Quote:Few realise the historical and current connections between Freemasonry and Islam.  In his Book ‘Masonry: Beyond the Light’, Dr. Bill Schnoebelen describes the most obvious connection between the two religions: the Shriners.

Quote:Last week, we published an article highlighting an interview with Dr. William (“Bill”) Schnoebelen, a former 33rd degree Mason, on the Almost False podcast.  During this interview, Dr. Shnoebelen mentioned a book he had written titled ‘Masonry: Beyond the Light’.

In the book, which is an important exposé for both Freemasons and non-Freemasons alike, he demonstrates the historical occult roots of Masonry in fertility cults and Illuminism.  He provides the history of the Masonic Lodge and its connection to Rosicrucianism, the Knights Templar and the Illuminati. Using God’s written word, the Christian Bible, Dr. Schnoebelen proves how the Lodge violates God’s commandments.  The book culminates in showing how Masons can be set free from Masonry’s dark bondage.

Dr. Schnoebelen’s book also describes the connections between Islam and Freemasonry. “Throughout this book, there have been allusions to the frequent historical links between the Muslim religion and the origins of Masonry. The most obvious connection with Islam in the world of the Lodge is, of course, the Shrine. Most don’t know that the actual title of the Shriner organisation is the ‘Ancient Arabic Order, Nobles of the Mystic Shrine.” Arabic Order, Nobles of the Mystic Shrine’,” he wrote.

In June, we published an article ‘Who controls the Muslim Brotherhood?’  As part of our investigation, we highlighted a lecture given by Walter Veith in 2004.  In the section of the article titled ‘Islamic Connection to the Vatican’,  we summarised Veith’s lecture.  “In addition to the symbolism and rituals, Catholic and Islamic insiders have an infamous organisation in common: Freemasonry.  Freemasons of the highest order – 32nd Degree in the Scottish Rite and 29th Degree in the York Rite – can become Shriners, Veith said.  The Shriners are an Arabic Order,” we wrote.

Quoting from James Shaw’s 1988 book ‘The Deadly Deception’, Veith pointed out that “the Shrine” used by Shriners is a shrine to Allah.  Before converting to Christianity, Shaw was a 33rd-degree Mason in the Scottish Rite.  Speaking of the ritual performed to initiate him into the Shiners, Shaw said, “With the Koran on the altar, we sealed our solemn oath in the name of ‘Allah, the God of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the God of our fathers’.”

Shaw was recounting his personal experience.  In ‘Masonry: Beyond the Light’, Dr Schnoebelen does the same, but also includes his personal research both during his time as a Mason and afterwards.  It is interesting, then, that Dr. Schnoebelen gives a similar view to Shaw.  There is no indication that the two men have collaborated, and so we have two independent witnesses who are corroborating each other.

The following is what Dr. Schnoebelen wrote in his Book ‘Masonry: Beyond the Light’.  As can be seen from the diagram below, “the Shrine” sits above the York and Scottish Rites in the Masonic hierarchy.

Quote:The Islam Connection

Throughout this book, there have been allusions to the frequent historical links between the Muslim religion and the origins of Masonry. The most obvious connection with Islam in the world of the Lodge is, of course, the Shrine. Most don’t know that the actual title of the Shriner organisation is the “Ancient Arabic Order, Nobles of the Mystic Shrine.”

Not only is the Shrine openly evocative of Arab culture, but the “shrine” is actually the sacred shrine of Islam, the Kaaba in Mecca! Few outsiders realise that behind its exotic, clownish exterior, the Shrine ceremonial is steeped in demonic Islamic religion, utterly foreign to the God of the Bible! For example, the Shrine initiate must swear the usual awful oath on the holy book of the Islamic faith, the Koran, in addition to the Bible, ending thus:

…and may Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the God of our Fathers, support me to the entire fulfilment of the same, Amen, Amen, Amen. (Shrine Ritual Monitor, Allen Publishing, pp. 35-39)

The Shriner is swearing in the name of Allah. Contrary to popular belief, the Islamic Allah is not just another name for the true God. He has no more resemblance to the God of the Bible than does the “Great Architect.”

History shows that before the “prophet” Muhammed elevated Allah to special status, he was essentially a second-rate little rock of an idol inside the pagan shrine, the Kaaba. He was one of a crowd of some 365 little “rocks” in there, and was the tribal god of Muhammed’s tribe, the Quraish.

