How much longer

[MisterSpock]

Just wondering what everyone elses guess is.

How much longer does the united states have, before it just all collapses and gets rolled over into something else, it's a tough question, not just because it's hard to guess a time but it's probably going to actually be hard to determine exactly when it happened in the immediate aftermath.

Everything is being dismantled, every facet of this country is on the line. Sure, there have been decades of this or that, political corruption, financial issues, etc.

But apparently we are at the point, I believe, where things that used to take decades are being pushed and squeezed into much smaller frames of time, in a rapid push to topple it all.

Seeing that even singing the national anthem, in the this nations capital, is somehow an issue these days just highlights the multi front attack on literally anything that can be viewed as "American".

In the last few years, it seems any minor semblance of what "is" America is ripe for attack from the very institutions that are supposed to embrace them.

I give it more than most, probably 10 or 15 years, simply because I think it will take about 6 or 8 years before people can look back and realize it happened.

[727Sky]

Between Soros, DOJ, FBI, WEF, and all the career government radicals who preform the task of their perverted masters and that is not even considering the multitude of enemy Manchurian candidates installed by China and others with the grand plan of destroying American society... Who knows...? For those of us who experienced the 60s with the protest, assassinations, bombings, etc etc many thought the very fabric of American society was being destroyed... Well here we are still wondering how it will all end..

[EndtheMadnessNow]

I recall right after 9/11, several of my senior elder managers said everything is now going to change, forever. No going back, better prepare kid & get your financial affairs in order. They took earlier retirement shortly after while the stock was still running high. Well, at the time I had no effin clue what in hell they were talking about...not until about 6-7 years later. So, yea, everyone's perception is different to wildly different.

But, like you said, everything is being destroyed, buried, erased, twisted, perverted in one form or another at an unprecedented pace and seems to be speeding up. I think in military terms this is called shock doctrine to confuse, trigger, distract, and manipulate the masses while dueling bloodlines battle for power & control.

As of 2020 anyone over the age of 45-50 is not intended to go into the Brave New World of lockdown mind-controlled cities of sheep that is coming and for those that can't handle it there will be plenty of soma for all. Probably be mandatory pill.

In recent history the puppet masters seem to operate on 10 year goals where a big event(s) occur in the first year...1971, 1981, 1991, 2001, 2011, 2020-corona kick-off plan for the decade and then along came the alchemical processing of humanity through public psychodrama. Corona was a multi-prong Op that has served many agendas as we now well know.

We are in a new Tower of Babel Phase where no matter how clear the information or explanation is many people will only see the ideology that possesses them. Even when the concept is clarified according to their terms they can only see their own reflection in the words, nothing more.

This pattern will continue causing society to repeatedly polarize into competing ideologies. Public discourse will not improve, only lessen and degrade. While this stage is difficult, it is preparing society for a greater impulse. All competing ideologies must be exhausted. It's all part of "revelation of the method", it's the idea that in revealing their methods and plans is part of a scheme to influence and control our behavior and bend it to their will. Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be the Whole of the Law.

I think post 2031 is when some will finally awaken to the horror and several years later more will realize. There of course will be the other group that never recognizes and just goes along with the herd. By then it won't matter because the empire will have already moved onto the next gradual re-shaping of minds. Best one can do is find paths to circumvent their currents of power & control and not worry too much about it. There are no green pastures, but some are much better than others and chance favors the prepared mind.

These quotes have stuck in my head since circa 2020:

“We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality – judiciously, as you will – we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
— Karl Rove, as reported by Ron Suskind, NYTimes, Oct. 17, 2004

"The illusion of freedom will continue for as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will take down the scenery, move the tables and chairs out of the way, then they will pull back the curtains and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater." - Frank Zappa

“We've arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science and technology. And this combustible mixture of ignorance and power, sooner or later, is going to blow up in our faces. Who is running the science & technology in a democracy if the people don't know anything about it?”
— Carl Sagan

"The heroes of declining nations are always the same—the athlete, the singer or the actor. The word ‘celebrity’ today is used to designate a comedian or a football player, not a statesman, a general, or a literary genius."
...
"Decadence is a moral and spiritual disease, resulting from too long a period of wealth and power, producing cynicism, decline of religion, pessimism and frivolity. The citizens of such a nation will no longer make an effort to save themselves, because they are not convinced that anything in life is worth saving."
― Lieutenant-General Sir John Glubb, "The Fate of Empires & Search For Survival" (1976) PDF

It's just a ride...



One must leap off the merry-Go-around in mind, body, spirit to break free.

[Ninurta]

About 10 more years is my best guess. Empires last, on average, 250 years, and we're getting near that mark now.

At it's end of life, the Roman Empire had it's coliseum, it's gladiators and it's "bread and circuses", it's corrupt politicians gathering ever more power to themselves at the expense of the public. We now have ball players as national heroes, actors (rather than warriors and statesmen that actually do the building and maintaining of empire) as heroes, an almost entirely corrupted political class, and a welfare state representing our very own "bread ans circuses". Just as Rome had it's invasive barbarians that provided just enough extra OOMPH! to bring the state down, it's Vandals, Visigoths, and Celts invading from the north to assist in destroying the state from within, we now have our own "barbarians" invading across our borders, primarily from the south this time, but with the same purpose and result.

