(08-23-2024, 10:48 AM)Ninurta Wrote: 12 pounds of rifle is just too much rifle. You've already got around 80 pounds of ruck on your back, and I think most of the vests these days carry around 10 magazines, 30 rounds apiece. I dunno what this 13 dollar round weighs, but 300 of them (plus the 30 already in your rifle) have got to weigh plenty. Hell, the MOLLE rig I have here weighs about 25 pounds all by itself, empty. No need to add extra unnecessary weight to a load like that.

The rifle itself looks to me like a Buck-Rogers-ized AR anyhow. No excuse for that extra weight. What the hell does the average trooper need with a sound suppressor? That's just another pound of useless weight for them to carry. They'll eventually have to give each trooper his own robot too, in order to carry all the useless crap they insist has to be carried.

Personally, I think if they went back to the old M16A1 with a 12 inch rifling twist and M193 ball ammo, they'd be good to go. They've been screwing with the AR platform for 40 years now trying to make it "more lethal", and have only succeeded in making it LESS lethal... so now they have to go with this new crap? Just wait until they get done making it "more lethal" too.

Procurement and testing very often runs a shit-show all it's own. I have an idea - teach troopers to hit their target with whatever they happen to have to hand instead of saddling them with even more junk that they don't need... fanciest gun in the world ain't gonna do you any good at all if you have a habit of shooting over their heads instead of into their heads. On the other hand, a Sears Special will do the trick if you drop some lead in their head from it.

By teach them to hit their target" I mean just that. I think it's around 10% or 15% of soldiers that will actually shoot to kill. The rest just shoot to scare. There is a world of difference between shooting a paper target on the range and shooting at a living, breathing one trying to shoot you right back. People get jittery about that, which IMO is an issue that could be addressed in training.

My Dear Old Dad had a system for training - "Here's five shells. that's all ya get. Either bring back all 5, or enough pieces game to account for the missing shells. if ya don't, next time you only get 3. You ain't wasting all MY ammo!"

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(09-18-2024, 07:41 AM)727Sky Wrote: The Army's new XM-7 rifle which shoots bullets that cost somewhere between 12 to 15+ dollars per round is actually receiving good feed back from the troops. Good solid Optics and a bullet able to penetrate light armored vehicles and body armor seems to be a win win. Of course the positive feed back is mostly from approved blogs and articles.

(09-19-2024, 10:39 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(09-18-2024, 07:41 AM)727Sky Wrote: The Army's new XM-7 rifle which shoots bullets that cost somewhere between 12 to 15+ dollars per round is actually receiving good feed back from the troops. Good solid Optics and a bullet able to penetrate light armored vehicles and body armor seems to be a win win. Of course the positive feed back is mostly from approved blogs and articles.

Well that video was just too cute by half! I remember seeing the same claims made about the M16. For example, I recall seeing a demonstration where a cinder block wall was reduced to rubble using only a stock M16A1 and the old M193 ball ammo.

Damn near doubling the weight of your weapon while simultaneously halving the amount of ammo you can carry for it makes me think they might be trying to redefine the phrase "light  infantry".

The weapon itself looks to me like it's just a beefed-up M4 (apparently beefed up to be able to handle this new "monster" round), so I don't really see any significant advantage there, either.

Also, I think it is a really bad mistake for the US to start sourcing it's primary weapons from foreign manufacturers - Sig-Sauer in this case. I can't think of any nation in the history of the world that has survived for long after it started relying on foreign sources to supply it's most basic war fighting needs. Never a good idea to put your life and survival in the hands of a potential adversary, no matter how friendly they might appear to be today.

The video mentions a 3 minute of angle group that the weapon is capable of, which to my way of thinking is pretty dismal for an out of the box weapon. My AR shoots 1 MOA - 3 times more accurate than this overweight beast of a weapon. My bolt action rifle shoots 1/2 MOA. To spread those groups out to 3 MOA is sad... just really sad.... It doesn't matter how many feet steel a bullet can pierce at a billion yards if you can't even hit that steel with the bullet.

The optic is ridonkulous. It appears to be designed to "idiot-proof" the aiming procedure, but what happens when your shit goes dead or just plain breaks, and no one got trained on or has possession of any real sights?

On the positive side, if the military decides to start wasting our tax dollars on this bludgeon of a rifle, then it ought to release several billion rounds of 5.56 ammo into the surplus market as this new 15 dollar a round crap starts filtering in to military procurement channels. No real down side there! Well, except for the poor soldiers that have to carry these bricks around all day...

Another plus is that if everyone thinks this round is going to turn their pretty armor into butter, then maybe more folks will stop wearing those turtle-shells and exponentially increase their own maneuverability.

BUT - the army can do what the hell ever it likes. Every day that goes by, I am more and more glad that I'll not have to deal with the blunders they make now.

No damned wonder they have such a hard-on to take away folks' AR's. They don't want civilians to be better armed than "the world's best military" after they get done painting it pink and sticking a rose up it's ass!

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(09-19-2024, 03:04 AM)Infolurker Wrote: I mean... really? 

Go back to 308 / Nato 7.62 x 51

Is the new stuff THAT much better to justify the obscene x20 cost of the ammunition. Is it 20X better than 308? I bet not.