Yet today, this “rock” is worshipped by 600 million Muslims! Like any other idol, there is a demon behind it! (Leviticus 17:7, Deuteronomy 32:16-17). That demon draws energy from being worshipped for his master, Satan! It is certain that this “Allah” draws a great deal of foul satisfaction from watching good “Christian” men kneel down and swear allegiance to him!

The Muslim denies the deity of Jesus Christ and His resurrection, to say nothing of the gospel of grace. Islam denies all the cardinal fundamentals of the Christian faith. You cannot be a faithful Christian and call Allah the “God of our fathers!” The Shriner is calling a demon named “Allah” his god!

Celestial Prostitutes
People often marvel at the high level of immorality which surrounds Shrine conventions. One of my female friends was highly offended when I told her I was joining the Shrine. She told me that whenever the Shriners were in town, she was continually harassed, and even physically accosted in an improper manner by them.

Shriners are exhorted to regard their red Fez as an analogue to the [Masons’] white apron and to never do anything while wearing it that would bring shame to their mothers. They either have very strange mothers, or their consciences have been completely numbed!

By submitting to the god of Islam, they have come under the power of a religion that has a strange view of the afterlife. Both in this life and in the next, women are viewed as property. Most people know that Muslims are polygamous, and that Islamic women in strict Muslim nations have virtually no rights. They must be covered from head to toe, and are basically treated as if they have no souls or identity of their own.

In the Islamic paradise, the men are waited on by houris-beautiful, angelic women. These women are mindless and exist only to serve the sexual needs of the Islamic “saints.” They are basically celestial prostitutes! If this Islamic spirit has come upon the Shrine “Nobles,” no wonder they behave like over sexed adolescents in these conventions.

In the “Jesters” club, an elite group within the Shrine, women have reported to us that their husbands abused them physically and sexually and even share them with other Jesters, like a wife-swapping club. If this is true in the larger Order, it could explain the horrible Islamic attitude toward women which basically regards them as objects.

With or without the immorality, the Islamic powers which loom over the Shrine should make it a place any Christian would flee.

Quote:The red Fez itself, associated with the Shrine, is actually an article of ceremonial attire among Moroccan Muslims. Its colour is said to reflect the fact that centuries ago, Islamic armies invaded Fez and slaughtered thousands of Christians who resided there. The blood of Christian martyrs ran in the streets, and the Islamic “holy” warriors dipped their headgear in the blood and dyed them scarlet. Thus, the Fez is a commemoration of the murder of thousands of Christians! No wonder Satan smiles when Christians wear it proudly!

How is Jesus glorified by men who are supposedly His disciples riding around on funny little expensive motor cars in parades wearing evil red hats, while millions of people have never heard about the good news of salvation through the cross?

I’m not trying to be a spoil-sport here, and I like a good time as much as the next guy. However, this should be done only after your spiritual obligations have been met! It is estimated that the average Christian in the US gives 3 cents a day to missions. That is certainly less than the typical Shriner spends on his activities! Every missiologist I have read would agree that the US is far behind in its support of foreign missions. We are nowhere near being tithe-payers!

I’m not trying to be a legalist. We are not saved by tithing. However, if the vast majority of Christian men aren’t paying a full tithe, (and they are not) there is something wrong. This is literally draining millions of dollars a year out of the church at a time when many Godly missionary organisations (both church and parachurch) are barely able to keep afloat! What a fine trick on the church by Satan!

(11-05-2025, 06:27 AM)babushka Wrote: Show me a church that doesn't have cell groups you, are supposed to make them. Many start business together.

This stuff is always just people that is upset that they are not 'in the club' to me while totally being in clubs themselves. Religious affiliations always brings out the boogey man, it's all arguably fantasy already so you know the mind just runs free when contemplating these matters and makes up horrors.

At the end of the day it's all just ordinary people and when it comes to making up fantasy or conspiracy it's really just a reflection of your own shadow.

Not implying weird and questionable groups doesn't exists. Even the islamic dudes are just dudes at the end of the day not everyone is extremists and it's not confined to one group of people or race etc. If you grew up there, you would be like that also. We are judging fellow men.

