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+--- Thread: Stuff Going on in South America (/showthread.php?tid=1554)
Stuff Going on in South America - sailorsam - 12-01-2023
Venezuela borders a small obscure country called Guyana.
Guyana has found oil.
Venezuela once owned much of Guyana and now wants it back.
V's President Maduro is running a referendum on re-conquest
https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-guyana-essequibo-territory-dispute-maduro-referendum-d3e65757ca8da2355994ec8a44c148ba
Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro has thrown the full weight of his government into the effort, using patriotic rhetoric to try to summon voters to the polls to answer five questions over the territory, including whether current and future area residents should be granted Venezuelan citizenship.
Guyana sees the referendum as a case of annexation and asked the International Court of Justice on Nov. 14 to halt parts of the vote. The court has not issued a decision, but even if it rules against Venezuela, Maduro’s government intends to hold the election Sunday.
Brazil is manning their border. just in case.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-increases-northern-border-military-presence-amid-venezuela-guyana-spat-2023-11-29/
Brazil "has intensified defensive actions" along its northern border as it monitors a territorial dispute between its neighbors, Guyana and Venezuela, the country's defense ministry said on Wednesday.
Brazil's push to move more military resources north comes amid rising tensions between Venezuela and Guayana over an oil-rich region known as the "Esequiba," which constitutes over two thirds of Guyana's total land mass.
here's hoping nobody starts shooting.
and I hope Maduro keeps his hands off his neighbor.
this is the sort of aggression the UN is supposed to help prevent. time for them to justify themselves some.
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - SomeJackleg - 12-01-2023
(12-01-2023, 02:53 PM)sailorsam Wrote: Venezuela borders a small obscure country called Guyana.
Guyana has found oil.
Venezuela once owned much of Guyana and now wants it back.
V's President Maduro is running a referendum on re-conquest
https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-guyana-essequibo-territory-dispute-maduro-referendum-d3e65757ca8da2355994ec8a44c148ba
Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro has thrown the full weight of his government into the effort, using patriotic rhetoric to try to summon voters to the polls to answer five questions over the territory, including whether current and future area residents should be granted Venezuelan citizenship.
Guyana sees the referendum as a case of annexation and asked the International Court of Justice on Nov. 14 to halt parts of the vote. The court has not issued a decision, but even if it rules against Venezuela, Maduro’s government intends to hold the election Sunday.
Brazil is manning their border. just in case.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-increases-northern-border-military-presence-amid-venezuela-guyana-spat-2023-11-29/
Brazil "has intensified defensive actions" along its northern border as it monitors a territorial dispute between its neighbors, Guyana and Venezuela, the country's defense ministry said on Wednesday.
Brazil's push to move more military resources north comes amid rising tensions between Venezuela and Guayana over an oil-rich region known as the "Esequiba," which constitutes over two thirds of Guyana's total land mass.
here's hoping nobody starts shooting.
and I hope Maduro keeps his hands off his neighbor.
this is the sort of aggression the UN is supposed to help prevent. time for them to justify themselves some.
venezuela is a ally with one of the new axis of evil. ol farty. looks like their taking a page from his play book.
from last year,
Quote:CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro pledged a “powerful military cooperation” with Russia following high-level discussions between officials Wednesday, a day after diplomats from the U.S. and several other nations gathered to discuss steps toward a negotiated solution to the South American country’s protracted crisis.
Venezuela’s leader pledges military cooperation with Russia
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - CoyoteAngel - 12-01-2023
Seems the world is just careening forward to global war and nothing will stop it.
I've also become painfully aware that I lack education about affairs between countries in South America. But I know enough to know that rising tensions on the continent will only make the migration to Latin and North America even heavier.
Heck of a time for the Senate to be battling over Amnesty, again.
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - Chiefsmom - 12-01-2023
If Brazil is willing to protect, and let the little country stay independent, let them handle it.
Venezuela needs to worry about it's self right now. It's got a long road ahead of it, to clean itself up. Stop worrying about your neighbors.
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - xuenchen - 12-01-2023
People can always flee to French Guiana
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - Infolurker - 12-01-2023
![[Image: 2vv8rz.jpg]](https://i.imgflip.com/2vv8rz.jpg)
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - Ninurta - 12-02-2023
First off, Venezuela has never, EVER, owned any part of Guyana. Not a single square inch. Venezuela claimed the territory starting shortly after their own independence in 1824, but the claim was never, and will never be, legitimate. At the time of Venezuelan independence, Guyana had been under Dutch, and then British, rule and ownership for well over 200 years before Venezuela even existed to claim anything at all.
