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The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-21-2024
I have a question for the Rogues during this spooky Halloween season, "Where do the classic horror story monsters like vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstein's monster, et al, come from?"
What is the basis of the classic old haunted house or castle, one that is usually in ruins, that is inhabited by some old eccentric aristocrat from some European family bloodline? Or some mad scientist, that one is pretty classic. I am speaking of Gothic Horror of course, as opposed to slasher or other types of stories.
Just fishing around for opinions on this subject, one I have of my own.
Let's hear what you got Rogues, Inquiring minds want to know.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - MrJesterium - 10-22-2024
(10-21-2024, 10:57 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I have a question for the Rogues during this spooky Halloween season, "Where do the classic horror story monsters like vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstein's monster, et al, come from?"Concerning vampires, I believe most modern embellishments originated with Bram Stoker, except impaling their hearts was actually a thing! "The Russians say that, when driving a stake into the body of a vampire, this must be done by one single blow, as a second blow will reanimate the corpse." If you wanted to get to the heart of the matter, it'd be best to study Slavic folklore, in which vampires merely became inanimate when exposed to sunlight and also hearing a cockerel.
What is the basis of the classic old haunted house or castle, one that is usually in ruins, that is inhabited by some old eccentric aristocrat from some European family bloodline? Or some mad scientist, that one is pretty classic. I am speaking of Gothic Horror of course, as opposed to slasher or other types of stories.
Just fishing around for opinions on this subject, one I have of my own.
Let's hear what you got Rogues, Inquiring minds want to know.
Interesting facts:
"If the horse refused to pass over any grave, even in spite of repeated blows, that grave was believed to shelter a vampire."
"Horses will also often betray great uneasiness in passing over places where a body has been buried."
"No dog or cat must be allowed to leap over the corpse or enter the room."
"In some places the jumping of a boy over the corpse is considered as fatal as that of a cat."
As a rare phenomenon, Dr. Z. J. Pierart makes a strong case for their actual existence. They were prevalent in eastern Europe, which had favorable conditions for their return from the grave, they were somehow able to roam around outside their body after dying, until their corpse was exhumed and burnt. The only reliable way to stop them from appearing is to burn the corpse.
Vampires were also related to suicide cases. "In Scotland it is still thought that the body of a suicide will not fall to dust until the time when he should have died in the order of nature." Recently, I was reading up on the sayings of the Romanov healer Philippe Nizier, he claimed, "Les suicidés souffrent le temps qu’aurait duré leur vie normale." (Suicide victims suffer for as long as their normal lives would have lasted.)
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-22-2024
(10-22-2024, 07:19 AM)MrJesterium Wrote:(10-21-2024, 10:57 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I have a question for the Rogues during this spooky Halloween season, "Where do the classic horror story monsters like vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstein's monster, et al, come from?"Concerning vampires, I believe most modern embellishments originated with Bram Stoker, except impaling their hearts was actually a thing! "The Russians say that, when driving a stake into the body of a vampire, this must be done by one single blow, as a second blow will reanimate the corpse." If you wanted to get to the heart of the matter, it'd be best to study Slavic folklore, in which vampires merely became inanimate when exposed to sunlight and also hearing a cockerel.
What is the basis of the classic old haunted house or castle, one that is usually in ruins, that is inhabited by some old eccentric aristocrat from some European family bloodline? Or some mad scientist, that one is pretty classic. I am speaking of Gothic Horror of course, as opposed to slasher or other types of stories.
Just fishing around for opinions on this subject, one I have of my own.
Let's hear what you got Rogues, Inquiring minds want to know.
Interesting facts:
"If the horse refused to pass over any grave, even in spite of repeated blows, that grave was believed to shelter a vampire."
"Horses will also often betray great uneasiness in passing over places where a body has been buried."
"No dog or cat must be allowed to leap over the corpse or enter the room."