I don't know where we are at these days 300 000 years? We still declare others subhuman, it's not the way we should be going.

(11-05-2025, 06:16 AM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: Secret History #9: The Theory of Everything. In this lesson he also covers secret societies.



Yale professor who teaches Beijing high school kids. Wish I had such a teacher when I was in high school.

Note his lessons are his theories & speculation to make you think. He clearly states he's not here to teach facts, but he does present some cold hard truths you can't dismiss.


Where do secret societies come from? What do they teach?



Kids got their minds blown on this one:

Secret History #6: The Psychology of Evil (Graphic and Disturbing, Viewer Discretion Advised) What is mind control, and how does it work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdfD44DkqA


Apparently, he's extremely popular on Youtube and does NOT speak kindly of Yale in one of his vids. 

Anyways, something different and I liked his presentation series. YMMV!

(11-05-2025, 07:03 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 06:27 AM)babushka Wrote: Show me a church that doesn't have cell groups you, are supposed to make them. Many start business together.

This stuff is always just people that is upset that they are not 'in the club' to me while totally being in clubs themselves. Religious affiliations always brings out the boogey man, it's all arguably fantasy already so you know the mind just runs free when contemplating these matters and makes up horrors.

At the end of the day it's all just ordinary people and when it comes to making up fantasy or conspiracy it's really just a reflection of your own shadow.

Not implying weird and questionable groups doesn't exists. Even the islamic dudes are just dudes at the end of the day not everyone is extremists and it's not confined to one group of people or race etc. If you grew up there, you would be like that also. We are judging fellow men.

I don't know where we are at these days 300 000 years? We still declare others subhuman, it's not the way we should be going.

If you didn`t notice, World is run by transnational ruling class , often cohesive also , working in tandem to shape our World . The groups keeps things quite hush hush .....it`s for their own secret private meetings and not for the common people .

There are many different organisations , think tanks , etc......however there seems to be desired connections between them ,so much that we could see the world also like without no borders to some degree, because the secret societys work all over with their inner coonections . Freemasons are just one such .

The societys can and will shape our culture , all living .....They can shape what people think, by manipulating their minds.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it

---

(11-05-2025, 06:16 AM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: Secret History #9: The Theory of Everything. In this lesson he also covers secret societies.



Yale professor who teaches Beijing high school kids. Wish I had such a teacher when I was in high school.

Note his lessons are his theories & speculation to make you think. He clearly states he's not here to teach facts, but he does present some cold hard truths you can't dismiss.


Where do secret societies come from? What do they teach?



Kids got their minds blown on this one:

Secret History #6: The Psychology of Evil (Graphic and Disturbing, Viewer Discretion Advised) What is mind control, and how does it work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdfD44DkqA


Apparently, he's extremely popular on Youtube and does NOT speak kindly of Yale in one of his vids. 

Anyways, something different and I liked his presentation series. YMMV!

That Professor Jiang is interesting chap , i want to listen him 

(11-05-2025, 07:29 AM)babushka Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 07:03 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 06:27 AM)babushka Wrote: Show me a church that doesn't have cell groups you, are supposed to make them. Many start business together.

This stuff is always just people that is upset that they are not 'in the club' to me while totally being in clubs themselves. Religious affiliations always brings out the boogey man, it's all arguably fantasy already so you know the mind just runs free when contemplating these matters and makes up horrors.

At the end of the day it's all just ordinary people and when it comes to making up fantasy or conspiracy it's really just a reflection of your own shadow.

Not implying weird and questionable groups doesn't exists. Even the islamic dudes are just dudes at the end of the day not everyone is extremists and it's not confined to one group of people or race etc. If you grew up there, you would be like that also. We are judging fellow men.

I don't know where we are at these days 300 000 years? We still declare others subhuman, it's not the way we should be going.

If you didn`t notice, World is run by transnational ruling class , often cohesive also , working in tandem to shape our World . The groups keeps things quite hush hush .....it`s for their own secret private meetings and not for the common people .

There are many different organisations , think tanks , etc......however there seems to be desired connections between them ,so much that we could see the world also like without no borders to some degree, because the secret societys work all over with their inner coonections . Freemasons are just one such .

The societys can and will shape our culture , all living .....They can shape what people think, by manipulating their minds.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it

---

(11-05-2025, 06:16 AM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: Secret History #9: The Theory of Everything. In this lesson he also covers secret societies.



