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+--- Thread: DNA Testing Basics (/showthread.php?tid=706)
DNA Testing Basics - Ninurta - 05-31-2023
As commercial DNA testing has gone mainstream, more and more people are taking advantage of it for a variety of reasons, most clustering around ancestry and family tree building, and health related concerns.
Right off the bat, I want to address the elephant in the room. This being a conspiracy site in the main, a large number of readers will likely have healthy concerns relating to privacy issues with just handing their DNA over to unknowns. I understand that, I really do, but I personally do not partake in that particular fear. It is pretty well known that currently everyone hands out large gobs of DNA in their trash. Anyone with nefarious designs can already get it from a dumpster if they really, REALLY want your DNA, and if they don't, they're not going to sift through millions of tests at a DNA company. So, to me, that point is moot. Your mileage may, and probably does, vary.
Here is an overview of the 5 top testing companies, comparing them against one another:
I've had my own DNA tested at two of those companies, and compared the results. The video does a good job of sifting them out and delivering recommendations for what you may be looking for, but it neglects to mention a few things.
Your results WILL vary between the various companies. This is because they each test for different SNPs (which i think of as the base pairs), as well as using different, proprietary algorithms to analyse your DNA against their database. To make matters more complicated, each company has it's own database to compare your results against. Taken all together, those factors produce differing end results, and it's my belief that the different comparison databases they use are probably the major factor in the analysis results being different. No company can find what they have no basis to look for in their database, and some times they will find things that are not really there, because what they have to compare against is what they will find - and that does not always line up with objective reality. The results can be skewed because the effort to find matches is hampered by the limitations of the database, so they will occasionally find "matches" that are only matches because it is closest to a particular dataset, not because it is close enough to actually BE a match. it's a case of "close, but no cigar" being reported as "close enough for gummint work".
Taking multiple tests can give you a finer-grained DNA file. This is because, as previously mentioned, each company tests for different SNPs, the ones most important to that company. Because they each test different SNPs, two or more files can be combined to create a new file, one that contains ALL of the SNPs tested, while rejecting duplicate SNPs. The two companies I teste with test for about 750,000 SNPs each, but when I combined the files, it resulted in a file with about 1.2 million unique SNPs, and the file size increased from about 17 megabytes to around 32 megabytes. This gave me a much larger and much finer-grained file to use in comparison testing, which is nearly twice as likely to find valid matches.
That brings me to another important consideration in selecting a DNA testing service. Some will allow you to download the "raw" file, and others will not. I won't deal with companies that will not allow me to download my own raw data. That's MY data, so by rights I should have access to it. If they can't give me that, they don't need my money.
Other uses for the raw DNA files include reconstructing DNA from deceased folks who never got tested. I started reconstructing my dad's DNA, who died in 1998 before testing was widespread. To do that, you "phase" DNA from multiple files to separate out the maternal from the paternal DNA, and then start combining just the paternal (or maternal) DNA from them into a file of it's own. My efforts got stopped cold at around a 75% reconstruction. I Have 3 sisters and a (paternal) half brother, so theoretically I should be able to get near 97% complete, but I could only get one of my sisters to be tested. the other two are, like most folks here, leery of getting their DNA tested. I could not "phase" my half-brother's DNA properly, because I do not have his mom's DNA to sift the paternal DNA out with.
The way it works is that every new batch of DNA you add to the file gives you half of the outstanding DNA. You start with your own, which gives you half of the parent's DnA, then each one you add increases that amount by half of the outstanding DNA, because each child gets a different half of the parental DNA. So I started with my own DNA (50% of dad's genome), and then factored in my sisters DNA whcih gave me half of the outstanding 50%, or 25% of the total. Adding in a second sister would give me an additional 12.5% (half of the missing 25%), and adding a third would give me a further 6.25% (half of the missing 12.5%), and the brother would only add 3.125 % (half of the missing 5,25%) to that. So theoretically I should be able to recover 50%+25%+12.5%+6.25%+3.125% = 96.875% of dad's genome, but that will never be unless I can convince some of my other siblings that no one in the government (US or Chinese) is actively hunting them.