Quote:The HK-416 rifle is quietly taking over the world as one of the most widely used primary weapon systems! This all started back In 2007 when Norway was the first country to widely adopt it for their conventional force, grabbing more than 60,000 rifles. Fast forward ten years and In 2016 France began swapping out their FAMAS for the when they placed just a massive Cosco size bulk order of 117,000 rifles. Now they were on a rolls because only A year later in 2017 the entire United States Marine corps switched to the HK416. They’ve since acquired 14,000 of these rifles to their front line combat roles. But you might not have heard about it because they made tiny adjustments to the weapon and renamed it to the M27 IAR, Norway put an N at the end of the name and France tossed an F to throw us all off. If it looks like a duck quacks like a duck and shoots like an HK416 then it's probably an HK416. The rabbit hole gets even deeper as we continue to dig. By 2021 the German military made the call to switch to the HK416 by ordering 118,000 of the rifles. But they named it to the G95A1 but it’s basically the same exact weapon with some minor improvements and upgrades. That’s a grand total of at least 309,000 rifles ordered under one name or another. That's not even including the dozen or so special forces units who run the weapon - which means it's found in at least 30 different countries.

(05-13-2025, 10:28 PM)727Sky Wrote: When the rifle first came out there were glowing propaganda reports about what a fine weapon it was... This latest report reminds me of the M-16 issued to the troops in Vietnam which at first was also a POS that got our troops killed. It is a heavy weapon which means it is slow on target and the suppressor after a few 100 rounds washes out your night vision goggles due to heat glow.

Quote:Plumbers may have been blamed before for excessive bills. But none has come close to matching an extravagant claim by a South Carolina firm: almost $1 million (£500,000) for two metal washers worth 19 cents each.
Charlene Corley, 47, co-owner of the plumbing and electrical firm C&D Distributors, who supplied parts to the US military, is awaiting sentence after pleading guilty on Thursday to defrauding the Pentagon. She faces 20 years in jail.

The most expensive washers in history were part of $20.5 million C&D Distributors stole from the Pentagon over the past 10 years. The company shipped plumbing and electrical parts to US bases around the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan. Using an automated system intended to cut red tape, the company repeatedly added hundreds of thousands of dollars to the cost of shipping parts.
C&D Distributors claimed $998,798 for sending the two washers, which could have been posted through normal mail for a few pounds.
Corley used the money for luxury homes, cars, plastic surgery and jewellery. She admitted her role in the fraud but lawyers placed most of the blame on her sister and co-owner, Darlene, who committed suicide in October after being approached by investigators.
Other bills included $445,640 for shipping one elbow pipe worth $8.75, $492,096 for a machine thread plug, and $403,436 for six screws worth $59.94.

(05-14-2025, 11:54 AM)727Sky Wrote: I did see when they were first fielding the rifle that each round cost $13 US... I really do hope DOGE gets into the insane procurement and waste at the DOD... The old spend it or lose it has been around since I can remember and is still in effect. Who approves this stuff other than someone lining their pockets !!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/18/usa.ewenmacaskill1&ved=2ahUKEwiOz7f68KKNAxUVs1YBHft6BesQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0TMkp-ZIv33IbJgv-g_eFk

Quote:Plumbers may have been blamed before for excessive bills. But none has come close to matching an extravagant claim by a South Carolina firm: almost $1 million (£500,000) for two metal washers worth 19 cents each.
Charlene Corley, 47, co-owner of the plumbing and electrical firm C&D Distributors, who supplied parts to the US military, is awaiting sentence after pleading guilty on Thursday to defrauding the Pentagon. She faces 20 years in jail.

The most expensive washers in history were part of $20.5 million C&D Distributors stole from the Pentagon over the past 10 years. The company shipped plumbing and electrical parts to US bases around the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan. Using an automated system intended to cut red tape, the company repeatedly added hundreds of thousands of dollars to the cost of shipping parts.
C&D Distributors claimed $998,798 for sending the two washers, which could have been posted through normal mail for a few pounds.
Corley used the money for luxury homes, cars, plastic surgery and jewellery. She admitted her role in the fraud but lawyers placed most of the blame on her sister and co-owner, Darlene, who committed suicide in October after being approached by investigators.
Other bills included $445,640 for shipping one elbow pipe worth $8.75, $492,096 for a machine thread plug, and $403,436 for six screws worth $59.94.

(05-14-2025, 12:23 PM)Bally002 Wrote:

(05-14-2025, 11:54 AM)727Sky Wrote: I did see when they were first fielding the rifle that each round cost $13 US... I really do hope DOGE gets into the insane procurement and waste at the DOD... The old spend it or lose it has been around since I can remember and is still in effect. Who approves this stuff other than someone lining their pockets !!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/aug/18/usa.ewenmacaskill1&ved=2ahUKEwiOz7f68KKNAxUVs1YBHft6BesQFnoECCAQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0TMkp-ZIv33IbJgv-g_eFk

Quote:Plumbers may have been blamed before for excessive bills. But none has come close to matching an extravagant claim by a South Carolina firm: almost $1 million (£500,000) for two metal washers worth 19 cents each.
Charlene Corley, 47, co-owner of the plumbing and electrical firm C&D Distributors, who supplied parts to the US military, is awaiting sentence after pleading guilty on Thursday to defrauding the Pentagon. She faces 20 years in jail.

The most expensive washers in history were part of $20.5 million C&D Distributors stole from the Pentagon over the past 10 years. The company shipped plumbing and electrical parts to US bases around the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan. Using an automated system intended to cut red tape, the company repeatedly added hundreds of thousands of dollars to the cost of shipping parts.
C&D Distributors claimed $998,798 for sending the two washers, which could have been posted through normal mail for a few pounds.
Corley used the money for luxury homes, cars, plastic surgery and jewellery. She admitted her role in the fraud but lawyers placed most of the blame on her sister and co-owner, Darlene, who committed suicide in October after being approached by investigators.
Other bills included $445,640 for shipping one elbow pipe worth $8.75, $492,096 for a machine thread plug, and $403,436 for six screws worth $59.94.

Crikey!  People just get greedy and it's not worth your life.  I sell pumpkins for $2.50 each.  Couldn't think of shipping them for 250,000 per veg.

Regards,

Bally)