Yale professor who teaches Beijing high school kids. Wish I had such a teacher when I was in high school.

Note his lessons are his theories & speculation to make you think. He clearly states he's not here to teach facts, but he does present some cold hard truths you can't dismiss.


Where do secret societies come from? What do they teach?



Kids got their minds blown on this one:

Secret History #6: The Psychology of Evil (Graphic and Disturbing, Viewer Discretion Advised) What is mind control, and how does it work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdfD44DkqA


Apparently, he's extremely popular on Youtube and does NOT speak kindly of Yale in one of his vids. 

Anyways, something different and I liked his presentation series. YMMV!

That Professor Jiang is interesting chap , i want to listen him 

Excuse me? "If you didn`t notice", what's this about? Seems a little bit condescending. You shot me down and then said what I said? Of course you are not in the clubs and of course they exists in all forms at all levels of society and yes many will have religious connotations why wouldn't they?

Your just upset that I didn't go Islam bad. It's really stupid. I hope you find love in your heart some day.

(11-05-2025, 07:40 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 07:29 AM)babushka Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 07:03 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 06:27 AM)babushka Wrote: Show me a church that doesn't have cell groups you, are supposed to make them. Many start business together.

This stuff is always just people that is upset that they are not 'in the club' to me while totally being in clubs themselves. Religious affiliations always brings out the boogey man, it's all arguably fantasy already so you know the mind just runs free when contemplating these matters and makes up horrors.

At the end of the day it's all just ordinary people and when it comes to making up fantasy or conspiracy it's really just a reflection of your own shadow.

Not implying weird and questionable groups doesn't exists. Even the islamic dudes are just dudes at the end of the day not everyone is extremists and it's not confined to one group of people or race etc. If you grew up there, you would be like that also. We are judging fellow men.

I don't know where we are at these days 300 000 years? We still declare others subhuman, it's not the way we should be going.

If you didn`t notice, World is run by transnational ruling class , often cohesive also , working in tandem to shape our World . The groups keeps things quite hush hush .....it`s for their own secret private meetings and not for the common people .

There are many different organisations , think tanks , etc......however there seems to be desired connections between them ,so much that we could see the world also like without no borders to some degree, because the secret societys work all over with their inner coonections . Freemasons are just one such .

The societys can and will shape our culture , all living .....They can shape what people think, by manipulating their minds.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it

---

(11-05-2025, 06:16 AM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: Secret History #9: The Theory of Everything. In this lesson he also covers secret societies.



Yale professor who teaches Beijing high school kids. Wish I had such a teacher when I was in high school.

Note his lessons are his theories & speculation to make you think. He clearly states he's not here to teach facts, but he does present some cold hard truths you can't dismiss.


Where do secret societies come from? What do they teach?



Kids got their minds blown on this one:

Secret History #6: The Psychology of Evil (Graphic and Disturbing, Viewer Discretion Advised) What is mind control, and how does it work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdfD44DkqA


Apparently, he's extremely popular on Youtube and does NOT speak kindly of Yale in one of his vids. 

Anyways, something different and I liked his presentation series. YMMV!

That Professor Jiang is interesting chap , i want to listen him 

Excuse me? "If you didn`t notice", what's this about? Seems a little bit condescending. You shot me down and then said what I said? Of course you are not in the clubs and of course they exists in all forms at all levels of society and yes many will have religious connotations why wouldn't they?

Your just upset that I didn't go Islam bad. It's really stupid. I hope you find love in your heart some day.

Well here in Europe we have seen the face of islam ....go to walk in some UK town where you need to watch your back for your own safety . And btw , they were invited to europe, by ruling elites....they let them come, so thats where we can go to secret societys again.....they make the decisions that affects hundreds millions Europeans , without our full informed consent or democratic process .

Not forgetting the whole Midle-East lunacy

---

One Richard Coudenhove Kalergi had so called " Kalergi plan "  in mind....he was freemason also. 

Fast forward many decades , and all is proceeding ....

(11-05-2025, 08:16 AM)babushka Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 07:40 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 07:29 AM)babushka Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 07:03 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 06:27 AM)babushka Wrote: Show me a church that doesn't have cell groups you, are supposed to make them. Many start business together.

