(09-18-2024, 01:45 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I feel the need to share this experience I've been having and that this was the best place to share it first and give it a test run.

Since July, I've been dealing with the family estate that belonged to my mother and her husband. Other than being a trustee for a trust the situation of cleaning out a house full of the possessions of two lifetimes is much the same as any other estate. My step-sister is the other trustee and we decided to run the estate sales on our own.

Of course, rummaging through the family's belongings that accumulated since at least the 1970s was an emotional experience and one that shed light on many things over the years, things that began to make me question the results of these two lifetimes.

My mother did very well and her last husband came into the relationship with just a suitcase, so I imagine that was the main reason the trust was created. The trust allowed them to live comfortably in their later years and enabled their hoarding of possessions to progress into a serious problem, esp. after Mom died and her husband had nothing better to do than collect things.

They had similar interests and tastes in antiques and Native American culture and they both had the hoarding trait that had them collecting things and then storing most of it where ever they could. It was total mental illness by the time Dad passed away and an unbelievable task that they have drawn me into from beyond the grave.

I had a few emotional break downs while working the estate and began to come to grips with the spiritual side of all this. This came to a head recently when I finally cleaned out the attic where the Christmas stuff was stored. "Here's your Merry Christmas in hell" was basically what I was saying while I tossed the shit down the folding attic stairs on to the floor below.

Once I calmed down, I began to think about a few Bible verses that applied to the situation. Now that I'm back at home for awhile, I did some research and have come to the conclusion that there is no place in heaven for hoarders. So that only leaves one other place in the afterlife.

Below is my research for you to decide where hoarders end up.

Hoarding and Sin

The most frightening and damning verses are from James who makes it pretty clear what will happen to hoarders once they pass away.

James 5:1-5 King James Bible

(1) Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. (2) Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. (3) Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. (4) Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. (5) Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

In the hereafter, hoarders will weep and wail in misery, fire will eat their flesh, they will be slaughtered, and they will have done it all to themselves during their lives.

1 Corinthians condemns the greedy behavior inherent in hoarding by grouping it with other serious sins (as covetousness) resulting in not making it into heaven, which will only leave you one other place in the afterlife.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 King James Bible

(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Here Matthew simplifies James's words, elaborates a little, and gives the reader the way back to the Lord.

Matthew 6:19-21 King James Bible

(19) Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: (20) But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: (21) "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matthew 6:24-25 King James Bible

(24) No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (25) Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Matthew relates this story about the Lord to illustrate his teachings on hoarding treasure.

Matthew 19:21-25 King James Version
(21)  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (22)  But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. (23)  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. (24)  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (25)  When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Luke's warning and parable also illustrate the sinfullness of hoarding. The first and last quotes from Luke presented here are enough without the parable in between.

Luke 12:15-21 King James Bible

(15) And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. (16) And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: (17) And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? (18) And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. (19) And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. (20) But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? (21) So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

More warnings from Luke on true riches versus Mammon followed up with John who sums it all up with one sentence.

Luke 16:10-12 King James Bible

(10) He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. (11) If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? (12) And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

1 John 2:15 King James Bible

(15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Timothy's warnings and advice about turning away from acquiring riches.

1 Timothy 6:8-11King James Bible

(8) And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. (9) But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. (10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (11) But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

To sum it up, hoarding to the degree which I found it is related to the sins of coveting, greed, idolatry, along with a couple of others. Then to add to it, there was this obsession with primitive Native cultures and my Mother's choice of the Mormon religion at the end. Not good if you know and study the Bible and have real faith.

(09-18-2024, 01:45 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I feel the need to share this experience I've been having and that this was the best place to share it first and give it a test run.

Since July, I've been dealing with the family estate that belonged to my mother and her husband. Other than being a trustee for a trust the situation of cleaning out a house full of the possessions of two lifetimes is much the same as any other estate. My step-sister is the other trustee and we decided to run the estate sales on our own.

Of course, rummaging through the family's belongings that accumulated since at least the 1970s was an emotional experience and one that shed light on many things over the years, things that began to make me question the results of these two lifetimes.