Once you have your own raw file(s), there are programs you can use to analyze or combine them at home, on your own computer. Alternatively, there are sites you can upload the file, or a combined file, to that will do analysis for you. If, however, your Uncle Alfred committed a series of serial murders back in the 80's, and if you would prefer Uncle Alfred not get caught and brought to justice over those murders, then you would want to be selective of which sites you upload your data to - some of them are used by law enforcement to solve cold cases or to identify previously unidentified human remains, Jane and John Doe" bodies. Your DNA on those sites could potentially give law enforcement leads to look into for your relatives that may have been killers or killees.
One of my favorites among those third-party sites is " My True Ancestry". I've uploaded my combined raw files to it, and found some astonishing connections - which may, or may not, be factual - among the detritus of that site. I'm an apparent match to "Cheddar man", which a British Museum docent assured me was vanishingly unlikely on YouTube. Her stance was that the Mesolithic hunter-gatherers of Britain were entirely wiped out, so of course if they didn't leave an DNA in their progeny, then there was no way I could have inherited it. I personally think that's bunk, and that around 10% of the British genome comes from Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, but what do I know? I'm not British!
It has also linked me to Merovingian burials (which supports a deep family tree making the same claim that I ran across), 10 or so of the 50 Vikings executed at Dorset. 7 or so of the vikings massacred at Cambridge on St. Brice's Day, 1002, about 3 of the vikings buried at Brattahlid in Greenland around 1000 AD from whence sprang Leif Erikson and others of the intrepid viking discoverers of North America, and several of the Vikings/Britons mixes who first settled Iceland.
And that's not even getting into Bronze Age and Iron Age pre-Roman Briton burials - Amesbury, Dibble's farm, ancient Orcadians and Bronze Age dwellers in Scotland,.. Bronze Age dwellers on Rathlin Island off the northern Irish coast, etc.
Of Iron Age British results, I find a connection with 6 of the 7 presumed "gladiators" unearthed at York from around 250 AD when York was still Roman Eboricum. Another interesting reult was a connection to two Iron Age Britons from Kent, of the Cantii tribe. One of those was from 300 BC, but the more interesting - to me - one was from 50 BC, just a scant 5 or 6 years after Caesar's attempted landing and aborted invasion at Pegwell Bay on the Kentish coast, just a scant 10 miles or so from the burial site. I'll always wonder if one of my relatives was among those that faced down the mighty Caesar after his conquest of Gaul, when he tried to take another bite that was more than he could chew.
I don't know if any of those results are "real" or not - although some of them are supported by paperwork, while others are not - but it's fun to me to have a basis for speculations.
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RE: DNA Testing Basics - Freija - 06-01-2023
I'm with your sisters. No way would I freely hand out this information to be in some big database that I'm sure law enforcement and shady government types can access, not that I have anything to hide nor would I want to find out I have some dreaded genetic condition or something like that.
Call me paranoid, I don't care. Heck, I have never even ever been fingerprinted.
What I would like to know though is if you found out your grandma and grandpa were first cousins? That would explain a lot!
(just joshin' with you, bud!)
RE: DNA Testing Basics - xuenchen - 06-01-2023
Here They Come . . . . . (look quickly side to side)..
They're H-E-R-E
Quote:23andMe chooses to use all practical legal and administrative resources to resist requests from law enforcement, and we do not share customer data with any public databases, or with entities that may increase the risk of law enforcement access. In certain circumstances, however, 23andMe may be required by law to comply with a valid court order, subpoena, or search warrant for genetic or personal information.**
23andMe requires valid legal process in order to consider producing information about our users. 23andMe will only review inquiries as defined in 18 USC § 2703©(2) related to a valid trial, grand jury or administrative subpoena, warrant, or order. Administrative subpoenas must be served on 23andMe by personal service just like subpoenas in a court setting. 23andMe will consider releasing additional account information or transactional information pertaining to an account only in response to a court order issued pursuant to 18 USC § 2703(d). In addition, 23andMe will only consider inquiries from a government agency with proper jurisdiction.