This stuff is always just people that is upset that they are not 'in the club' to me while totally being in clubs themselves. Religious affiliations always brings out the boogey man, it's all arguably fantasy already so you know the mind just runs free when contemplating these matters and makes up horrors.

At the end of the day it's all just ordinary people and when it comes to making up fantasy or conspiracy it's really just a reflection of your own shadow.

Not implying weird and questionable groups doesn't exists. Even the islamic dudes are just dudes at the end of the day not everyone is extremists and it's not confined to one group of people or race etc. If you grew up there, you would be like that also. We are judging fellow men.

I don't know where we are at these days 300 000 years? We still declare others subhuman, it's not the way we should be going.

If you didn`t notice, World is run by transnational ruling class , often cohesive also , working in tandem to shape our World . The groups keeps things quite hush hush .....it`s for their own secret private meetings and not for the common people .

There are many different organisations , think tanks , etc......however there seems to be desired connections between them ,so much that we could see the world also like without no borders to some degree, because the secret societys work all over with their inner coonections . Freemasons are just one such .

The societys can and will shape our culture , all living .....They can shape what people think, by manipulating their minds.

It's a big club, and you ain't in it

---

(11-05-2025, 06:16 AM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: Secret History #9: The Theory of Everything. In this lesson he also covers secret societies.



Yale professor who teaches Beijing high school kids. Wish I had such a teacher when I was in high school.

Note his lessons are his theories & speculation to make you think. He clearly states he's not here to teach facts, but he does present some cold hard truths you can't dismiss.


Where do secret societies come from? What do they teach?



Kids got their minds blown on this one:

Secret History #6: The Psychology of Evil (Graphic and Disturbing, Viewer Discretion Advised) What is mind control, and how does it work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PdfD44DkqA


Apparently, he's extremely popular on Youtube and does NOT speak kindly of Yale in one of his vids. 

Anyways, something different and I liked his presentation series. YMMV!

That Professor Jiang is interesting chap , i want to listen him 

Excuse me? "If you didn`t notice", what's this about? Seems a little bit condescending. You shot me down and then said what I said? Of course you are not in the clubs and of course they exists in all forms at all levels of society and yes many will have religious connotations why wouldn't they?

Your just upset that I didn't go Islam bad. It's really stupid. I hope you find love in your heart some day.

Well here in Europe we have seen the face of islam ....go to walk in some UK town where you need to watch your back for your own safety . And btw , they were invited to europe, by ruling elites....they let them come, so thats where we can go to secret societys again.....they make the decisions that affects hundreds millions Europeans , without our full informed consent or democratic process .

Not forgetting the whole Midle-East lunacy

---

One Richard Coudenhove Kalergi had so called " Kalergi plan "  in mind....he was freemason also. 

Fast forward many decades , and all is proceeding ....

There are two muslim people sitting next to me, they are totally 'normal'.  The only time their faith becomes apparent is at BBQ's. Perhaps the people you are seeing grew up in a environment that maybe wasn't the best and now they are a new place. You can't just dehumanise people like that.

What is your own history? How is it that these people are the way they are?

(11-05-2025, 08:42 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote: There are growing huge problems with immigration , specifically with muslims because they dont`t want to integrate . If you import huge amount of them in to country, like example UK , you import their problems too also in to country .It`s a total failure , that is destroying society, culture , country ......like a cancer.

Quote:The Fair Housing Act (FHA) was enacted "to provide, within constitutional limitations, for fair housing throughout the United States." The original 1968 Act prohibited discrimination on the basis of "race, color, religion, or national origin" in the sale or rental of housing, the financing of housing, or the provision of brokerage services. In 1974, Congress amended the Act to add sex discrimination to the list of prohibited activities. 

Quote:Equal Credit Opportunity Act: This act was passed in 1974 to prevent discrimination in lending, giving women the legal right to control their own finances.

(11-05-2025, 10:37 AM)babushka Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 08:42 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote: There are growing huge problems with immigration , specifically with muslims because they dont`t want to integrate . If you import huge amount of them in to country, like example UK , you import their problems too also in to country .It`s a total failure , that is destroying society, culture , country ......like a cancer.

