The American Redoubt: America’s Empty Quarter

[Infolurker]

A new, very good article about the American Redoubt.... too bad I can't get a job (with what I do) there.....

I need to win the mega millions



https://survivalblog.com/2023/07/07/amer...y-quarter/

Otherwise, the American Redoubt is almost boringly and blandly “Vanilla”. If you are into Thai food or East Indian food, then you won’t be a good match for relocating to the American Redoubt.

As I’ve mentioned before in SurvivalBlog, the politics of most of the counties in the American Redoubt are solidly conservative. The majority of the recent newcomers are also conservative. And it is the conservative ones that tend to have large families. So, all-in-all, we are witnessing a demographic win. – JWR

A major part of my consulting work revolves around relocation and retreat property selection, for my clients. When I have conversations with clients from the eastern United States, they often have difficulty grasping just how [i]empty[/i] The American Redoubt is. Their view of “The West” is often skewed by the teeming masses of California that they see on television.


I’d like to quantify, describe, and anecdotally illustrate the American Redoubt in this brief article.  As our friend Joerg Sprave would say: “Let me tell you about its [i]features[/i].”

VAST AND LIGHTLY-POPULATED

First, let’s discuss basic geography. The American Redoubt consists of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and the eastern halves of both Oregon and Washington. This is a vast and lightly-populated region. The region is dominated by the northern Rocky Mountains. The terrain varies from wide open prairies to steep mountainous canyons.

The driving distances in the Redoubt can be daunting. For example, it takes nearly 14 hours to drive across the width of Montana. Some Redoubters have work commute distances of more than 60 miles, twice a day, five days a week. A lot of places are[i] truly[/i] remote. If you lived in Winnett, Montana, the nearest Walmart would be 85 miles away, in Billings. Thankfully, the speed limits on the Interstate freeways are as high as 80 miles per hour.  For folks in Dubois, Wyoming, it is 193 miles (2 hours and 50 minutes, in good weather) to the nearest good-sized city, for shopping. That is Casper  — the second largest city in the state, and Casper has a population of just under 60,000. If you lived in Augusta, Montana, driving to Kalispell, Montana for shopping would take you 3 hours and 5 minutes, in good weather. This is because Augusta sits on the east side of the roadless 1.5 million-acre Bob Marshall Wilderness area. The straight-line distance from Augusta to Kalispell is only 100 miles, but the[i] road[/i] distance between them is 198 miles.


Idaho has the most designated wilderness land of any of the “Lower 48” continental United States (CONUS.)  The largest of these is the Frank Church–River of No Return Wilderness Area: 2,366,827 acres. (That Wilderness is bigger than Delaware.) Transiting the Frank Church–River of No Return Wilderness Area from the little off-grid hamlet of Shoup, Idaho, west to Riggins, Idaho, is normally done only in [i]one[/i] direction, downstream, by whitewater raft. (Hence the name “River of No Return.”) But driving from Shoup to Riggins takes 6 hours and 35 minutes via the shortest route, even though the straight-line distance is only 98 miles. Driving around that big roadless wilderness does take a while!

[b]Population and Population Densities:[/b]

Idaho: 1,634,000 (22 people per square mile)
Montana: 1,024,000 (7.5 people per square mile)
Wyoming: 584,000 (6 people per square mile)
Eastern Oregon:  About 300,000 (6.5 people per square mile).
[b]Note:[/b] Nearly half of the population of Eastern Oregon lives within a 50-mile radius of the city of Bend.
Eastern Washington: About 475,000 (11 people per square mile).
[b]Note: [/b] More than half of the population of Eastern Washington resides in Spokane or in the Tri-Cities.  This leaves the rest of eastern Washington very lightly populated. For example, Ferry County has just 7,178 people. (3.5 people per square mile)
[b]To put those figures in perspective:[/b]

• The[i] average[/i] population density for the 48 contiguous states (CONUS) is 111 people per square mile.
  