"In some places the jumping of a boy over the corpse is considered as fatal as that of a cat."
As a rare phenomenon, Dr. Z. J. Pierart makes a strong case for their actual existence. They were prevalent in eastern Europe, which had favorable conditions for their return from the grave, they were somehow able to roam around outside their body after dying, until their corpse was exhumed and burnt. The only reliable way to stop them from appearing is to burn the corpse.
Vampires were also related to suicide cases. "In Scotland it is still thought that the body of a suicide will not fall to dust until the time when he should have died in the order of nature." Recently, I was reading up on the sayings of the Romanov healer Philippe Nizier, he claimed, "Les suicidés souffrent le temps qu’aurait duré leur vie normale." (Suicide victims suffer for as long as their normal lives would have lasted.)
The classic vampire from Eastern Europe, Bram Stoker's Dracula. A living dead count that died some three hundred years previously and now survives as the undead by feeding on the blood of innocent victims. He resides in a run-down castle and sleeps in a coffin during the daylight. This story, a major classic, is getting close to what I have been thinking about in regards to where these horror stories actually come from.
These things originate from old legends and tales obviously, but where did those stories come from and what motivated their creation? There is a major connection to all these stories and I'm curious if anyone here will come to the same conclusions I have.
Let me mention Frankenstein's monster. Set in the early 1800s, a mad scientist reanimates a human corpse that goes on the nut and can't be stopped. How does this relate to Dracula, the Wolfman, and the rest of these characters? An older legend of course (The Golem of Prague) and we have the added theme of a man of science using his knowledge to act out against God and nature. Where and when have we heard this type of story before? All these Gothic Horror stories are related and I'm hoping to not have to lead anyone to my conclusion, but allow them to come to the same naturally. What I'm thinking is not that far out there, it's pretty obvious actually. This paragraph is a huge clue about where I'm headed with this.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - FlickerOfLight - 10-22-2024
The basis for Bram Strokers Dracula came from Vladimir "the implarer, and where the majority of that lore comes from.
There are also some take aways from people who actually do drink blood.
I once watched a documentary, that I can't quite remember which once, or exactly what area they were talking about, but tge documentary was about exactly the question from the OP. This documentary stated that back before people really knew about medical science, we'll say maybe back in the 1500's, and these people had to move a grave site. They had to dig bodies up, and move them. As they were moving bodies, and looking in coffins, they saw how the body decomposes. Gasses emitting, bodies sitting up, or making God awful shrieks from the escaping gasses while the bodies are being moved; as well as the grotesque appearance. All of this freaked these people so bad, that they had nightmares/terrors from the site of these bodies. Our zombie lore traces bak to this.
All throughout history there have been all kinds of burial rituals, concerning the dead coming back to life, or the passage into the next real/life/heaven etc. They dig up bodies with chain's wrapped around necks, or cinder blocks piled up on top of bodies, to keep these people from returning from the dead.
There were many rituals like this for burying witches. So that they wouldn't "return."
Tales of monsters and things that go bump in the night are a part of every culture across history.
The native Americans had a lot of neat and spooky tales of demons evil spirits and crypto monsters.
Hollywood has cashed in on a lot of this, and is why things have evolved into what we know of today.
But, scary, spooky, ghosts goblins, monsters and all tha is supernatural is as old as time itself.
Have a Happy Halloween Rogue-Nation.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-22-2024
Very close Flicker, very close. You're circling the target now. No need to go so far back to the primordial though.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - FlickerOfLight - 10-22-2024
Lol
I believe Frankenstein was all from Mary Shelly's imagination, and from her book.