Okay well on that, nobody will integrate, people just bring their own culture. It's always been that way, that is why it's always proposed as diversification. When it comes to religion, it's the afterlife we are talking about, the eternal life, not the minuscule amount of time you spend here and you get to greet your maker. You can't change that for people, it's literally the stuff you die for.

Over generations you can influence people, many generations. What you consider normal today was weird 50 years ago check this https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/R48113#:~:text=The%20Fair%20Housing%20Act%20(FHA)%20was%20enacted%20%22to%20provide,Key%20Takeaways

Quote:The Fair Housing Act (FHA) was enacted "to provide, within constitutional limitations, for fair housing throughout the United States." The original 1968 Act prohibited discrimination on the basis of "race, color, religion, or national origin" in the sale or rental of housing, the financing of housing, or the provision of brokerage services. In 1974, Congress amended the Act to add sex discrimination to the list of prohibited activities. 

Up until the mid 70's you couldn't even have a credit cards as a Woman in the west

Quote:Equal Credit Opportunity Act: This act was passed in 1974 to prevent discrimination in lending, giving women the legal right to control their own finances.

.

---

classic thread though, questions unanswered and challenges unanswered, just sliding the topic to something else

(11-05-2025, 10:59 AM)Kenzo1 Wrote: We dont want them to bring up their culture .

Wave of Muslim rape cases across Europe

How Pakistan’s rape culture led to the UK grooming gangs

(11-05-2025, 11:08 AM)Ninurta Wrote: How did this conversation go from "secret societies" to "all Moslems is nice folks, just misunderstood"?


The problem is not Islam. it's only perceived to be Islam in Europe because that is the majority of the invasion forces there. The problem is the INVASIONS themselves. Massive movements of migrants seeking to take over territory that is not theirs to take.


So, let's decide what this thread is about - is it about Secret Societies, or is it about evil Moslems vs. good Moslems?

..

(11-05-2025, 11:21 AM)babushka Wrote: Agree, looks like an invasion to me also. As it was the religion inserted into the conspiracy could have been anything, Islam was chosen because controversy and no other reason, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

Quote:When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false:

1. Salvation can be gained by man’s good works.

2. Jesus is just one of many equally wise prophets.

3. He approaches the lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance (the Bible says Christians are children of the light).

4. The Great (or Grand) Architect of the Universe (GAOTU) is representative of all gods in all religions.

By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the rituals of the lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel. Even if the Christian Mason knows the truth and believes in Christ, other lodge members are trusting in Freemasonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By his membership in a syncretistic organization, the Christian has severely compromised his witness.

Masonry contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture on numerous issues. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any organization that has any connection with Freemasonry.

(11-05-2025, 11:08 AM)Ninurta Wrote: How did this conversation go from "secret societies" to "all Moslems is nice folks, just misunderstood"?

Some Moslems ARE nice people. Many are not. The fact is, that's neither here nor there. A few, a very few, have managed to separate the religion of Islam from the socio-political-economic system of Islam that has embedded itself with the religion. Those few, if they survive, may manage to bring Islam out of the 7th century and into the 21st century. Don't hold your breath, though, because as it was with Christianity, it will also be a very long process for Islam, if it ever succeeds.

In Europe, the problem is not Islam, the problem is a clash of cultures brought on by uncontrolled migrations. It's the same problem as in the US,where the mass migrations have nothing to do with Islam for the most part. Here, they are from another culture entirely, but the problem is the same. It's all to do with a massive influx of a foreign culture that has no intention to integrate into the pre-existent society.

That makes it more of a "take over" than an immigration, both here and over there.

It's nothing to do with the religions, it's everything to do with which populations were closest to hand for the "elites" to throw  at the targeted societies. In Europe, it was Middle Eastern and North African Moslems who were most convenient to be thrown at the society. Here in the US, it was central and South American Hispanics who were most convenient to throw at our society in massive, overwhelming numbers.

There are two former Moslems living in my house. FORMER Moslems. That means, boys and girls, that they are what Moslems call "apostates", and are therefore subject to summary execution under Islamic law. Most schools of Islamic jurisprudence give an apostate two days to repent and return to Islam. After that, they are subject to summary execution by any Moslem who cares to kill them. That's the law. If any Moslem tells you any different, they are lying to you. So, those two former Moslems are here specifically so that I can control the environment and approaches, and cause any problems that might come looking for them to disappear permanently, never to be seen or heard from again. Just POOF!, vanished. It's a kind of magic.