23andMe Guide for Law Enforcement
**
Quote:Two decades-old cold case murders in California have been solved through the novel investigative tool of genetic genealogy, authorities announced.**
The first victim was 23-year-old Shannon Rose Lloyd, who was was sexually assaulted and strangled to death in her Garden Grove bedroom in May 1987, Garden Grove Deputy Police Chief Amir El Farra said.
2 cold case murders from 1980s solved with genetic genealogy: Police
**
GOOGLE: 23andme catching criminals
![[Image: eves-xfiles2.gif]](https://i.ibb.co/D7HYHrK/eves-xfiles2.gif)
RE: DNA Testing Basics - Ninurta - 06-01-2023
(06-01-2023, 12:05 AM)Freija Wrote: I'm with your sisters. No way would I freely hand out this information to be in some big database that I'm sure law enforcement and shady government types can access, not that I have anything to hide nor would I want to find out I have some dreaded genetic condition or something like that.
Call me paranoid, I don't care. Heck, I have never even ever been fingerprinted.
What I would like to know though is if you found out your grandma and grandpa were first cousins? That would explain a lot!
(just joshin' with you, bud!)
That's fine. Different folks are scared of different things. For me it's spiders, for other folks it's finding relatives, I reckon. I've never understood the fear of governments getting your DNA - what are they gonna do? Clone an army of you? But in any event, they'll get it if they want it, no donations on your part required. There's recently been a ruckus about the discovery that people's DNA can be retrieved from the air or water around them. We shed DNA with every step we take. If they just follow you around long enough to retrieve your soft drink can or cup from a public trash can, they've got a gold mine of your DNA right there.
It might be that the fingerprinting thing primed and desenstized me. I was fingerprinted every single year for years, at the same time I went through yearly firearms retraining and license renewals for work, so it was no biggie to me.
The first cousins grandparent thing - there is actually a test you can run for that called "runs of homozygosity". I ran it on myself, and didn't find any close affinities, despite the fact that I've been told my family tree looks more like a telephone pole than a tree!
One thing that worries a lot of folks is the uncertainty of unexpected discoveries, like finding out their dad wasn't their dad, or that they have unknown siblings or unknown kids of their own. I reckon that's a real fear for some folks. Shortly after I had mine tested, I was contacted by some gal in Germany who claimed she was related to me like a daughter, and couldn't understand how... but neither could I. Unfortunately, her data and account was deleted from the service's site, and I've never been able to find her again.
Shit happens, and some time you just can't explain it!
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RE: DNA Testing Basics - Ninurta - 06-01-2023
(06-01-2023, 12:33 AM)xuenchen Wrote: Here They Come . . . . . (look quickly side to side)..
They're H-E-R-E
...
GOOGLE: 23andme catching criminals
Yup, that's a concern for some, but those folks probably ought to be looking over their shoulders on a regular basis anyhow.
There is a third-party site that most law enforcement uses to solve cold cases, rather than going to the trouble of subpoenaing data from individual testing sites. I think it's Genomelink. They register as law enforcement and then upload the cold case DNA files for comparison against the other DNA files in the database there, no subpoena required. They do that to take advantage of the fact that the site collects data from a multitude of other testing sites, rather than producing it's own. it's like a one-stop shopping center.
Subpoenas don't usually enter the picture until they've narrowed the suspect list down to a relative of the tested person, and then get a subpoena to compel a DNA sample from the suspect him or her self. Killers and such are generally savvy enough not to have their own DNA tested, but they can't keep relatives from getting tested - they usually don't even know the relative WAS tested, or that it can be used to find them even though it's not their own DNA.
That's how they caught that serial killer in Oregon i think, 20 or 30 years after the crimes. It's also how they caught that guy that killed the college students in Idaho recently.