As far as Werewolves go:
The earliest surviving example of man-to-wolf transformation is found in The Epic of Gilgamesh from around 2,100 BC.
lycanthropy: the ability to shift into a wolf. (apparently this was a thing long ago. )
The persecution of werewolves and the associated folklore is an integral part of the "witch-hunt" phenomenon, albeit a marginal one, accusations of lycanthropy being involved in only a small fraction of witchcraft trials.[e] During the early period, accusations of lycanthropy (transformation into a wolf) were mixed with accusations of wolf-riding or wolf-charming. The case of Peter Stumpp (1589) led to a significant peak in both interest in and persecution of supposed werewolves, primarily in French-speaking and German-speaking Europe. The phenomenon persisted longest in Bavaria and Austria, with persecution of wolf-charmers recorded until well after 1650, the final cases taking place in the early 18th century in Carinthia and Styria
All the stories are pretty old. Frankenstein being one of the newest monsters when it comes to the ones mentioned. Also one of the greatest classic horror films of all time. Imo
(10-22-2024, 11:59 AM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote:(10-22-2024, 07:19 AM)MrJesterium Wrote:(10-21-2024, 10:57 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I have a question for the Rogues during this spooky Halloween season, "Where do the classic horror story monsters like vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstein's monster, et al, come from?"Concerning vampires, I believe most modern embellishments originated with Bram Stoker, except impaling their hearts was actually a thing! "The Russians say that, when driving a stake into the body of a vampire, this must be done by one single blow, as a second blow will reanimate the corpse." If you wanted to get to the heart of the matter, it'd be best to study Slavic folklore, in which vampires merely became inanimate when exposed to sunlight and also hearing a cockerel.
What is the basis of the classic old haunted house or castle, one that is usually in ruins, that is inhabited by some old eccentric aristocrat from some European family bloodline? Or some mad scientist, that one is pretty classic. I am speaking of Gothic Horror of course, as opposed to slasher or other types of stories.
Just fishing around for opinions on this subject, one I have of my own.
Let's hear what you got Rogues, Inquiring minds want to know.
Interesting facts:
"If the horse refused to pass over any grave, even in spite of repeated blows, that grave was believed to shelter a vampire."
"Horses will also often betray great uneasiness in passing over places where a body has been buried."
"No dog or cat must be allowed to leap over the corpse or enter the room."
"In some places the jumping of a boy over the corpse is considered as fatal as that of a cat."
As a rare phenomenon, Dr. Z. J. Pierart makes a strong case for their actual existence. They were prevalent in eastern Europe, which had favorable conditions for their return from the grave, they were somehow able to roam around outside their body after dying, until their corpse was exhumed and burnt. The only reliable way to stop them from appearing is to burn the corpse.
Vampires were also related to suicide cases. "In Scotland it is still thought that the body of a suicide will not fall to dust until the time when he should have died in the order of nature." Recently, I was reading up on the sayings of the Romanov healer Philippe Nizier, he claimed, "Les suicidés souffrent le temps qu’aurait duré leur vie normale." (Suicide victims suffer for as long as their normal lives would have lasted.)
The classic vampire from Eastern Europe, Bram Stoker's Dracula. A living dead count that died some three hundred years previously and now survives as the undead by feeding on the blood of innocent victims. He resides in a run-down castle and sleeps in a coffin during the daylight. This story, a major classic, is getting close to what I have been thinking about in regards to where these horror stories actually come from.
These things originate from old legends and tales obviously, but where did those stories come from and what motivated their creation? There is a major connection to all these stories and I'm curious if anyone here will come to the same conclusions I have.
Let me mention Frankenstein's monster. Set in the early 1800s, a mad scientist reanimates a human corpse that goes on the nut and can't be stopped. How does this relate to Dracula, the Wolfman, and the rest of these characters? An older legend of course (The Golem of Prague) and we have the added theme of a man of science using his knowledge to act out against God and nature. Where and when have we heard this type of story before? All these Gothic Horror stories are related and I'm hoping to not have to lead anyone to my conclusion, but allow them to come to the same naturally. What I'm thinking is not that far out there, it's pretty obvious actually. This paragraph is a huge clue about where I'm headed with this.
Interesting...
