the genetics profile I am the worrier, not the warrier.  so I evaluate everything, I analyze everyone's actions, and when drinking I would do what others were doing and screw the risk assessment...another words I had more fun.

I tried probiotics a few times, but some of the microbes in the different formulas I had problems with.  I have the cheese headaches...have had those as long as I can remember and the doctor called them cheese headaches when I got diagnosed with them finally, when I was around fifteen.  They are tyramine headaches, can't break down tyramines well.  Putramine, cadavarine, and histamines are a major part of my intolerance, but so are all the types of tyramines.  I can eat cheap cheeses, but not the good stuff.  I can't do sourkraut or Kimchi...but good kimchi is worth the headache.  I can eat the cheaper yogurts, but not the ones with the active cultures.  I can eat some bread, but not a lot, that even gives me headaches if I eat a lot because of the chemicals created by the yeast.  But I can eat biscuits made with baking powder or baking soda...but again, not a real lot...that is a seperate inherited genetic problem.  That is because I lack some disaccaride enzymes so I cannot break down sugar well...but even though I can break down starches by a different secondary enzyme, It cannot tolerate a lot of breads or mannose/maltose metabolism.  Potatoes are fine....but I am not totally sure, I want to eat some carbs, so I like spuds so am not even try to evaluate if my intolerance applies to spuds....playing ignorant on that one.  But I evaluated some things, I have no problem with fried thin cut potatoes with onions.  I guess pan frying or should I say sauteeing them kind of breaks down the maltose via the maliard reaction to glucose.  So I can also toast bread to have with eggs with no stomach or intestinal issues.

Surprising what you can learn by actually studying your problems that you learned you had from genetic apps. I knew from young that I was intolerant to breads...my dad warned me....you will get impackted like a cow if you eat too much.  I had to spell impacted to make it sound the way he stated it.  And I learned that that was true over decades, and my sister didn't, she had to have part of her intestine removed and her body was always full of imflamation, she died at forty years old.  She liked breads, probably since there are four types of opiate peptides in wheat, and three kinds of opiate peptides in milk....all bioactive.  Now you know why they brought wheat seeds/grains to give to the people in the countries they overthrew during the crusades long ago.  They doped the people up so they would accept christianity and follow the new leaders that they had.  They might not have known the science behind wheat controlling the populations back then, they just knew it made people easier to control.  If I eat too much bread, those opiates slow my digestion down too much leading to constipation, almost like the opiate based pain relievers do.  That is also why some cheeses cause constipation I guess.  They dampen the parastalic action.  Bread does not really fill you up, it actually slows digestion of things, so it suppresses hunger but it does not suppress the hunger created by the need for nutrients...so it causes a person to eat more to turn off the hungry feeling, which does not suppress the glucose from being taken up from the gut so we get fat.

Ok too much off topic info given already for my post.

I'm trying to find companion food chemistry to deal with my issues, and doing elimination of certain foods in my analysis too.  But I am married, it took me over a year to find out for sure I can not eat potatoes and bananas in the same two or three day period, or I get a rash between my legs....I have the class one to class two chitinase reaction which causes me to be allergic to latex in clothes.  I usually wear all cotton clothes, but underwear has latex rubber in it.  Also the reaction also happens with vanilla.  and vanilla and bananas have a chemistry in them similar to propylene glycol, so much that double acting vanilla has half propylene glycol in it.  I can tolerate the real organic vanilla better, the Madagascar type...but only because at half the amount it has the same flavor as the cheaper ones...so we use half the real organic vanilla in recipies, and even though it is more expensive, it is cheaper because it is more potent in flavor.

I am doing all of this from memory, and I never memorized how to spell this stuff, I would rather concentrate on memorizing the methods of action of things....so try to sound it out to look this stuff up.

These are not easy things to know all rickymouse , human biology is  complicated   


I been trying to look/understand the vitamin B9 , as it is related to methylation & MTHFR   

It look`s somehow important to methylation but also to regulating histamines, maybe mast cells also . Then comes all the different forms , and opinions.... been using methyl version , but there is also folinic acid which i never tryed ...

[Ninurta]

...

Surprising what you can learn by actually studying your problems that you learned you had from genetic apps. I knew from young that I was intolerant to breads...

...

Have you tried researching your deep genetic ancestry to determine what they ate? By "deep" I don't mean 100 years ago, or even 200 years ago, but millennia ago. You won't have names for them, but you can find out where your genetic patterns came from most strongly.