My mother did very well and her last husband came into the relationship with just a suitcase, so I imagine that was the main reason the trust was created. The trust allowed them to live comfortably in their later years and enabled their hoarding of possessions to progress into a serious problem, esp. after Mom died and her husband had nothing better to do than collect things.

They had similar interests and tastes in antiques and Native American culture and they both had the hoarding trait that had them collecting things and then storing most of it where ever they could. It was total mental illness by the time Dad passed away and an unbelievable task that they have drawn me into from beyond the grave.

I had a few emotional break downs while working the estate and began to come to grips with the spiritual side of all this. This came to a head recently when I finally cleaned out the attic where the Christmas stuff was stored. "Here's your Merry Christmas in hell" was basically what I was saying while I tossed the shit down the folding attic stairs on to the floor below.

Once I calmed down, I began to think about a few Bible verses that applied to the situation. Now that I'm back at home for awhile, I did some research and have come to the conclusion that there is no place in heaven for hoarders. So that only leaves one other place in the afterlife.

Below is my research for you to decide where hoarders end up.

Hoarding and Sin

The most frightening and damning verses are from James who makes it pretty clear what will happen to hoarders once they pass away.

James 5:1-5 King James Bible

(1) Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. (2) Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. (3) Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. (4) Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. (5) Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.

In the hereafter, hoarders will weep and wail in misery, fire will eat their flesh, they will be slaughtered, and they will have done it all to themselves during their lives.

1 Corinthians condemns the greedy behavior inherent in hoarding by grouping it with other serious sins (as covetousness) resulting in not making it into heaven, which will only leave you one other place in the afterlife.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 King James Bible

(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Here Matthew simplifies James's words, elaborates a little, and gives the reader the way back to the Lord.

Matthew 6:19-21 King James Bible

(19) Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: (20) But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: (21) "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matthew 6:24-25 King James Bible

(24) No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (25) Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

Matthew relates this story about the Lord to illustrate his teachings on hoarding treasure.

Matthew 19:21-25 King James Version
(21)  Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (22)  But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. (23)  Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. (24)  And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (25)  When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Luke's warning and parable also illustrate the sinfullness of hoarding. The first and last quotes from Luke presented here are enough without the parable in between.

Luke 12:15-21 King James Bible

(15) And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. (16) And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully: (17) And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits? (18) And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. (19) And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. (20) But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? (21) So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

More warnings from Luke on true riches versus Mammon followed up with John who sums it all up with one sentence.

Luke 16:10-12 King James Bible

(10) He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. (11) If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? (12) And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

1 John 2:15 King James Bible

(15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Timothy's warnings and advice about turning away from acquiring riches.

1 Timothy 6:8-11King James Bible

(8) And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. (9) But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. (10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. (11) But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

To sum it up, hoarding to the degree which I found it is related to the sins of coveting, greed, idolatry, along with a couple of others. Then to add to it, there was this obsession with primitive Native cultures and my Mother's choice of the Mormon religion at the end. Not good if you know and study the Bible and have real faith.

(09-19-2024, 03:00 AM)Infolurker Wrote: I guess I am kind of a hoarder... of useful things.

I have been mylar'ing up buckets of food off and on for 15 years. The buckets are stacking up. I hoard other food as well and useful "tools".

I am not sure if disaster preparation is specifically classified as hoarding unless you are clearing the grocery store during a crisis. I have been storing food over time so I don't have to do that.

(09-19-2024, 01:06 AM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: I feel like if I wanted to liken hoarding to a sin my pick would be sloth, but I'm no expert. It just seems like hoarders accumulate all of these things with all of these ideas and plans but then are too lazy to implement them. Much easier to accumulate things and let them take over space than to actually do something with them or even organize them and stow them away neatly. 

I have to watch myself as I tend to hoard crafting and gardening supplies because I know that eventually I will have time and a use for them- and I absolutely do- but sometimes it will be a while before I get around to a particular project and if I'm not careful I find areas being overtaken by materials for future projects. Limited space makes it a bigger problem than it should be but I try my darnedest to keep it under control.