Illuminati¿
In films there's a theory that a lot of the monsters in movies are actually "them" portraying themselves; or something to that effect.
Interested to see where you were going with that, though. I took a swing in the dark at it.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Ninurta - 10-23-2024
(10-21-2024, 10:57 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I have a question for the Rogues during this spooky Halloween season, "Where do the classic horror story monsters like vampires, werewolves, and Frankenstein's monster, et al, come from?"
What is the basis of the classic old haunted house or castle, one that is usually in ruins, that is inhabited by some old eccentric aristocrat from some European family bloodline? Or some mad scientist, that one is pretty classic. I am speaking of Gothic Horror of course, as opposed to slasher or other types of stories.
Just fishing around for opinions on this subject, one I have of my own.
Let's hear what you got Rogues, Inquiring minds want to know.
The 19th and early 20th century versions of vampires, Frankenstein, mummy, and wolfman all go back, way back, to early Bronze Age, Chalcolithic, Neolithic, or probably even before archetypes: the "revenant" and "shapeshifters".. However, every culture they are passed on to, or pass through, puts it's own stamp on the basic types, so that what we have today bears only a passing resemblance.
The "revenant" archetype is what spawned vampires, Frankenstein's Monster, and the mummy. What we think of today as the classic vampire passed through the Transylvania area of Romania, and got mixed in with Vlad the Impaler by Bram Stoker. He gave a uniquely Western European flavor to raw materials that started out as eastern European.
Ditto the decrepit haunted castle - Stoker got that from a couple of Vlad Dracul's castles that are still in existence, but now abandoned, such as the one at Poenari. As a matter of fact, the Poenari castle is still reported to be haunted by locals, who report such things as floating orbs around it. Stoker took the castle, the notion of vampires being European nobility, and even the name "Dracula" all from Vlad Dracul, Vlad the Impaler, and worked the story over into a western European motif as applied to the ancient revenant archetype.
Frankenstein's Monster and the Mad Scientist came from Germany via the pen of Mary Shelley in the early 19th century. She spun up a tale that was new concerning the ancient revenant archetype in the case of the monster, and a whole new mad scientist motif in the case of Dr Frankenstein who created the monster.
The revenant archetype is, at it's most basic, just a corpse returned from the dead. All of the rest are embellishments to personalize the revenant to the culture at hand. While the "mad scientist" might appear to be an entirely new wrinkle, I personally think it's an extension or modification of the old alchemist and before that wizard motifs.
The Wolfman comes from Romania just as Dracula does, but it was transmitted from the shape-shifter archetype via the lens of Chalcolithic proto-Celtic peoples. Most cultures around the world have equivalents that have been personalized to their own culture, from the Scandanavian Berserkers and Ulfhednar to the Americas and the Native American shape-shifters like skin walkers and owl-witches.
Nowadays all of thee monsters are undergoing yet another American-inspired transformation, probably spurred by teenage girly emo culture. Things like vampires that sparkle in the sunlight - or can even get into the sunlight without bursting into flame and a puff of smoke are as alien to classic vampires as classic vamppres are to the Medieval vampires who had bricks and rock stuffed into their mouths to neutralize them found in places as far apart as Italy and Ireland.
All of these monsters and more really came into their own as cinematic tropes during the mid-20th century probably as escape mechanisms to take folks' minds off the very real dangers of the modern world, like the threat of nuclear destruction. Now they seem to be morphing into an escape mechanism for teenage girls to escape the drudgery of having to go to school and learning to read and write and cipher. My, how the times do change!
And now, in honor of the new-style wussified vampires, which is currently bringing them into line with our new, kinder, gentler, far more wussified society, I leave you with:
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-23-2024
Ninurta, so, so close to my thinking, and yet you dance around my conclusions that I have yet to share. You should be able to see the basics like I do as you are right on top of it.
