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What Document Files Do You Use? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 07-24-2025
Hey all. A basic computer question.
Since I've been playing around with these Local AI Apps, I've found they are limited to certain document file types.
I've been using all kinds of "word processors" since before Windows 3 and have some files in formats that are no longer used. I've used Word Perfect since the late 90s, and have been saving those as other document file types usable in most of my other programs and apps. I have had to use my older computer to do that now as Windows 10 can't seem to run it, so I do that as I go along.
I have always thought that basic text (.TXT) was accepted by all programs regardless, and Notepad can read a lot of unknown file types as a TXT file. Basic text documents have no formatting, but could be useful as archival records and for use in applications where all else fails. Also, it will be as small a file as you can get while retaining all the information.
The second most useful document file for me has been RTF text file that is used in Word and others text editors. However, that format is now outdated in favor of .DOC and .DOCx files for simple format document files.
Next document of choice for me is the PDF format and after that, I'm not going for any specialized text editor format files like WordPerfect Documents (.WPD).
So, any thoughts to add or advice to give?
I'm thinking for the purpose of archiving, TXT file format is a must. So, I'm restructuring my directory tree to have separate files for each type and I use around six it seems (.WPD, .DOC, .DOCx, .RTF, .TXT, and "other" like .HTML).
Everything should be "saved as" or "exported as" a .TXT file where ever possible. Any related files like images can be saved separately. It means a lot of work making folders and getting things in order. Eventually, I'll delete all the old outdated file types for the new standard ones.
I haven't made up my mind on images but .JPG and .GIF for raster images probably. I haven't thought about what is best for vector images yet.
RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - Ninurta - 07-24-2025
I used WordStar .WS back in the 80's and early 90's, but had to covert all of those I could to other formats fairly early on as WordStar faded away.
Through the Windows Era, I used RTF whenever possible over .DOC or DOCx files. It was a rare thing for me to have a working installation of MS Office.
I used both OpenOffice and Apache Office starting in the Windows Era, which has cross-platform versions for both Windows and Linux. After Windows died and I migrated to Linux, it's been mostly OpenOffice .ODT. But OpenOffice can both read and write quite a few formats, including the Windows formats like ,DOC and .RTF, as well as write .PDF files from any of the other formats.
For images, .JPG has been my go-to, but also .GIF if I needed to animate an image, .BMP if I needed absolute pixel-for pixel fidelity, .PNG if I need any transparency in an image. I avoid the newer .WEBP and WEBM formats like the plague. Image viewers are just now starting to catch up to those latter two formats, and I think the ones I actually use will likely be available for some time to come. I don't need any WEBP images that I can't actually see. If I download an image in one of those formats, I immediately convert it to some other format - ANY other format - using IrfanView.
For spreadsheets and the like, it's usually either a Windows Office format, or an OpenOffice format, with the occasional .CSV file which is mostly universal, but can retain less formatting information.
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RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 07-24-2025
@Ninurta
I hadn't even thought about cross-platform file formats like you are talking about, but it is good to know that text and PDF files are more or less universal. I don't know if DOC or DOCx will be a good replacement for RTF-formatted files or if they will work well across platforms.
You mentioned the BMP and PNG file formats for raster graphics. I prefer BMP as a higher quality standard over JPG. For vector graphics, I always used EPS with my graphics programs; however, the SVG format is common on the internet. PDF can incorporate vector graphics, so it covers text and both types of image graphics in one document. Also, PDFs are standard for forms, contracts, instruction guides, etc.
RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - EndtheMadnessNow - 07-24-2025
I used MSWord exclusively until the viruses started running rampant and switched to RTF & plain TXT (ASCII). Later dropped both in favor of TXT UTF-8 standard encoding and PDF/A. UTF-8 preserves characer encoding such as thouse weird characters like the umlaut, accents, and non-latin characters. Textpad or Notepad++ are the best editors, imo.
PDF/A compliant (/A stands for archive) is an ISO standard for the permanent archiving of formatted documents and should be readable for longer than more conventional PDF formats. PDF/A differs from PDF where PDF/A files are self-contained which elminates the common problem with garbled layout and missing characters. Data I know I'm not going to edit or very rarely I save into PDF/A files.
The long-term readability of the PDF/A format is achieved by dispensing with certain functions and embedding all fonts in the file. A PDF/A file is recognizable by the blue bar in Adobe Reader. By default it will open as READ ONLY until you enable editing.