I ask because back in the 1970's, I read a book by a doctor named Jethro Kloss. "Back to Eden" I think it was called. He was a doctor, but dabbled quite a bit in herbal medicine. He had a theory that your deep ancestry determined what food you were genetically predisposed to react well to. It sort of makes sense - back in those days, if they ate disagreeable stuff, they were more likely to die early and not pass on their genes, so the genes that got passed down to you were from the people who got along well with what they ate.

Sea peoples ate fish and seafood, pastoralists ate meat and milk and developed lactose tolerance to be passed on, etc. Some societies went heavier on greens, some went heavier on fruit, some went heavier on meat, and so forth, and those tolerances got passed on genetically.

As an example, my deep ancestors drank mostly water, mead, and beer. My metabolism, as it turns out, gets along pretty well with those things. They ate barley bannock, fish, maize, and red meat, and my constitution handles those pretty well, too. They DIDN'T eat fowl like chicken, and as it turns out, chicken, turkey, etc doesn't agree with me at all.

They also ate some stuff I'll never be able to even pronounce, much less ever be able to make.

Might be something to check into.

.

[rickymouse]

.

These are not easy things to know all rickymouse , human biology is  complicated   


I been trying to look/understand the vitamin B9 , as it is related to methylation & MTHFR   

It look`s somehow important to methylation but also to regulating histamines, maybe mast cells also . Then comes all the different forms , and opinions.... been using methyl version , but there is also folinic acid which i never tryed ...

I take the methyl version of Folate and avoid the folic acid supplements that are not methyl forms.  Folinic acid was in some of the combos I tried, and it is about the same as folate.    I have the A1298C double c that is my problem, it does not increase homocysteine levels, but coupled with other methylation doubles it can cause some problems.  One of those problems is increased risk of brain cancer...my father died from brain cancer, and his kind was related most likely to DDT he sprayed on some of the crops in the sixties before it was banned.  But this gene might have something to do with it too.  I do not have any copies of the problematic 677 that are a problem with homocysteine, and even one copy of the 1298 coupled with one 677 is worse than what I have.  So having a constant small amount of methylfolate each day helps to keep things better because I have a constant supply available to give me full time coverage all day long...at least that is what I think is going on since it helps me quite a bit.  I also do better with the methyl and adeno cobalamins but the cyano version occasionally doesn't hurt, but too long and the cyanocobalamin does drag me down in energy and thinking ability.  I have not tried the hydroxo version of cobalamin....I think you need a prescription for that and that is used for some kinds of poisoning.

I studied this intensively, many hundreds of research articles and studies talking about the methylation problems.  I cannot test things on myself to find solutions to problems caused by other genetic conditions others have, just the ones I have.

I have plenty of weird genes, I think that my wife married me because she loves cats and I share some genetic traits with cats....The molybdenum coenzyme is necessary to make sulfite oxidase, and the sulfite oxidase is necessary to make taurine in the liver, and also to utilize taurine in the body.  So that means since taurine can treat epilepsy, I also need molybdenum supplements to keep the seizure risk down.  Taurine is found in raw meat, and molybdenum is high in grasses that produce grains, like rye grass...cats like cat grass, it contains molybdenum and most likely the grass contains methylfolate which they also may need.  Rice also is rich in molybdenum, but because it is high in molybdenum the rice can contain arsenic and heavy metals, because molybdenum chealates metals well, Thiomolybdates are used to detox people in medicine for some kinds of poisoning, but also be cautious, if you have more molybdenum and you eat foods with arsenic, you might possibly take in more arsenic too.  Also take copper with molybdenum supplements or a person could get a deficiency in copper after a while which might make a person frail because copper is needed to make collagen.

There are hundreds of ways to interpret things, which makes it hard to explain and people have the idea if a little helps, a lot will do even better....too much medicine can cause problems, even tobacco is a medicine, it can cause problems if a person smokes too much...had to put that in to make it so I am not creating an off topic post.

---

...

Surprising what you can learn by actually studying your problems that you learned you had from genetic apps. I knew from young that I was intolerant to breads...

...

Have you tried researching your deep genetic ancestry to determine what they ate? By "deep" I don't mean 100 years ago, or even 200 years ago, but millennia ago. You won't have names for them, but you can find out where your genetic patterns came from most strongly.