There is no longer any one in power who is trying to maintain the empire - they are actively courting it's destruction in the name of personal enrichment for themselves, the rest of us be damned. Just as happened to Rome.

We are on the downhill run of this empire, and have been for some time now. We're getting near the finish line.

Just as Sky observed above, some of us have seen all or most of the current situation before, in the 1960's, right down to people re-using the same ideas, the same catch-phrases and wording, and replaying some of the same events from that era. Far from being an indicator that "this has all happened before and we survived it", it's more a demonstration that this has been going on a long time with no rest periods, and the empire is nearing the exhaustion point now.

Rome itself is still there, but it's empire is gone, it's character changed from what it once was. So too I think a core of the Federal American Empire may survive, in a much reduced and changed state, but the rest of the empire that was will experience drastic changes, including the inevitable change of hands into the hands of new owners.

There are people out there, people that you and I don't know - at least I don't - who are orchestrating this destruction from behind the curtain with the objective of enriching themselves at the expense of the rest. They are using the time-honored tradition of "deconstructing" the society and individuals who used to be, in an effort to "reconstruct" them, rebuild them, in the image those people want them to exist in. They are actively tearing down the edifice in an attempt to raise an entirely new one, more to their liking, on the ashes of what was, One must utterly destroy what was in order to rebuild anew on that same ground and in their own concept... and that new building always reflects a changed power structure to benefit only the builders, never the worker bees.

I'd say about 10 more years is all we'll have to finish experiencing the death throes of this empire. The only questions left at this point are what comes next, and how prepared will we be as individuals to exist within, or outside, of it?

NOW is the time to plan that out for you and your posterity... if it's not already too late, that is.

.

[loam]

Whenever it happens, it will happen quickly. I'm betting on a balkanization of sorts.

Next 5 years will be on steroids.

[GeauxHomeLittleD]

I will agree with the 10-15 years time table though maybe sooner as time seems to be speeding up like water circling the drain. Honestly I'm not sure if I would rather be alive to witness it all or to be gone from this world before the last drops fall. I fear tremendously for our grandchildren and it saddens me to imagine what their futures hold.

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

I will agree with the 10-15 years time table though maybe sooner as time seems to be speeding up like water circling the drain. Honestly I'm not sure if I would rather be alive to witness it all or to be gone from this world before the last drops fall. I fear tremendously for our grandchildren and it saddens me to imagine what their futures hold.

I pray for the future generations. I know I can never prepare them for what is to come, so I try very hard to provide them with a good foundation on how to deal with living comfortably and happily with nothing.

I was so blessed as a child to have grown up poor in the country. We lived with the woods behind us, walking distance from the river, and with a tad longer walk to the ocean.

We grew up knowing that if you "needed" something, it would be provided, and if you"wanted" something, you had better work out a plan to get it. Because no one was going to hand it to you.

You learned to work with purpose. How to barter. How to care for animals on the homestead. How to plant. How to fish, and how to harvest. How to store foods in the spring house, and in the smoke house. How to can, and how to dehydrate food. 

My Dad took me hunting for the first time when I was eight years old. I didn't shoot anything and ended up making my Dad bring home a rabbit. Alive. It died months later after he ate my Mother's favorite indoor plant. 

Just joking. Mom didn't kill it but she sure wanted to.

Anyway. That is the best we can do for them. Build strong character in them, and teach them how to survive.

More important, teach them what is worth living for, and what I is worth dying for.

[Ninurta]

I will agree with the 10-15 years time table though maybe sooner as time seems to be speeding up like water circling the drain. Honestly I'm not sure if I would rather be alive to witness it all or to be gone from this world before the last drops fall. I fear tremendously for our grandchildren and it saddens me to imagine what their futures hold.

The destruction of an empire and rebuilding on the ashes anew can be a double edged sword. On the one hand, if we allow "them" to guide the reconstruction, then their rules will prevail. On the other hand, if "we" - the people already on the ground in any particular patch - deny that reconstruction and set our own foundations in place first, then WE will set the rules.

Every ending is a new beginning, but that benefits only those who recognize that fact and are willing - and bold enough - to get their hands dirty enough to bring their own vision to fruition.

Whenever a door opens, it allows passage in both directions. What matters is just WHO gets into that doorway first and blocks passage from the other direction.

SO - "they" win only if "we" allow them to do so. This is OUR ground, not theirs, and it will remain that way until such time as we roll over and let them take it. The futures of our grandchildren are in our own hands at this juncture, and NO ONE else's hands. What "they" want matters nary a whit if "we" do not allow it.

That's the only reason this web site even exists. Some folks decided they were not going to let someone else at another site set THEIR rules, and had enough fortitude and will power to make it happen, to make their vision become a reality.

Likewise, that's also the only reason The United States ever came to be in the first place, replacing "British Colonial America". Enough people with enough fortitude and enough vision set their foot down and said "NO!". We can do it again... if we will.


.

[EndtheMadnessNow]

I was looking back in time and stumbled across a few bits of history.