You go too far back to the earliest origins and are too broad as I was only talking about Gothic Horror, not the origins of ancient tales of the Stone Age primitives of any place or time. Forget about going so far back or being too much in the now. I know you guys can get there, it is so obvious what inspired this genre.
Damn it, I feel it is necessary to put out another clue to my line of thinking on this subject.
Zombies, although an African-based myth involving Voodoo magic, are popularly considered dead corpses roaming around, killing and then eating the flesh of living humans who become living dead zombies themselves. How does this tie in with a blood-sucking count in Transylvania? Or lycanthropy in France and Germany or the Golem of Prague? Think broadly, there is one thing that was caused by several major events in European history that spawned these monsters.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - p358 - 10-23-2024
I assume you do not want to discuss Jesus who returned from the dead?
Jesus could also bring others back from the dead.
Do we include him in out musings?
P
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-23-2024
(10-23-2024, 05:30 AM)p358 Wrote: I assume you do not want to discuss Jesus who returned from the dead?
Jesus could also bring others back from the dead.
Do we include him in out musings?
P
"Sure, Why not?"
We have the movie Plan 9 from Outer Space, a 1957 American science fiction horror film. IMO, the plot is loosely based on the 2nd coming and the "dead shall rise in Christ" quote in 1 Thessalonians. With what I have come up with, the church and clergy are featured prominently in my theory.
ETA: I am ignoring the science fiction aspect as an early post-modern era twist to an older story.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - FlickerOfLight - 10-23-2024
(10-22-2024, 05:38 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: Very close Flicker, very close. You're circling the target now. No need to go so far back to the primordial though.
Ive actually been pondering on this since last night.
I'm interested to see the connection you've made, and what it is you're trying to relate to us with this.
I've re-examined your OP, as well as your hints within.
One question: maybe I'm shooting too far, again, but...
Is this Biblical in nature, of any sort?
(I'm probably thinking too far back again)
Or is it simply, a "TPTB" reference with these monsters. (That's what I had always believed. That these are just dramatized stories about truly evil people; in some form or fashion)
I dig this riddle aspect.
We need another clue.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-23-2024
Flicker,
Quote:One question: maybe I'm shooting too far, again, but...
Is this Biblical in nature, of any sort?
(I'm probably thinking too far back again)
Or is it simply, a "TPTB" reference with these monsters. (That's what I had always believed. That these are just dramatized stories about truly evil people; in some form or fashion)
I'd say that what I am thinking of is truly apocalyptic and related to the four horsemen. Also, the powers that be, the evil ones, yes, they are absolutely involved.
You guys are so close and have contributed to my theories about this, I want to present my ideas, but I will wait for a bit longer.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - FlickerOfLight - 10-24-2024
(10-23-2024, 07:38 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: Flicker,
Quote:One question: maybe I'm shooting too far, again, but...
Is this Biblical in nature, of any sort?
(I'm probably thinking too far back again)
Or is it simply, a "TPTB" reference with these monsters. (That's what I had always believed. That these are just dramatized stories about truly evil people; in some form or fashion)
I'd say that what I am thinking of is truly apocalyptic and related to the four horsemen. Also, the powers that be, the evil ones, yes, they are absolutely involved.
You guys are so close and have contributed to my theories about this, I want to present my ideas, but I will wait for a bit longer.
Looking forward to it.
I see these characters, and the way they are written in a way so that we will always pity the "monster." That, and or idolize them.
Sounds like you've got something in mind with some depth.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-24-2024
I am writing an essay on this subject, one I intend to put on my website. Many years ago I came to the conclusion that I was throwing away my creative writing projects on boards like ATS. I was motivated by copyright/authorship issues plus my writing was disappearing into the black hole of old threads and posts after about a week.
With that said, I will be finishing the essay soon and will provide clues and hints until then. I will have this finished on the weekend, in time for Halloween, so not much longer to wait and I will put an outline here.