I ask because back in the 1970's, I read a book by a doctor named Jethro Kloss. "Back to Eden" I think it was called. He was a doctor, but dabbled quite a bit in herbal medicine. He had a theory that your deep ancestry determined what food you were genetically predisposed to react well to. It sort of makes sense - back in those days, if they ate disagreeable stuff, they were more likely to die early and not pass on their genes, so the genes that got passed down to you were from the people who got along well with what they ate.

Sea peoples ate fish and seafood, pastoralists ate meat and milk and developed lactose tolerance to be passed on, etc. Some societies went heavier on greens, some went heavier on fruit, some went heavier on meat, and so forth, and those tolerances got passed on genetically.

As an example, my deep ancestors drank mostly water, mead, and beer. My metabolism, as it turns out, gets along pretty well with those things. They ate barley bannock, fish, maize, and red meat, and my constitution handles those pretty well, too. They DIDN'T eat fowl like chicken, and as it turns out, chicken, turkey, etc doesn't agree with me at all.

They also ate some stuff I'll never be able to even pronounce, much less ever be able to make.

Might be something to check into.

.

I read Back to eden many years ago.  It was a good book. 

I have genetics related to the Inuit people.  It is paternal DNA but because lots of Finnish women have that genetics in Xs I have some of the full blown food necessities of the inuit...but not all.  I am only one point seven percent Inuit according to My Herritage, and it appears that is all in metabolism.  Only three percent of Northern European men have the paternal genetics of the Inuit....other than the Inuit of course, most of the inuit males have the paternal version if their fathers were Inuit.  But other than having minor shoveling on the back of my teeth, and big teeth with long canines that made me make a good vampire at Halloween when I was a kid, I don't look like the Inuit, other than when I go out in the sun a lot I turn really dark, and I am a dark Finn...my skin is darker than most of them.

It takes about four generations for a person to adapt to a new food without problems from my research, incorporating a little more in each generation.  Well look at the USA and what health science is doing, telling people to eat super foods.  It is causing more health issues than anything.  But they say science says it is healthier, yeah, the people in sardenia have been eating their local fish for thousands of years..warm water fish that contain more histamines than cold water fish.  The fish in warm water have adapted and increased Histadine and histamine in their tissues.  Tuna is a warmer water fish, and some people and cats can't eat much of it without having problems.

That guy was right, and I also found an earlier reference, in the bible, moses had to have the people lost in the desert...for forty years, a couple of generations to fix their craziness from changing their diet so fast.  Altering diet so fast could cause mental issues, I have genes for AIP porphyria, if I were to try being a vegan or vegetarian I would get crazy.  But I do need to have some veggies, just in moderation.  and they should be cooked most times.  Now AIP porphyria is also called swedes disease and is present in that whole area, because they did not have green veggies all year, they genetically adapted and the same goes for the inuit...oh wait, lots of scandanavian country women have inuit genes.  one copy is not as much  a problem of the genset, but double copies are.

[Kenzo1]

These are not easy things to know all rickymouse , human biology is  complicated   


I been trying to look/understand the vitamin B9 , as it is related to methylation & MTHFR   

It look`s somehow important to methylation but also to regulating histamines, maybe mast cells also . Then comes all the different forms , and opinions.... been using methyl version , but there is also folinic acid which i never tryed ...

I take the methyl version of Folate and avoid the folic acid supplements that are not methyl forms.  Folinic acid was in some of the combos I tried, and it is about the same as folate.    I have the A1298C double c that is my problem, it does not increase homocysteine levels, but coupled with other methylation doubles it can cause some problems.  One of those problems is increased risk of brain cancer...my father died from brain cancer, and his kind was related most likely to DDT he sprayed on some of the crops in the sixties before it was banned.  But this gene might have something to do with it too.  I do not have any copies of the problematic 677 that are a problem with homocysteine, and even one copy of the 1298 coupled with one 677 is worse than what I have.  So having a constant small amount of methylfolate each day helps to keep things better because I have a constant supply available to give me full time coverage all day long...at least that is what I think is going on since it helps me quite a bit.  I also do better with the methyl and adeno cobalamins but the cyano version occasionally doesn't hurt, but too long and the cyanocobalamin does drag me down in energy and thinking ability.  I have not tried the hydroxo version of cobalamin....I think you need a prescription for that and that is used for some kinds of poisoning.