Most of the time, they don't match to the DNA of the actual killers, instead matching to the DNA of some unsuspecting family member that uploaded their own DNA for analysis, and the law enforcement matches find relatives of the subject which gives them a jumping off point to renew the investigation.
They've also used it to identify John and Jane Does, unidentified bodies found in shallow graves and whatnot. Whether the killer is caught in those cases or not, it does provide closure for the victim's families, such that they know what became of their loved one and can put the mystery and uncertainty to rest with their remains.
We had a case here about a year ago where some human remains were found in the woods about 10 or 11 miles northeast of here, and that sort of DNA matching was used to identify the body as that of a guy who had vanished about a year prior to the discovery.
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RE: DNA Testing Basics - quintessentone - 06-01-2023
I chose CRI Genetics for my family's DNA testing, mainly because of the expertise of the scientists running the company and they give reports on ancestry, allergies, extensive other health reports, etc.
Quote:CRI Genetics (Cellular Research Institute, Genetics Department) is led by Alexei Fedorov Ph.D., a molecular geneticist with over 35 years of experience studying DNA. A former apprentice to Nobel Prize winning scientist Walter Gilbert, Alexei has created a proprietary DNA analysis algorithm using the latest breakthroughs in genetic science. His lifetime goal has been to advance mankind’s understanding of the human genome into new frontiers.
and this ...
Quote:CRI Genetics is an advanced team of scientists who work together based on the latest research in genetics, anthropology, and the social sciences. We are passionate about providing our customers with accurate (and interesting!) DNA-based reports.
We use proprietary DNA analysis algorithms designed by renowned molecular geneticist Dr. Alexei Fedorov, Ph.D., who was apprentice to Nobel Prize-winning scientist Walter Gilbert at Harvard University. Alexei’s algorithm uses 527,414 hand-chosen genetic markers when analyzing someone’s ancestry.
That means that you get fascinating Ancestry reports and useful Health reports that are both detailed and accurate. We’re confident you will learn something new about yourself when you begin your journey with us!
Now some of the customer comments almost come off as they can't believe the data because it's not the family history handed down through generations etc.
But for me and my family, all I can say is whatever they are doing at CRI they are getting most of it right for us.
They will also destroy all your DNA data if you just ask them.
I also bought the advanced timeline and I searched the internet to have a look at the peoples of those places looking for family physical traits, and I found matches. Very interesting.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - loam - 06-01-2023
(05-31-2023, 09:32 PM)Ninurta Wrote: It is pretty well known that currently everyone hands out large gobs of DNA in their trash. Anyone with nefarious designs can already get it from a dumpster if they really, REALLY want your DNA...
I you want my DNA, I'm going to make you sift through my daily detritus.
(05-31-2023, 09:32 PM)Ninurta Wrote: ..and if they don't, they're not going to sift through millions of tests at a DNA company.
AI can accomplish this in a few short moments. Is raising you insurance rates 'nefarious' because of some gene you might have?
Insurance companies and other industries will have a field day. Mark my words.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - Ninurta - 06-01-2023
(06-01-2023, 01:53 PM)quintessentone Wrote: I chose CRI Genetics for my family's DNA testing, mainly because of the expertise of the scientists running the company and they give reports on ancestry, allergies, extensive other health reports, etc.
Quote:CRI Genetics (Cellular Research Institute, Genetics Department) is led by Alexei Fedorov Ph.D., a molecular geneticist with over 35 years of experience studying DNA. A former apprentice to Nobel Prize winning scientist Walter Gilbert, Alexei has created a proprietary DNA analysis algorithm using the latest breakthroughs in genetic science. His lifetime goal has been to advance mankind’s understanding of the human genome into new frontiers.
and this ...
Quote:CRI Genetics is an advanced team of scientists who work together based on the latest research in genetics, anthropology, and the social sciences. We are passionate about providing our customers with accurate (and interesting!) DNA-based reports.