• The population density of Pennsylvania and Ohio are both around 285 people per square mile.
  
• The population density of Tennessee is 159 people per square mile.
  
• The population density of Texas is 103 people per square mile.
  

And,

• The entire population of Wyoming is less than the population of metropolitan Atlanta, Georgia.
  
• You could fit 10 and a half Vermonts in the landmass of Wyoming.
  
• You could fit nearly 30 Virginias in the landmass of Montana.
  
• Montana’s landmass is 18 times the size of Illinois. But Illinois has 12.5 times as many residents as Montana.
  
• Owyhee County, Idaho — Idaho’s second-largest county — has a population density of 1.48 people per square mile and measures 7,665 square miles. That [i]county[/i] is four times the size of the state of Delaware, and a little bigger than New Jersey. (And notably, New Jersey’s population density is 1,215 people per square mile.)
  

POWER GENERATION
The American Redoubt region is blessed with [i]lots[/i] of energy sources: hydroelectric, wind, coal, oil, and natural gas. There is also some geothermal potential, but that is largely untapped. Unlike the eastern states that are mostly net energy [i]importers[/i], the American Redoubt is a net energy [i]exporter[/i].

[Snarl]

Back in the '80s, me and some Army buddies pitched in and bought some land in NW Wyoming to hunt on. As memory serves, the total land area exceeded 3,000 acres (don't quote me). Taxes were negligible and we quietly allowed people to 'trespass' there for enough to pay for everything. Elk hunters are always willing to shell out big bucks for someone to drive them around a little.

That was the first place I ever built something resembling a shelter with my own two hands. Never heard a damned thing about it being there from an 'agency' either. I think about it from time-to-time, but getting out there involves too much for the ROI. I really balk at the thought of having to walk out to an outhouse to take a dump too.

---

Back in the '80s, me and some Army buddies pitched in and bought some land in NW Wyoming to hunt on. As memory serves, the total land area exceeded 3,000 acres (don't quote me). Taxes were negligible and we quietly allowed people to 'trespass' there for enough to pay for everything. Elk hunters are always willing to shell out big bucks for someone to drive them around a little.

That was the first place I ever built something resembling a shelter with my own two hands. Never heard a damned thing about it being there from an 'agency' either. I think about it from time-to-time, but getting out there involves too much for the ROI. I really balk at the thought of having to walk out to an outhouse to take a dump too.

Might be worth adding that back then Wyoming and Texas had some good programs to put land into the hands of active duty military.

[F2d5thCav]

"Empty Quarter".

I know where that refers to; probably only map aficionados know that term, other than the people from that area.

Cheers

[Infolurker]

"Empty Quarter".

I know where that refers to; probably only map aficionados know that term, other than the people from that area.

Cheers

A good list of "reasons"

Strategic Relocation — Why, Where, And How

Deeper concerns


If your concerns run deeper, to the financial instability, civil unrest, and authoritarianism that seem imminent, then your process is more complicated. In a financial crisis or breakdown in the food supply chain, no city will be safe, and smaller towns and rural areas will only thrive if they have certain fairly specific characteristics. Some things the best place for riding out the storm would have:

[b]Distance from major cities. [/b]The typical major city has, at best, a few weeks of food on hand. What happens when new supplies stop coming? Chaos, obviously, as cars full of hungry, desperate people swarm the surrounding countryside in search of their next meal. So your ideal future home would be more than a full tank of gas away from the nearest big city.

[b]Access to food and water. [/b]Many western states depend on snowmelt running through a handful of rivers to fill a few big reservoirs. One of the first things to go in a crisis will be the agreements that allocate this water, leaving some places high and dry. Food, meanwhile, is produced in some places and exported to others. So it’s better to be in a place with plenty of water and lots of farms. One published list of states with the most water includes Alaska, Michigan, Florida, Wisconsin, Louisiana, California, New York, Minnesota, and North Carolina.