I studied this intensively, many hundreds of research articles and studies talking about the methylation problems.  I cannot test things on myself to find solutions to problems caused by other genetic conditions others have, just the ones I have.

I have plenty of weird genes, I think that my wife married me because she loves cats and I share some genetic traits with cats....The molybdenum coenzyme is necessary to make sulfite oxidase, and the sulfite oxidase is necessary to make taurine in the liver, and also to utilize taurine in the body.  So that means since taurine can treat epilepsy, I also need molybdenum supplements to keep the seizure risk down.  Taurine is found in raw meat, and molybdenum is high in grasses that produce grains, like rye grass...cats like cat grass, it contains molybdenum and most likely the grass contains methylfolate which they also may need.  Rice also is rich in molybdenum, but because it is high in molybdenum the rice can contain arsenic and heavy metals, because molybdenum chealates metals well, Thiomolybdates are used to detox people in medicine for some kinds of poisoning, but also be cautious, if you have more molybdenum and you eat foods with arsenic, you might possibly take in more arsenic too.  Also take copper with molybdenum supplements or a person could get a deficiency in copper after a while which might make a person frail because copper is needed to make collagen.

There are hundreds of ways to interpret things, which makes it hard to explain and people have the idea if a little helps, a lot will do even better....too much medicine can cause problems, even tobacco is a medicine, it can cause problems if a person smokes too much...had to put that in to make it so I am not creating an off topic post.

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Surprising what you can learn by actually studying your problems that you learned you had from genetic apps. I knew from young that I was intolerant to breads...

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Have you tried researching your deep genetic ancestry to determine what they ate? By "deep" I don't mean 100 years ago, or even 200 years ago, but millennia ago. You won't have names for them, but you can find out where your genetic patterns came from most strongly.

I ask because back in the 1970's, I read a book by a doctor named Jethro Kloss. "Back to Eden" I think it was called. He was a doctor, but dabbled quite a bit in herbal medicine. He had a theory that your deep ancestry determined what food you were genetically predisposed to react well to. It sort of makes sense - back in those days, if they ate disagreeable stuff, they were more likely to die early and not pass on their genes, so the genes that got passed down to you were from the people who got along well with what they ate.

Sea peoples ate fish and seafood, pastoralists ate meat and milk and developed lactose tolerance to be passed on, etc. Some societies went heavier on greens, some went heavier on fruit, some went heavier on meat, and so forth, and those tolerances got passed on genetically.

As an example, my deep ancestors drank mostly water, mead, and beer. My metabolism, as it turns out, gets along pretty well with those things. They ate barley bannock, fish, maize, and red meat, and my constitution handles those pretty well, too. They DIDN'T eat fowl like chicken, and as it turns out, chicken, turkey, etc doesn't agree with me at all.

They also ate some stuff I'll never be able to even pronounce, much less ever be able to make.

Might be something to check into.

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I read Back to eden many years ago.  It was a good book. 

I have genetics related to the Inuit people.  It is paternal DNA but because lots of Finnish women have that genetics in Xs I have some of the full blown food necessities of the inuit...but not all.  I am only one point seven percent Inuit according to My Herritage, and it appears that is all in metabolism.  Only three percent of Northern European men have the paternal genetics of the Inuit....other than the Inuit of course, most of the inuit males have the paternal version if their fathers were Inuit.  But other than having minor shoveling on the back of my teeth, and big teeth with long canines that made me make a good vampire at Halloween when I was a kid, I don't look like the Inuit, other than when I go out in the sun a lot I turn really dark, and I am a dark Finn...my skin is darker than most of them.

It takes about four generations for a person to adapt to a new food without problems from my research, incorporating a little more in each generation.  Well look at the USA and what health science is doing, telling people to eat super foods.  It is causing more health issues than anything.  But they say science says it is healthier, yeah, the people in sardenia have been eating their local fish for thousands of years..warm water fish that contain more histamines than cold water fish.  The fish in warm water have adapted and increased Histadine and histamine in their tissues.  Tuna is a warmer water fish, and some people and cats can't eat much of it without having problems.

That guy was right, and I also found an earlier reference, in the bible, moses had to have the people lost in the desert...for forty years, a couple of generations to fix their craziness from changing their diet so fast.  Altering diet so fast could cause mental issues, I have genes for AIP porphyria, if I were to try being a vegan or vegetarian I would get crazy.  But I do need to have some veggies, just in moderation.  and they should be cooked most times.  Now AIP porphyria is also called swedes disease and is present in that whole area, because they did not have green veggies all year, they genetically adapted and the same goes for the inuit...oh wait, lots of scandanavian country women have inuit genes.  one copy is not as much  a problem of the genset, but double copies are.