We use proprietary DNA analysis algorithms designed by renowned molecular geneticist Dr. Alexei Fedorov, Ph.D., who was apprentice to Nobel Prize-winning scientist Walter Gilbert at Harvard University. Alexei’s algorithm uses 527,414 hand-chosen genetic markers when analyzing someone’s ancestry.
That means that you get fascinating Ancestry reports and useful Health reports that are both detailed and accurate. We’re confident you will learn something new about yourself when you begin your journey with us!
Now some of the customer comments almost come off as they can't believe the data because it's not the family history handed down through generations etc.
But for me and my family, all I can say is whatever they are doing at CRI they are getting most of it right for us.
They will also destroy all your DNA data if you just ask them.
I also bought the advanced timeline and I searched the internet to have a look at the peoples of those places looking for family physical traits, and I found matches. Very interesting.
Interesting information, and good solid explanations of some key concepts.
The mathematics of DNA have always fascinated me. ALL of your DNA comes from "somewhere", but not all of the DNA from that "somewhere" ever actually makes it to you. It's one of the key reasons why DNA ancestry is not genealogy. After about 7-10 generations, some of your ancestors completely disappear from your genome, yet are still genealogical ancestors - they are just no longer genetic ancestors. What's more, every one of those who disappears from your genome takes with them ALL of the DNA of ALL of their ancestors, meaning that there are huge gaps in everyone's DNA where they have ancestors that will never be found, from places they will have no clue about.
Another, perhaps related aspect of the mathematics of genealogy that intrigues me is the fact that as one goes farther back, each generation doubles in size... but also, as one goes farther back, the human population of Earth DECREASES in size. This means that, at some point in one's history, there will be more "slots" in his or her ancestry for that generation than there were people alive on Earth... and that means that some people start appearing in multiple places in one's family tree in that generation.... and the farther back in time one goes, the worse that phenomenon gets.
For myself, having calculated an average generation time of 28 years in my own family tree, that point of equilibrium is reached at between 28 and 29 generations back, between the years 1176 and 1204 AD. farther back than that, and the representation of some individuals in my family tree explodes. at 29 generations back, around 1176 AD, I will have had 536,870,912 ancestors in just that generation, while the human population of Earth at that time was around 340,000,000 people - and that means that IF I were related to every living person on Earth at that time, each one of them would appear an average of 1.579 times in my family tree at that generation.
At 32 generations back, about the time of King Henry I, say 1092 AD, each ancestor would appear in an average of 14.46 places on my family tree.
There just aren't enough people on Earth to put a unique individual in each space. At 47 generations back, around the time of Charles Martel, circa 728 AD, If I were related to everyone alive on Earth at that time, each person would appear an average of 167,545 times.
Those numbers are actually low, however, when one takes into account the fact that Australian Aborigines, for example, had been isolated from the rest of planet Earth for 40,000 years, so of course none of them could possibly appear as my direct ancestors until the early 1600's. So they will not be represented. Other isolated populations are the same, such that there is no way that any one person could possibly be related to everyone alive on Earth at that point. The pool of available ancestors shrinks on that account, meaning that each one possible will have had to appear MORE often in any given generation.
Now if we take into account the fact that anyone appearing once in the family tree is likely to appear multiple times, perhaps as many as hundreds of thousands of times, and then factor in the fact that some of those tree limbs disappear completely between 7 and 10 generations back, what we get is a necessarily skewed view of our geneaological ancestry, the people who contributed to making us who we are, but we also get a weighted view of the ones whose traits we actually carry.
That's for the autosomal DNA, the DNA from the cell nuclear chromosomes. Mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA is different in that it relates an unbroken line way back into the mists of antiquity... but only along ONE single direct line each, out of hundreds of thousands represented by the autosomal DNA. my paternal Y-DNA, for example, goes back to the Balkans, between 5000 and 5000 years ago. It represents a people who developed bronze weapons, and used them to invade to the west into Europe spreading bronze and farming as they went along conquering. My maternal mitochondrial DNA, in contrast, goes back to around 28,000 years ago, and represents paleolithic hunter-gatherers in Europe... the people that the Bronze folk conquered. Yet neither of those groups appears to be represented in the autosomal DNA. They just dropped out over the generations, and would be entirely unknown and unrepresented in my DNA if not for those two single bloodlines.