[b]Moderate climate. [/b]Brutal winters and extended summer droughts make everything harder. So the ideal location would have seasons in which life doesn’t stop because of snow, rain, or heat.

[b]Low population density. [/b]As a general rule, the more crowded a place, the crazier it can get in a crisis. So a low-population state or region is much safer than a big city or sprawling megalopolis. Low-population states include Alaska, Wyoming, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, New Mexico, Idaho, Nebraska, Nevada, and Kansas.

[b]Freedom-oriented culture.[/b] States in which rural voters have influence tend to be less susceptible to authoritarianism. Note how different states behaved during the recent pandemic. So — a very general rule of thumb — avoid places that seem likely to panic in a crisis and seek out places where the interests of landholders, farmers, and small towns dictate policy.

[b]Low land prices. [/b]Today’s real estate market is an epic bubble, which makes relocating far more expensive than it used to be. A lot of obvious destinations — because they’re also obvious to the people fleeing San Francisco and New York — have already been discovered and are now prohibitively expensive. So it might be wise to look off the beaten track for places that meet most criteria but not all. People with the skills to take on a fixer-upper have a big advantage in this kind of real estate market.

[b]Rare natural disasters. [/b]Just about every state has something to worry about on this front, from earthquakes to hurricanes to fires. A propensity for one or more of these things isn’t a deal breaker but you don’t want to flee societal breakdown only to be wiped out by a recurring natural event. So give preference to places that have relatively few natural disasters. And if, for instance, you move to Florida for its politics despite it being in hurricane alley, skew your prepping toward that particular kind of risk.

[b]Low taxes. [/b]High-tax states tend to be badly-run states. Very few of them appear on the many “best of” lists in this space.

[b]Favorable gun laws. [/b]There’s a saying, “If you can’t defend your rights, you have no rights.” This becomes more true as societal stress increases, so a state that values its gun owners gains lots of points in this search.
The overall best states

There is no one perfect place for strategic relocation. But some states that appear on various “best of” lists are Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Missouri, Montana, North Carolina, North and South Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming.

[Michigan Swamp Buck]

I know of the redoubt from the survival blog as well. My concern is the Yellowstone Caldera, but if the SHTF and Patriots converge there, I'll be heading that way. I don't have much hope for Michigan unless we can take it back from the socialist Democrats and reinvigorate the militias. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening but hope I'm wrong.

[Ninurta]

This sounds like something James Wesley Rawles would say. I never put that stupid comma in his name that he does, because he's never given me adequate reason to do so. It's the same reason I never call that guy in town - you know the one... hairy legs, heavy 5-o'clock shadow, way too much smeared makeup, clip on earrings, and a pretty floral dress - "she" when he is clearly a "he". He's never given me adequate reason to feed his fantasy and call him "she".

Mr. Rawles writes a good post-apocalyptic novel ("TEOTWAWKI"), but when it comes to actual survival advice, I personally find some of his logic questionable. Be that as it may, he's welcome to prep-up as he sees fit, and his followers are welcome to do the same. They can bet their lives on his advice, because it's their lives they are betting, but I'll find my own way after the apocalypse, thanks. He lost me when he started advocating hoarding "pre-1964 silver coins". I can't eat gold or silver, and both have a melting point too high to make bullets out of so that I CAN get something to eat, so I'm unlikely to stockpile either of those.

With this advice, there is a lot to be said for low-population, isolated areas, but there is a lot to be said against them as well. These particular areas seem to me to be smack dab in the middle of a huge volcanic bulls-eye, so that right there, by itself, is enough to turn me off to them. I have no desire to survive whatever humanity can throw at me just to be taken out by Mother Nature.

There is a reason that low population areas have low populations - they are either too rough and rugged to survive in, or else the land quality is too poor to eat off of. The more entertaining ones have things there that just want to eat YOU, because there isn't anything else around to eat.