I read today about folate related opinions , turns out that some people warn not to take methyl folate too much, or everyday .....it has to some people like bell curve effect....meaning people feel first good when starting taking it, and can feel good next week, but then start feel bad.   It means for some people they should only take it when feel bad or like exercise more....methyl folate has side effects , again for " some people"  other may feel ok to take it everyday . This varies between different people to some degree. But i think methyl folate can cause issues with too big dose or too often taken .

I am not sure my case, but my gut just says i have issue with it....either low or high....i been now taking b komplex 1-2 time a day...and it had methyl folate. So now i am pausing it for few day at least to see ......

I will probably try folinic acid as it is more gentle....

I dont know noothing about my genes, never done test , or methyl test either.

hydroxo version of cobalamin is what i have and use, it dont need prescription .

[rickymouse]

[quote pid="28331" dateline="1764618864"]

I read today about folate related opinions , turns out that some people warn not to take methyl folate too much, or everyday .....it has to some people like bell curve effect....meaning people feel first good when starting taking it, and can feel good next week, but then start feel bad.   It means for some people they should only take it when feel bad or like exercise more....methyl folate has side effects , again for " some people"  other may feel ok to take it everyday . This varies between different people to some degree. But i think methyl folate can cause issues with too big dose or too often taken .

I am not sure my case, but my gut just says i have issue with it....either low or high....i been now taking b komplex 1-2 time a day...and it had methyl folate. So now i am pausing it for few day at least to see ......

I will probably try folinic acid as it is more gentle....

I dont know noothing about my genes, never done test , or methyl test either.

hydroxo version of cobalamin is what i have and use, it dont need prescription .
[/quote]

My daughter has a problem with methyl folate, it makes her crabby, she has no problem with folic acid though, they gave her that when she was pregnant.  She is a very nice person, but with methyl folate she looses her cool with the kids.  Actually, the kids don't clean up after themselves, they leave their dishes all over the place, wrappers from snacks are on the floor or table instead of the trash can right next to their chair.  They make a mess when making food in the kitchen and don't clean up.

So is she getting crabby or is she just yelling at them for being pigs which she would have done if she was thinking better.  The wife and I would never have let her or the other daughter make a mess like that in our house.  They would have not been allowed to cook or take any dish into the living room or bedroom if they left that kind of mess.

It's a matter of opinion I guess.

[Kenzo1]

[quote pid="28331" dateline="1764618864"]

I read today about folate related opinions , turns out that some people warn not to take methyl folate too much, or everyday .....it has to some people like bell curve effect....meaning people feel first good when starting taking it, and can feel good next week, but then start feel bad.   It means for some people they should only take it when feel bad or like exercise more....methyl folate has side effects , again for " some people"  other may feel ok to take it everyday . This varies between different people to some degree. But i think methyl folate can cause issues with too big dose or too often taken .

I am not sure my case, but my gut just says i have issue with it....either low or high....i been now taking b komplex 1-2 time a day...and it had methyl folate. So now i am pausing it for few day at least to see ......

I will probably try folinic acid as it is more gentle....

I dont know noothing about my genes, never done test , or methyl test either.

hydroxo version of cobalamin is what i have and use, it dont need prescription .

My daughter has a problem with methyl folate, it makes her crabby, she has no problem with folic acid though, they gave her that when she was pregnant.  She is a very nice person, but with methyl folate she looses her cool with the kids.  Actually, the kids don't clean up after themselves, they leave their dishes all over the place, wrappers from snacks are on the floor or table instead of the trash can right next to their chair.  They make a mess when making food in the kitchen and don't clean up.

So is she getting crabby or is she just yelling at them for being pigs which she would have done if she was thinking better.  The wife and I would never have let her or the other daughter make a mess like that in our house.  They would have not been allowed to cook or take any dish into the living room or bedroom if they left that kind of mess.

It's a matter of opinion I guess.
[/quote]


Well whaddayaknow    methyl folate makes me also feel crabby, easily irritated .


That was one sign i started noticing...now i am off from methyl folate for now , 

Kids acting wrong can be irritating and make someone pissed , even without methyl folate  also...