.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - Ninurta - 06-01-2023
(06-01-2023, 03:20 PM)loam Wrote:(05-31-2023, 09:32 PM)Ninurta Wrote: It is pretty well known that currently everyone hands out large gobs of DNA in their trash. Anyone with nefarious designs can already get it from a dumpster if they really, REALLY want your DNA...
I you want my DNA, I'm going to make you sift through my daily detritus.
Government types are notorious for not being averse to dumpster-diving for DNA, so don't worry, you're covered by them. It's far easier, and far more accurate to insure they are getting the right DNA, than trying to sift through private corporate databases, which are generally encrypted and anonymized.
Quote:(05-31-2023, 09:32 PM)Ninurta Wrote: ..and if they don't, they're not going to sift through millions of tests at a DNA company.
AI can accomplish this in a few short moments. Is raising you insurance rates 'nefarious' because of some gene you might have?
Insurance companies and other industries will have a field day. Mark my words.
I have my doubts about the AI thing - how would even AI separate out a particular set of DNA, and then link it to a specific identity? I suppose it might become possible with a little time and some mega quantum computing, but I doubt we are there yet.
The insurance angle was covered by Congress in 2008, when they made it illegal for insurance companies to factor DNA results into premiums. I believe they did that because a DNA result alone cannot predict likelihood of any particular ailment. other things also factor in, and the presence of a DNA vulnerability in the absence of environmental triggers will usually not express itself, so Congress reasoned that it was unreasonable for insurance companies to use that as a factor in premiums... and then made it illegal.
In the US, at least.
.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - Snarl - 06-02-2023
(06-01-2023, 01:03 AM)Ninurta Wrote:(06-01-2023, 12:33 AM)xuenchen Wrote: GOOGLE: 23andme catching criminals
There is a third-party site that most law enforcement uses to solve cold cases, rather than going to the trouble of subpoenaing data from individual testing sites. I think it's Genomelink. They register as law enforcement and then upload the cold case DNA files for comparison against the other DNA files in the database there, no subpoena required. They do that to take advantage of the fact that the site collects data from a multitude of other testing sites, rather than producing it's own. it's like a one-stop shopping center.
Disclaimer: The Army put me in the DNA database about 40 years ago. Just think of all the millions and millions of recruits who have signed up since the DoD started mandating it.
Everything about everyone is for sale. Yeah ... somebody might have to subpoena one of those companies for their records, but the company gets to _bill_ the fuck out of 'em for it. If the information damages the reputation (ability to keep making money) they can sue the government for that too.
The phone companies do it (they're the worst BTW). Your car reports its location (discreetly). The banks and big corporations report on you. And, all of 'em are making bank off the tax payer's contributions to living in a well-regulated society.
If people were suddenly confronted, by all of what the government's got on anyone at any given time, there'd be anarchy. People are practically numbed Copper Tops burning themselves out supporting The Matrix.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - Ninurta - 06-02-2023
(06-02-2023, 12:46 AM)Snarl Wrote:(06-01-2023, 01:03 AM)Ninurta Wrote:(06-01-2023, 12:33 AM)xuenchen Wrote: GOOGLE: 23andme catching criminals
There is a third-party site that most law enforcement uses to solve cold cases, rather than going to the trouble of subpoenaing data from individual testing sites. I think it's Genomelink. They register as law enforcement and then upload the cold case DNA files for comparison against the other DNA files in the database there, no subpoena required. They do that to take advantage of the fact that the site collects data from a multitude of other testing sites, rather than producing it's own. it's like a one-stop shopping center.