Mr Rawles - if this comes from him - is very welcome to stack his eggs in that basket if he wants. That just leaves more space here for me!

.

[727Sky]

Winters, Yellowstone, and lack of year around farming would count me out of that location. We get three crops a year here however one crop needs watering as it is the dry season. I do wonder sometimes how I would fare without electricity as a fan or air conditioning is a pretty big deal for about 8 months a year. Good news is a solar powered fan with a battery would work very well.

It is in the 90s (32 to 34C) by 0900am and just gets hotter as the day progresses (humidity can also be very high during the rainy season)... I get off the golf course normally by 9 unless it is a tournament then I just suffer !

[NightskyeB4Dawn]

I know of the redoubt from the survival blog as well. My concern is the Yellowstone Caldera, but if the SHTF and Patriots converge there, I'll be heading that way. I don't have much hope for Michigan unless we can take it back from the socialist Democrats and reinvigorate the militias. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening but hope I'm wrong.

You and me both. My brother has been making noises about moving out into that area. I told him I have three reasons why I am not interested.

1. The Yellowstone Caldera
2. We have a huge family and I love them all. Every one of them. I don't think the majority of the people moving to the redoubt, would welcome some of them, and maybe harm a few. At least where I am I am known. While there would be some that may not be too happy to see them, I feel comfortable that they would not hurt them.
3. I am too darn old to leave my old homestead, that I know well, and where I already know who I can trust and who I can't.

[Infolurker]

I know of the redoubt from the survival blog as well. My concern is the Yellowstone Caldera, but if the SHTF and Patriots converge there, I'll be heading that way. I don't have much hope for Michigan unless we can take it back from the socialist Democrats and reinvigorate the militias. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening but hope I'm wrong.

You and me both. My brother has been making noises about moving out into that area. I told him I have three reasons why I am not interested.

1. The Yellowstone Caldera
2. We have a huge family and I love them all. Every one of them. I don't think the majority of the people moving to the redoubt, would welcome some of them, and maybe harm a few. At least where I am I am known. While there would be some that may not be too happy to see them, I feel comfortable that they would not hurt them.
3. I am too darn old to leave my old homestead, that I know well, and where I already know who I can trust and who I can't.

Yeah, that yellowstone issue, I get it.

I prefer the Appalachian Mountains myself. Maybe the Ozarks but the last time Yellowstone blew it had covered crap all the way though St. Louis.

[Ninurta]

Yeah, that yellowstone issue, I get it.

I prefer the Appalachian Mountains myself. Maybe the Ozarks but the last time Yellowstone blew it had covered crap all the way though St. Louis.

That's why I moved back to the Appalachians.

In 2014, we were in Kansas City, MO. We were in the ghetto there, on Troost Ave near the corner of 31st st, and let me tell you, that place got hoppin' every now and then! Even Black folks I worked with were amazed I could survive there without trouble.

The economy had been shot to hell, and I was working two part-time jobs to make up for the one full time job that wasn't to be had at that time. For several years, I'd been wanting to move back home to my mountains, and Grace decided that was the time to do it.

So I spent my birthday in 2014 driving 19 hours non-stop to get us back here with what stuff we could pile into a pickup truck.

When we got back, I was at least among folks I knew, folks who knew me, and a culture I could comprehend, Plants, animals, and wooded mountains that I knew, I knew how to hunt and gather, and knew well enough that I could hide out from airborne peepers if need be, I can even hide from FLIR choppers, infrared peepers, and airborne radars here. If you don't believe it, ask yourself how Eric Rudolph managed to stay on the run for 5 years in the Appalachians in NC, hiding out from all of the above and at times about 900 FBI agents beating the brush for him.

We have the occasional lightweight earthquake here, rarely ever above about a 3 or 3.5, and a flood or two nearly every spring, but we've managed to survive all of them for well over 200 years, and have learned how to work with this landscape.

A country boy can survive, but it's a lot easier when he's on familiar ground.

.