IMAGES: About the same as Ninurta. For photos where you have the origin source, archivist perfectionists (and all gov't libraries & most Univer libraries) usually go with .TIFF (for lossless image archiving) as it supports the CMYK color model for printing. I rarely ever use TIFF and the downside is you need massive amounts of storage space that make it cost prohibitive. Go with PNG.
BMP is bloated proprietary crap and never had a good use for it. Might as well use PNG for lossless image compression with less space consuming plus it is an established open file format, developed by the PNG Working Group.
RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - F2d5thCav - 07-25-2025
Like Ninurta, I use LibreOffice (the modern version of Open Office). As good as MS Office and free. Includes a nice drawing package.
For graphics, I also think PNG is good, but JPG is also okay for some images that don't suffer much from compression.
PDF is useful as is epub.
For graphics, I also think PNG is good, but JPG is also okay for some images that don't suffer much from compression.
PDF is useful as is epub.
RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 07-25-2025
(07-24-2025, 11:32 PM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: . . . TXT UTF-8 standard encoding and PDF/A. UTF-8 preserves characer encoding such as thouse weird characters like the umlaut, accents, and non-latin characters. Textpad or Notepad++ are the best editors, imo.
PDF/A compliant (/A stands for archive) is an ISO standard for the permanent archiving of formatted documents and should be readable for longer than more conventional PDF formats. PDF/A differs from PDF where PDF/A files are self-contained which elminates the common problem with garbled layout and missing characters. Data I know I'm not going to edit or very rarely I save into PDF/A files.
The long-term readability of the PDF/A format is achieved by dispensing with certain functions and embedding all fonts in the file. A PDF/A file is recognizable by the blue bar in Adobe Reader. By default it will open as READ ONLY until you enable editing.
. . .usually go with .TIFF (for lossless image archiving) as it supports the CMYK color model for printing. I rarely ever use TIFF and the downside is you need massive amounts of storage space that make it cost prohibitive. Go with PNG.
BMP is bloated proprietary crap and never had a good use for it. Might as well use PNG for lossless image compression with less space consuming plus it is an established open file format, developed by the PNG Working Group.
I used to use Tiff all the time for printed images I jobbed out to the printer, and I used it for archived material like you stated. Most recently I scanned a stereoscope photo card collection as Tiffs for printing as reproductions.
Quote:The most popular image file type in use is PNG, with a usage rate of 82.1% of all websites.
So, to summarize, UTF-8 Text format, PNG for decent images, and PDF/A compliant for documents.
Now, what about universal vector graphics? SVG is strictly graphics while EPS can include text. Also it is the most popular, so SVG is choice. We haven't even gotten into media like audio and video. WAV and MPEG for audio and video? Keep in mind, we are talking what will persist for archiving and is cross platform. Files we could use for any app on any system now or in foreseeable the future.
RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - FCD - 07-25-2025
The most accurate, pixel for pixel image files are he .RAW format. Virtually all professional photographers utilize this format, but you do have to know what you're doing with it. Many computer systems won't even recognize a .RAW file as a file at all, so it won't even show up on a search. It, however, is just what the file extension says it is; it is the native image in its most raw state (not some proprietary file type). Most modern cameras convert the files to some other format before you can export them from the camera, but higher end cameras will now export the actual .RAW files directly. If you ever intend to do some more advanced manipulation of an image, such as layering of multiple images for a better final image, really need to be done using the .RAW format. It's not impossible with .JPG and other similar files, just harder. The other truly accurate image file type is the .TFF file. These are also pixel for pixel correct images. If accurate representation of all the pixels is important to you, these are the file types you should be looking at using.
Celestial images is one area where layering is critically important. You can, for example, eliminate all of the Earth's rotation from layering these types of images. Even if you have a high end Equatorial mount on your telescope or camera, there is still motion captured in the image. But if, for example, you layer several (sometimes even dozens) of the same image, you can eliminate almost all of the blur caused by the Earth's rotation. Off-topic a little, but I thought I'd just throw this in.
As for text files, the only problem with .TXT files is, it will eliminate all formatting which is where a lot of your proprietary file types come from. If a document is well written with good grammar, then formatting shouldn't matter too much, but for a lot of people removing the formatting can change the meaning of their document entirely in some cases.
edit - As for me personally, I generally use the .DOCX format because it's cross-compatible with so many other platforms. For images, I use the .RAW format and ultimately convert to generally .JPG with the finished image. If we want to get really confusing, then we should talk about video formats and video compression algorithms in particular! That can get pretty complex because they often involve more than one frame and cross-frame extrapolation.
RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - Ninurta - 07-25-2025
(07-24-2025, 08:02 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: @Ninurta
I hadn't even thought about cross-platform file formats like you are talking about, but it is good to know that text and PDF files are more or less universal. I don't know if DOC or DOCx will be a good replacement for RTF-formatted files or if they will work well across platforms.
You mentioned the BMP and PNG file formats for raster graphics. I prefer BMP as a higher quality standard over JPG. For vector graphics, I always used EPS with my graphics programs; however, the SVG format is common on the internet. PDF can incorporate vector graphics, so it covers text and both types of image graphics in one document. Also, PDFs are standard for forms, contracts, instruction guides, etc.
It's the program I use ( open Office) which is cross-platform, rater than the file formats themselves. They release versions for at least Windows and Linux - I don't know if there is a MAC version, but I suppose their is. I've never had any practical use for Macs other than one single class in college, so I've never used them much.
The encryption software I use is also cross-platform, with cversions for Windows, MacOS, and most flavors of Linux. It's called "VeraCrypt", and the container files it creates can be read in any of those platforms with the appropriate software version, so that everything I encrypted in Windows can still be accessed in Linux.
I stick to raster graphics exclusively. I know Wikimedia makes heavy use of SVG vector graphics, but they usually have raster forms of the same images available for download as well, so I use those. I don't have any software that will view vector formats of convert the vector formats to raster formats, so I just download the raster forms to begin with.
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RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - Ninurta - 07-25-2025
(07-24-2025, 11:32 PM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: ...
IMAGES: About the same as Ninurta. For photos where you have the origin source, archivist perfectionists (and all gov't libraries & most Univer libraries) usually go with .TIFF (for lossless image archiving) as it supports the CMYK color model for printing. I rarely ever use TIFF and the downside is you need massive amounts of storage space that make it cost prohibitive. Go with PNG.
BMP is bloated proprietary crap and never had a good use for it. Might as well use PNG for lossless image compression with less space consuming plus it is an established open file format, developed by the PNG Working Group.
I had forgotten about TIFFs, and shouldn't have. I've made extensive use of TIFF ("Tagged Image File format") for mapping applications, but don't make many maps any more.
The USGS puts out it's topographic maps exclusively in GeoTIFF and GeoPDF files these days. The beauty of that format for that use is that geographic coordinates and orientation can be embedded in it, making manipulation and combination easier. For example, I could download a DEM "Digital Elevation Model") for 3 dimensional relief - used mostly for map shading purposes and oblique views of an area of interest - and then directly overlay a USGS topographic map onto that surface for more complete visualizations of points of interest.
The Geo PDF files are arranged in layers, so you can turn various layers in them on or off to improve readability and reduce clutter on a map. There is also software available that will output a GeoTIFF from the selected layers of a GeoPDF so you can create your own GeoTIFFs using just the information sets you need and leaving out any other clutter.
I used to use software that could read and manipulate DEM files, Census Bureau TIGER data, and GeoTiffs, but it was a Windows-only program, so I had to stop using it when I migrated to Linux. Thee are Linux programs available (like GRASS), but they seem to be unnecessarily overly complicated and difficult to use, so I don't so much map making any more, and had forgotten about the TIFF format.
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RE: What Document Files Do You Use? - Ninurta - 07-25-2025
(Yesterday, 08:12 AM)F2d5thCav Wrote:Like Ninurta, I use LibreOffice (the modern version of Open Office). As good as MS Office and free. Includes a nice drawing package.
For graphics, I also think PNG is good, but JPG is also okay for some images that don't suffer much from compression.
PDF is useful as is epub.
"Free and full featured" was a big draw that brought me to Open Office. I also liked that I could save a document as a PDF with just a single push of a button. For example, the book I wrote about the Faltskog/Hershel hoax perpetrated at ATS was written in Open Office. I saved one version for myself as an .ODT file, and then pushed the button to create a PDF file for distribution.
Since all the features and controls are in different places, creating spreadsheets had a learning curve when I migrated away from MS Office, but I eventually got the hang of that, too. I had to create spreadsheets for work at the last job I worked, but found them useful for other applications as well, so I brought the tech home with me, then retained it when I migrated to Linux. I mostly use them for genealogical applications these days.
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