Disclaimer: The Army put me in the DNA database about 40 years ago. Just think of all the millions and millions of recruits who have signed up since the DoD started mandating it.
Everything about everyone is for sale. Yeah ... somebody might have to subpoena one of those companies for their records, but the company gets to _bill_ the fuck out of 'em for it. If the information damages the reputation (ability to keep making money) they can sue the government for that too.
The phone companies do it (they're the worst BTW). Your car reports its location (discreetly). The banks and big corporations report on you. And, all of 'em are making bank off the tax payer's contributions to living in a well-regulated society.
If people were suddenly confronted, by all of what the government's got on anyone at any given time, there'd be anarchy. People are practically numbed Copper Tops burning themselves out supporting The Matrix.
So true. About 45 years ago, I was made aware (due to a "visit" from the men in the gray flannel cammies) that the FBI was already maintaining a file on me. In the intervening years, they've had a bonanza if information, and an explosion of technology to keep track of it all, so I've no doubt that I've got a book-length file in multiple databases by now.
They've got fingerprints, DNA, and observational data by this point, but not likely much in the way of dental or medical records, since I've studiously avoided doctors and dentists like the plague on society they have become. That's all about to change, apparently, but hell, I'mm too old to give a fuck about it now. It's not like I can go Rambo on their asses any more if they come, but on the other hand, there's really no reason for them to come at my age and state of health. All they've gotta do at this point is wait me out until I stop breathing. It's ALL low-impact for me these days, and "they" already know that. I've no doubt it's "in the file".
Maybe when I shuffle off, they'll make a movie from the book they've got by now.
.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - quintessentone - 06-02-2023
(06-01-2023, 10:15 PM)Ninurta Wrote:(06-01-2023, 01:53 PM)quintessentone Wrote: I chose CRI Genetics for my family's DNA testing, mainly because of the expertise of the scientists running the company and they give reports on ancestry, allergies, extensive other health reports, etc.
Quote:CRI Genetics (Cellular Research Institute, Genetics Department) is led by Alexei Fedorov Ph.D., a molecular geneticist with over 35 years of experience studying DNA. A former apprentice to Nobel Prize winning scientist Walter Gilbert, Alexei has created a proprietary DNA analysis algorithm using the latest breakthroughs in genetic science. His lifetime goal has been to advance mankind’s understanding of the human genome into new frontiers.
and this ...
Quote:CRI Genetics is an advanced team of scientists who work together based on the latest research in genetics, anthropology, and the social sciences. We are passionate about providing our customers with accurate (and interesting!) DNA-based reports.
We use proprietary DNA analysis algorithms designed by renowned molecular geneticist Dr. Alexei Fedorov, Ph.D., who was apprentice to Nobel Prize-winning scientist Walter Gilbert at Harvard University. Alexei’s algorithm uses 527,414 hand-chosen genetic markers when analyzing someone’s ancestry.
That means that you get fascinating Ancestry reports and useful Health reports that are both detailed and accurate. We’re confident you will learn something new about yourself when you begin your journey with us!
Now some of the customer comments almost come off as they can't believe the data because it's not the family history handed down through generations etc.
But for me and my family, all I can say is whatever they are doing at CRI they are getting most of it right for us.
They will also destroy all your DNA data if you just ask them.
I also bought the advanced timeline and I searched the internet to have a look at the peoples of those places looking for family physical traits, and I found matches. Very interesting.
Interesting information, and good solid explanations of some key concepts.
The mathematics of DNA have always fascinated me. ALL of your DNA comes from "somewhere", but not all of the DNA from that "somewhere" ever actually makes it to you. It's one of the key reasons why DNA ancestry is not genealogy. After about 7-10 generations, some of your ancestors completely disappear from your genome, yet are still genealogical ancestors - they are just no longer genetic ancestors. What's more, every one of those who disappears from your genome takes with them ALL of the DNA of ALL of their ancestors, meaning that there are huge gaps in everyone's DNA where they have ancestors that will never be found, from places they will have no clue about.