Here is another hint: What major events occurred in Europe around the time the classic Gothic Horror stories are based on that share the main story elements? These elements include evil rulers engaged in cruel and unnatural acts including torture, and endless wars, along with acts of God including pestilence, famine, and massive death.
ETA: Embarrassing how simple my idea is and likely well-studied if I did some deeper research.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-25-2024
I've got the main elements of my essay in order. I just have to make the intro and the conclusion and also make sure I follow the basic format. Trim it down to a certain word number, I'm thinking around 1,000 words. Perhaps I'll average the number of words in my other essays and come up with a number.
The final editing will get done tonight. I'll post the introductory paragraphs and a link. Then you guys can can add your thoughts that could lead to me some more editing, even a better thesis statement. I'll add a credit to Rogue Nation on my website for your input when I'm through editing it.
Until then, thanks for your help guys.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - MrJesterium - 10-25-2024
(10-22-2024, 11:59 AM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: What I'm thinking is not that far out there, it's pretty obvious actually. This paragraph is a huge clue about where I'm headed with this.These are some great questions. I just wish I had more time to mull over the subject. I've been too busy to post on forums lately. So I just zeroed in on the aspect that interested me most, which was vampires. I haven't read up on the origins of werewolves or Golem of Prague, and I only just learned about the urban legend of Jacques St. Germain. But on the bright side, I've been reading up on Saint Germain for the whole month of October. The origin of the myth that he lived for centuries was due to:
-him not revealing much about himself to outsiders, people knew practically nothing about him and invented his motives
-two impersonators (one of them paid by malevolent persons) making exaggerated claims about his longevity
-unfounded rumours about an elixir he never claimed to possess, though he was like a physician
-the fact that he really did live a long youthful life thanks to his strict ascetic life, though he still died
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-26-2024
I'm just about ready to put my essay online, so I'm ready to share this part near the beginning.
Quote:Classic Gothic Horror stories include the following elements.
A closer examination of the stories includes the following basic elements.
⦁ Myths and legends from medieval Europe that involved evil people and occult practices.
⦁ An evil character of European nobility, usually a count or baron descended from the feudal age.
⦁ The story is often set in the 18th or 19th century.
⦁ The location is an old castle or manor in disrepair with a village of superstitious "peasants" nearby.
⦁ The activities of the nobles usually involve occult practices or fringe science considered evil.
⦁ Death is prominently displayed in characters such as "Dracula" and "Frankenstein's Monster".
Given where my spooky Halloween thoughts took me, I dug deeper into this subject. I concluded that classic Gothic horror stories are based on the history of the Late Medieval Period in Europe between 1300 and 1500. These stories later developed into their present form during the fall of the European feudal system in the mid-1800s.
Chronological Overview
The Late Middle Ages (or Renaissance) began in 1300 and ended around 1500 with the end of the Feudal Age beginning after 1500 and concluding by the mid-1800s. Below is a chronology of major events during these periods.
⦁ Pope Clement V disbanded the Knights Templar in 1312.
⦁ The Black Death or bubonic plague peaked around 1350.
⦁ The Hundred Years' War lasted from 1337 to 1453.
⦁ French military leader Gilles de Rais mid-1400s.
⦁ Vlad the Impaler aka "Count Dracula" lived in the mid-1400s.
⦁ The Spanish Inquisition was established in 1478 and formally abolished in 1834.
⦁ The Countess "Dracula" Elizabeth Báthory of Hungary incident happened in the early 1500s.
⦁ End of feudalism 1500–1800s. Feudalism continued in Central and Eastern Europe until the 1850s.
. . . and this quote a little further along in the essay . . .
Quote:Gothic Horror monsters like Dracula and the Wolfman were born out of medieval lore, however, the heroes and some monsters are from the 1800s and even other cultures and times. It can be pointed out that monsters including Frankenstein's monster, zombies, and the mummy don't fit into medieval European history.