That, boys and girls, is a fact. it's an ugly fact, but a fact nonetheless. Another fact is that while the invaders - Moslems in Europe, Hispanics in the US - agitate for "multiculturalism" and "Inclusion", you will find no such concepts at work in most of the nations they came from. One has to ask themselves why that is. Your answer to that question may differ from mine.

The problem is not Islam. it's only perceived to be Islam in Europe because that is the majority of the invasion forces there. The problem is the INVASIONS themselves. Massive movements of migrants seeking to take over territory that is not theirs to take.

Islam is certainly a primitive religion, two steps above Animism and only one step above the Polytheism that it arose from, but it - by itself - is not the problem. It has the potential to evolve into a  benign, peaceful religion if it ever finds the will to do so.

The bigger problem is the groups facilitating these mass invasions, both here and in Europe. I don't know if they are Secret Societies or not. Certainly, at least some of their machinations are achieved in secret, but at the same time they have eminently public organs promoting this lunacy. If, as Masons or Shriners or whatever else one may have, they are seen as "Secret" Societies, the fact that we know they exist means their secrecy truly sucks. The operative ideal on "secret" is secrecy, and they seem to be pretty dismal at that endeavor.

Are Masons Moslems? Are Moslems Masons? I don't know, and I don't care. I'm neither a Mason nor a Moslem, so what they do in private ain't none of my damned business. What they do in public is another story, because as a member of the public, that makes it my business.

So, let's decide what this thread is about - is it about Secret Societies, or is it about evil Moslems vs. good Moslems?

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(11-05-2025, 04:46 PM)Kenzo1 Wrote: The thread is i guess more about secret societys .  I fundamentally oppose any unelected group or secret society that trys to steer / decide / force the outcome of everything in World / country level . It`s basically some kind of hidden totalitarian power used to control other people .....in the shadows while they drink brandy and smoke cigars in their meetings. F em all .

(11-05-2025, 04:58 PM)F2d5thCav Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 04:46 PM)Kenzo1 Wrote: The thread is i guess more about secret societys .  I fundamentally oppose any unelected group or secret society that trys to steer / decide / force the outcome of everything in World / country level . It`s basically some kind of hidden totalitarian power used to control other people .....in the shadows while they drink brandy and smoke cigars in their meetings. F em all .

My take on the Masons is that many in the lower levels are "multidimensional" ... they are junior Masons but may also be devout Christians.  The low level people do some good works.  Where IMO it gets shady is at the high levels of their (and other) organizations.

I get why people join organizations like the Masons ... much of it is networking ... good connections that help with business, loans, people who will help you in rough situations, etc.  It is sort of a way of belonging to a tribe when one has no tribe in terms of family, clans, etc.

Very high level is something else.  Lots of backroom deals and "secret history" to which ordinary people are not privy.

Quote:The Rhodes Scholarships, established by the terms of Cecil Rhodes's seventh will, are
known to everyone. What is not so widely known is that Rhodes in five previous wills
left his fortune to form a secret society, which was to devote itself to the preservation and
expansion of the British Empire. And what does not seem to be known to anyone is that
this secret society was created by Rhodes and his principal trustee, Lord Milner, and
continues to exist to this day. To be sure, this secret society is not a childish thing like the
Ku Klux Klan, and it does not have any secret robes, secret handclasps, or secret
passwords. It does not need any of these, since its members know each other intimately.
It probably has no oaths of secrecy nor any formal procedure of initiation. It does,
however, exist and holds secret meetings, over which the senior member present presides.
At various times since 1891, these meetings have been presided over by Rhodes, Lord
Milner, Lord Selborne, Sir Patrick Duncan, Field Marshal Jan Smuts, Lord Lothian, and
Lord Brand. They have been held in all the British Dominions, starting in South Africa
about 1903; in various places in London, chiefly 175 Piccadilly; at various colleges at
Oxford, chiefly All Souls; and at many English country houses such as Tring Park,
Blickling Hall, Cliveden, and others.

(11-05-2025, 04:46 PM)Kenzo1 Wrote: The thread is i guess more about secret societys .  I fundamentally oppose any unelected group or secret society that trys to steer / decide / force the outcome of everything in World / country level . It`s basically some kind of hidden totalitarian power used to control other people .....in the shadows while they drink brandy and smoke cigars in their meetings. F em all .