Another, perhaps related aspect of the mathematics of genealogy that intrigues me is the fact that as one goes farther back, each generation doubles in size... but also, as one goes farther back, the human population of Earth DECREASES in size. This means that, at some point in one's history, there will be more "slots" in his or her ancestry for that generation than there were people alive on Earth... and that means that some people start appearing in multiple places in one's family tree in that generation.... and the farther back in time one goes, the worse that phenomenon gets.
For myself, having calculated an average generation time of 28 years in my own family tree, that point of equilibrium is reached at between 28 and 29 generations back, between the years 1176 and 1204 AD. farther back than that, and the representation of some individuals in my family tree explodes. at 29 generations back, around 1176 AD, I will have had 536,870,912 ancestors in just that generation, while the human population of Earth at that time was around 340,000,000 people - and that means that IF I were related to every living person on Earth at that time, each one of them would appear an average of 1.579 times in my family tree at that generation.
At 32 generations back, about the time of King Henry I, say 1092 AD, each ancestor would appear in an average of 14.46 places on my family tree.
There just aren't enough people on Earth to put a unique individual in each space. At 47 generations back, around the time of Charles Martel, circa 728 AD, If I were related to everyone alive on Earth at that time, each person would appear an average of 167,545 times.
Those numbers are actually low, however, when one takes into account the fact that Australian Aborigines, for example, had been isolated from the rest of planet Earth for 40,000 years, so of course none of them could possibly appear as my direct ancestors until the early 1600's. So they will not be represented. Other isolated populations are the same, such that there is no way that any one person could possibly be related to everyone alive on Earth at that point. The pool of available ancestors shrinks on that account, meaning that each one possible will have had to appear MORE often in any given generation.
Now if we take into account the fact that anyone appearing once in the family tree is likely to appear multiple times, perhaps as many as hundreds of thousands of times, and then factor in the fact that some of those tree limbs disappear completely between 7 and 10 generations back, what we get is a necessarily skewed view of our geneaological ancestry, the people who contributed to making us who we are, but we also get a weighted view of the ones whose traits we actually carry.
That's for the autosomal DNA, the DNA from the cell nuclear chromosomes. Mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA is different in that it relates an unbroken line way back into the mists of antiquity... but only along ONE single direct line each, out of hundreds of thousands represented by the autosomal DNA. my paternal Y-DNA, for example, goes back to the Balkans, between 5000 and 5000 years ago. It represents a people who developed bronze weapons, and used them to invade to the west into Europe spreading bronze and farming as they went along conquering. My maternal mitochondrial DNA, in contrast, goes back to around 28,000 years ago, and represents paleolithic hunter-gatherers in Europe... the people that the Bronze folk conquered. Yet neither of those groups appears to be represented in the autosomal DNA. They just dropped out over the generations, and would be entirely unknown and unrepresented in my DNA if not for those two single bloodlines.
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The proof in the pudding for me was researching the peoples of a certain region the timeline took me to and looking for family traits and I found them. Seeing is believing, IMO.
RE: DNA Testing Basics - Snarl - 06-02-2023
(06-02-2023, 03:14 PM)Ninurta Wrote:(06-02-2023, 12:46 AM)Snarl Wrote:(06-01-2023, 01:03 AM)Ninurta Wrote:(06-01-2023, 12:33 AM)xuenchen Wrote: GOOGLE: 23andme catching criminals
They do that to take advantage of the fact that the site collects data from a multitude of other testing sites, rather than producing it's own. it's like a one-stop shopping center.
If people were suddenly confronted, by all of what the government's got on anyone at any given time, there'd be anarchy. People are practically numbed Copper Tops burning themselves out supporting The Matrix.
Maybe when I shuffle off, they'll make a movie from the book they've got by now.
Better if we get it all documented now ... by ourselves. Come to think of it, last month marked the 25 anniversary of my retirement's NDA. Oh the stories I might start telling ...