Although Frankenstein is not part of medieval European history, the story can be traced to the Golem of Prague legend from the late 1500s in Eastern Europe. Zombies from Haitian folklore were first recorded in 1819 in "A History of Brazil" by poet Robert Southey. "Egyptomania" was a period of intense interest in ancient Egypt during the nineteenth century making mummies a big craze. So, if not directly traced back to medieval Europe, all these Gothic Horror monsters are related to the 19th century at the end of the feudal age.
I'll include a link to the complete essay once I code the pages and get them on the website.
I have the essay down to around 900 words. I could flesh it out a little and should edit it according to the manual of style so I don't screw up topic sentences or forget supporting paragraphs or leave off a conclusion, all that English teacher stuff. I also need to look over my sources to provide links for the information, even look for better sources than websites like Wikipedia (or what have you).
Here is a link from the NY Public Library that talks about the literature and lists the most famous books from the 1800s.
A Brief History of Gothic Horror
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - F2d5thCav - 10-26-2024
@MSB
"Although Frankenstein is not part of medieval European history"
Yeah, but there was that whole bizarre bit with Homunculi, trying to kick start artificial human-like life.
A good read is Vallée's "Passport to Magonia", which covers stories of medieval abductions by monsters, although his look is more of a tying of those events to modern UFO/entity encounters.
Cheers
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - Michigan Swamp Buck - 10-27-2024
(10-26-2024, 05:35 PM)F2d5thCav Wrote: @MSB
"Although Frankenstein is not part of medieval European history"
Yeah, but there was that whole bizarre bit with Homunculi, trying to kick start artificial human-like life.
A good read is Vallée's "Passport to Magonia", which covers stories of medieval abductions by monsters, although his look is more of a tying of those events to modern UFO/entity encounters.
Cheers
Here is what Wiki says about the homunculus
Quote:. . . Popularized in sixteenth-century alchemy and nineteenth-century fiction, it has historically referred to the creation of a miniature, fully formed human.
. . . During medieval and early modern times, it was thought that homunculus, an artificial humanlike being, could be created through alchemy.[1] The homunculus first appears by name in alchemical writings attributed to Paracelsus (1493–1541).
The similarities are there, science creating life more or less, and the era is perfect. If it wasn't for the fact that humunculi are very small humanoids and Frankenstein's monster was very large, I'd say that is the origin of Franky. It may have contributed to the story though, I'll include a reference to it.
RE: The Origin of Spooky Halloween Monsters - FlickerOfLight - 10-30-2024
Well, it's almost that time. Halloween eve.
I've had this on my mind off and on for ya. I've put together every connection I could come up with, but don't think I'm even close to what you're shooting for Herr.
Time, location, some historical events, like plagues, as well as rulers of the time, are the only solid connections I've come up with.
I do remember hearing something long ago about how Mary Shelly's Frankenstein's monster character was actually a metaphor for something twisted, but I can't remember what it was.
I also picked up a new tidbit from watching a few vampire movies recently. I watched Bram Strokers Dracula, and noticed something i hadn't picked up on before. Count Dracula was a part of something called "The Order of the Dragon."
I watched Fright Night, the 2011 remake, the other night (not near as good as the original) and noticed the vampire character had a signet ring on, and they kept showing this ring repeatedly. After pausing the movie just right, and then zooming in, I noticed that ring had something like a dragon on it, but looked like something the rings freemasons wear. I wondered if it was some reference to that vampire being part of a secret society as well. This would mean vampires are members of a secret order.
Bram Strokers Dracula character was even something like a Knights Templar, before he became the undead. He was "protecting the church" before his true love dies by suicide, and becomes the undead. He cursed God, denounces his faith, drinks blood, and becomes an immortal blood sucking vampire.
I wonder if any of that will play into your thesis.
Inquiring minds are hoping you lay out something we can chew on for a bit. You've got a good build up going.
Drum roll, please...
Cheers