Venezuela attempted to base the claim as the "successor" to Spanish claims in the area, but the Spanish never had any claim on that territory, either. It was first under indigenous control, which gave way to Dutch control (starting in 1591), not Spanish, and the Spanish recognized Dutch claims in 1648. From there, the Dutch ceded control of the lands to the British in 1814, 10 years before the Spaniards lost control of Venezuela and Venezuela became independent. In 1899, an International Tribunal confirmed that the land was under British control as it had been since Britain formally received it from the Dutch in 1814, although the British assumed defacto control of Guyana in 1796, gaining treaty confirmation 18 years later.
So, Venezuela has NO legitimate claims on the area. This is a pure attempt at a land grab of someone else's lands, accelerated by the discovery of oil off the Guyana coast - 11 billion barrels of reserves. Venezuela wants to steal that oil from it's rightful owners, the people of Guyana, which is an independent state, and has been since gaining independence from Britain in 1966 and forming a legitimate independent republic government in 1970.
It's not, and never has been, Venezuela's land to claim. This claim is a bit like the Chinese claim to international waters and the territory of their neighbors in the South China Sea - it's just not legitimate, any way you try to cut it.
Since the US insists on involving themselves in a foreign war in Russia, backing a breakaway Russian province called the Ukraine... a war in which the US has no national interest nor any legitimate claim to the Ukrainian lands that seceded from Russia after the collapse of the USSR, how much more so should they come to the defense of Guyana? At least in Guyana we have an independent nation, one that has ALWAYS been independent of Venezuela, fighting for it's own survival and against forced "annexation" by a foreign invading power.
Furthermore, we can demonstrate a national interest in the fact that oil has been found in Guyana, in the western hemisphere, and it is in our own interests to be able to trade for that oil from an independent Guyana rather than having to go beg the Marxists in Venezuela for a trickle of it.
In other words, why would we involve ourselves in what is essentially a Russian civil war and ignore the legitimate needs of our OWN neighbors, in our OWN hemisphere?
The US should enter a pact with Brazil to defend the independence of Guyana, with the Brazilians securing the southern and western Guyana borders and the US securing the coastline... and allowing Guyana to continue the development of it's own resources securely. It;s much, MUCH more in our national interests, not to mention fighting on the side of right, to assist Guyana and trounce Venezuela than it is to meddle in internal Russian affairs.
I think it's too cute that Venezuela thinks they can just vote in Venezuelan "citizenship" and impose it on Guyanans. What if Guyana doesn't want any Venezuelan citizenship? and it's apparent the don't! That would be a bit like Mexico annexing the US just by voting US citizens as actually being Mexican citizens, without giving US citizens any say in the matter... and without the US ever having been any part of Mexico.
Just a pure diabolical land-grab.
I don't think that would fly very well, either...
.
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - xuenchen - 12-02-2023
(12-01-2023, 10:39 PM)Infolurker Wrote:
U.S. Congresswoman Jackie Speier could not be reached for comment.
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - NightskyeB4Dawn - 12-02-2023
I am between a rock and a hard place, and from where I stand, all of this reminds me of Israel and Gaza. Where they have also found oil.
I have family in Venezuela. There has been bad blood between Guyana and Venezuela for a long time.
Venezuela like Israel, thinks they own Guyana, the land, the people, and anything else that is there. I am not going to say anything about French colonialism. But there is a lot more going on then the MSM will every let you know about.
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - F2d5thCav - 12-02-2023
(12-01-2023, 06:57 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote: If Brazil is willing to protect, and let the little country stay independent, let them handle it.
Venezuela needs to worry about it's self right now. It's got a long road ahead of it, to clean itself up. Stop worrying about your neighbors.
Exactly. It is easier for Venezuela's "leaders" (sorry lot that they are) to distract their public with a war than engage in serious reform.
Cheers
RE: Stuff Going on in South America - sailorsam - 12-02-2023
UN says no.
https://apnews.com/article/venezuela-guyana-maduro-referendum-essequibo-c031c2e6264392183503d988d6346e8e
The United Nations’ top court on Friday ordered Venezuela not to take any action that would alter Guyana’s control over a disputed territory, but did not specifically ban Venezuela from holding its planned referendum Sunday on the territory’s future.
Guyana had asked the International Court of Justice to order a halt to parts of the vote, saying it was aimed at paving the way for Venezuela to annex the disputed Essequibo region, which makes up some two-thirds of Guyana.
I seriously doubt Maduro cares what the UN says