October 4, 1948 issue of LIFE magazine



WTF Happened in 1971?

Yes, something did happen - I think it's called "automation" and "fiat money".

Inequality - "X" Marks the Spot - Dig here
Posted: July 31, 2015
Stan Sorscher Labor Representative, Society for Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace

In 2002, I heard an economist characterizing this figure as containing a valuable economic insight. He wasn't sure what the insight was. I have my own answer.



The economist talked of the figure as a sort of treasure map, which would lead us to the insight. "X" marks the spot. Dig here.

This figure tells three stories. First, we see two distinct historic periods since World War II. In the first period, workers shared the gains from productivity. In the later period, a generation of workers gained little, even as productivity continued to rise.

The second message is the very abrupt transition from the post-war historic period to the current one. Something happened in the mid-70's to de-couple wages from productivity gains.

The third message is that workers' wages - accounting for inflation and all the lower prices from cheap imported goods - would be double what they are now, if workers still took their share of gains in productivity.

A second version of the figure is equally provocative.



This graphic shows the same distinct historic periods, and the same sharp break around 1975. Each colored line represents the growth in family income, relative to 1975, for different income percentiles. Pre-1975, families at all levels of income benefited proportionately. Post-1975, The top 5% did well, and we know the top 1% did very well. Gains from productivity were redistributed upward to the top income percentiles.

This de-coupling of wages from productivity has drawn a trillion dollars out of the labor share of GDP.
Economics does not explain what happened in the mid-70s.

It was not the oil shock. Not interest rates. Not the Fed, or monetary policy. Not robots, or the decline of the Soviet Union, or globalization, or the internet.

The sharp break in the mid-70's marks a shift in our country's values. Our moral, social, political and economic values changed in the mid-70's.

Let's go back before World War II to the Great Depression. Speculative unregulated policies ruined the economy. Capitalism was discredited. Powerful and wealthy elites feared the legitimate threat of Communism. The public demanded that government solve our problems.

The Depression and World War II defined that generation's collective identity. Our national heroes were the millions of workers, soldiers, families and communities who sacrificed. We owed a national debt to those who had saved Democracy and restored prosperity. The New Deal policies reflected that national purpose, honoring a social safety net, increasing bargaining power for workers and bringing public interest into balance with corporate power.

In that period, the prevailing social contract said, "We all do better when we all do better." My prosperity depends on your well-being. In that period of history, you were my co-worker, neighbor or customer. Opportunity and fairness drove the upward spiral (with some glaring exceptions). Work had dignity. Workers earned a share of the wealth they created. We built Detroit (for instance) by hard work and productivity.

Our popular media father-figures were Walter Cronkite, Chet Huntley, David Brinkley, and others, liberal and conservative, who were devoted to an America of opportunity and fair play.

The sudden change in the mid-70's was not economic. First it was moral, then social, then political, ..... then economic.

In the mid-70's, we traded in our post-World War II social contract for a new one, where "greed is good." In the new moral narrative I can succeed at your expense. I will take a bigger piece of a smaller pie. Our new heroes are billionaires, hedge fund managers, and CEO's.

In this narrative, they deserve more wealth so they can create more jobs, even as they lay off workers, close factories and invest new capital in low-wage countries. Their values and their interests come first in education, retirement security, and certainly in labor law.

We express these same distorted moral, social and political priorities in our trade policies. As bad as these priorities are for our domestic policies, they are worse if they define the way we manage globalization.

The key to the treasure buried in Figure 1 is power relationships. To understand what happened, ask, "Who has the power to take 93% of all new wealth and how did they get that power? The new moral and social values give legitimacy to policies that favor those at the top of our economy.

We give more bargaining power and influence to the wealthy, who already have plenty of both, while reducing bargaining power for workers. In this new narrative, workers and unions destroyed Detroit (for instance) by not lowering our living standards fast enough.

In the new moral view, anyone making "poor choices" is responsible for his or her own ruin. The unfortunate are seen as unworthy moochers and parasites. We disparage teachers, government workers, the long-term unemployed, and immigrants.

In this era, popular media figures are spiteful and divisive.

Our policies have made all workers feel contingent, at risk, and powerless. Millions of part-time workers must please their employer to get hours. Millions more in the gig economy work without benefits and have no job security at all. Recent college graduates carry so much debt that they cannot invest, take risk on a new career, or rock the boat. Millions of undocumented workers are completely powerless in the labor market, and subject to wage theft. They have negative power in the labor market!

We are creating a new American aristocracy, with less opportunity - less social mobility and weaker social cohesion than any other advanced country. We are falling behind in many measures of well-being.

The dysfunctions of our post-1970 moral, social, political and economic system make it incapable of dealing with climate change or inequality, arguably the two greatest challenges of our time. We are failing our children and the next generations.

X marks the spot. In this case, "X" is our choice of national values. We abandoned traditional American values that built a great and prosperous nation. Our power relationships are sour.

We can start rebuilding our social cohesion when we say all work has dignity. Workers earn a share of the wealth we create. We all do better, when we all do better. My prosperity depends on a prosperous community with opportunity and fairness.

Dig there.

Inequality - "X" Marks the Spot - Dig here