That apostates thing is just so crazy and wrong , pure lunacy .If that represent islam , it`s not looking a peacefull religion.

(11-05-2025, 06:15 PM)F2d5thCav Wrote: So here is something that today would be attacked as "conspiracy theory":

Quote:The Rhodes Scholarships, established by the terms of Cecil Rhodes's seventh will, are
known to everyone. What is not so widely known is that Rhodes in five previous wills
left his fortune to form a secret society, which was to devote itself to the preservation and
expansion of the British Empire. And what does not seem to be known to anyone is that
this secret society was created by Rhodes and his principal trustee, Lord Milner, and
continues to exist to this day. To be sure, this secret society is not a childish thing like the
Ku Klux Klan, and it does not have any secret robes, secret handclasps, or secret
passwords. It does not need any of these, since its members know each other intimately.
It probably has no oaths of secrecy nor any formal procedure of initiation. It does,
however, exist and holds secret meetings, over which the senior member present presides.
At various times since 1891, these meetings have been presided over by Rhodes, Lord
Milner, Lord Selborne, Sir Patrick Duncan, Field Marshal Jan Smuts, Lord Lothian, and
Lord Brand. They have been held in all the British Dominions, starting in South Africa
about 1903; in various places in London, chiefly 175 Piccadilly; at various colleges at
Oxford, chiefly All Souls; and at many English country houses such as Tring Park,
Blickling Hall, Cliveden, and others.

This "Milner Group" had tremendous influence in events of the 20th century.

Was the above written by a feverish believer in conspiracy theories ?

Not at all.  In fact, it was written by a well respected professor of history at Georgetown University: Carroll Quigley.

From the preface to "The Anglo American establishment", published in 1981.

Of note is that his courses were very popular with the Washington establishment.

Who needs a secret handshake when secret meetings can be arranged by other means ? 

(11-05-2025, 07:54 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(11-05-2025, 04:46 PM)Kenzo1 Wrote: The thread is i guess more about secret societys .  I fundamentally oppose any unelected group or secret society that trys to steer / decide / force the outcome of everything in World / country level . It`s basically some kind of hidden totalitarian power used to control other people .....in the shadows while they drink brandy and smoke cigars in their meetings. F em all .

That apostates thing is just so crazy and wrong , pure lunacy .If that represent islam , it`s not looking a peacefull religion.

I'm opposed to Overlords in any form, whether secret or in-your-face overlords. A man must be able to think for himself and act for himself, unfettered by someone else's dogmas. That is the essence of freedom and liberty.

As for apostasy and violent religions, ANY religion is only as peaceful as it's individual adherents interpret it to be. Not so long ago, the Catholic Church had an iron grip on European governments, and promoted some pretty soul-crushing doctrines to facilitate it's continued grip on power. There were the stake-burnings and torture of alleged "heretics" to contend with, for example, not to mention the Spanish Inquisition, all done in the name of a God who did not know the torturers. While these things were done in the name of their God, the actual reasons were to maintain the grip of power over people of the Catholic Church itself, or the various heads of state ("kings") of Europe.

A glaring example would be the destruction of the French Huguenot settlements in the Americas by agents of the Spanish Crown - all done in the name of their God, and claimed as acts of piety, but in reality done to keep the French out of slave-lands claimed by the Spanish. Learning of the massacres at Charlesfort and Fort Caroline in Florida and South Carolina respectively by Menendez makes for some pretty harrowing reading.

My position on such things is that any god who requires his adherents to maim and murder on his behalf, who cannot seem to get it done for himself if he wants it done, but must rely on the arms of his followers, is not much of a god in my book. I cannot bring myself to follow a "god" if I am more powerful than that"god" is, and must do it's bidding because it cannot do things for itself.

Likewise, a "god" who can only keep followers through torture and murder is not a "god" I care to follow. If that "god" doesn't have anything positive to offer and has to keep folks in line by killing them at the hands of their fellows, then it's not a "god" I want anything to do with.

That goes for "Christian" and Moslem "gods" alike. If the "gods" they claim are weaker than their own right arms, then maybe they should seek out another God.

.