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New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - Infolurker - 08-22-2023

I think they are getting worried that they will not be able to cheat enough when 75% of the country is against them. A "lottery drawing" is a much easier way to cheat and you don't have to worry about opinion polls or post voter polling data.


TDS has them so frightened that they are actually suggesting that Eliminating Elections Is Democracy!!!

Well, most of us know what "Democracy" means to them, in simple terms The Democratic Party in charge at any cost.

https://web.archive.org/web/20230821094803/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/21/opinion/elections-democracy.html/


Quote:On the eve of the first debate of the 2024 presidential race, trust in government is rivaling historic lows. Officials have been working hard to safeguard elections and assure citizens of their integrity. But if we want public office to have integrity, we might be better off eliminating elections altogether.

If you think that sounds anti-democratic, think again. The ancient Greeks invented democracy, and in Athens many government officials were selected through sortition — a random lottery from a pool of candidates. In the United States, we already use a version of a lottery to select jurors. What if we did the same with mayors, governors, legislators, justices and even presidents?

People expect leaders chosen at random to be less effective than those picked systematically. But in multiple experiments led by the psychologist Alexander Haslam, the opposite held true. Groups actually made smarter decisions when leaders were chosen at random than when they were elected by a group or chosen based on leadership skill.

Why were randomly chosen leaders more effective? They led more democratically. “Systematically selected leaders can undermine group goals,” Dr. Haslam and his colleagues suggest, because they have a tendency to “assert their personal superiority.” When you’re anointed by the group, it can quickly go to your head: [i]I’m the chosen one.[/i]



When you know you’re picked at random, you don’t experience enough power to be corrupted by it. Instead, you feel a heightened sense of responsibility: [i]I did nothing to earn this, so I need to make sure I represent the group well. [/i]And in one of the Haslam experiments, when a leader was picked at random, members were more likely to stand by the group’s decisions.

Over the past year I’ve floated the idea of sortition with a number of current members of Congress. Their immediate concern is ability: How do we make sure that citizens chosen randomly are capable of governing?


In ancient Athens, people had a choice about whether to participate in the lottery. They also had to pass an examination of their capacity to exercise public rights and duties. In America, imagine that anyone who wants to enter the pool has to pass a civics test — the same standard as immigrants applying for citizenship. We might wind up with leaders who understand the Constitution.


A lottery would also improve our odds of avoiding the worst candidates in the first place. When it comes to character, our elected officials aren’t exactly crushing it. To paraphrase William F. Buckley Jr., I’d rather be governed by the first 535 people in the phone book. That’s because the people most drawn to power are usually the least fit to wield it.


The most dangerous traits in a leader are what psychologists call the dark triad of personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. What these traits share is a willingness to exploit others for personal gain. People with dark triad traits tend to be more politically ambitious — they’re attracted to authority for its own sake. But we often fall under their spell. Is that you, George Santos?

In a study of elections worldwide, candidates who were rated by experts as having high psychopathy scores actually did better at the ballot box. In the United States, presidents assessed as having psychopathic and narcissistic tendencies were more persuasive with the public than their peers. A common explanation is that they’re masters of fearless dominance and superficial charm, and we mistake their confidence for competence. Sadly, it starts early: Even kids who display narcissistic personality traits get more leadership nominations and claim to be better leaders. (They aren’t.)

If the dark triad wins an election, we all lose. When psychologists rated the first 42 American presidents, the narcissists were more likely to take reckless risks, make unethical decisions and get impeached. Add a dash of Machiavellianism and a pinch of psychopathy, and you get autocrats like Putin, Erdoğan, Orbán and Duterte.


Eliminate voting, and candidates with dark triad traits would be less likely than they are now to rise to the top. Of course, there’s also a risk that a lottery would deprive us of the chance to select a leader with distinctive skills. At this point, that’s a risk I’m willing to take. As lucky as America was to have Lincoln at the helm, it’s more important to limit our exposure to bad character than to roll the dice on the hopes of finding the best.


Besides, if Lincoln were alive now, it’s hard to imagine that he’d even put his top hat in the ring. In a world filled with divisiveness and derision, evidence shows that members of Congress are increasingly rewarded for incivility. And they know it.
A lottery would give a fair shot to people who aren’t tall enough or male enough to win. It would also open the door to people who aren’t connected or wealthy enough to run. Our broken campaign finance system lets the rich and powerful buy their way into races while preventing people without money or influence from getting on the ballot. They’re probably better candidates: Research suggests that on average, people who grow up in low-income families tend to be more effective leaders and less likely to cheat — they’re less prone to narcissism and entitlement.


Switching to sortition would save a lot of money too. The 2020 elections alone cost upward of $14 billion. And if there’s no campaign, there are no special interests offering to help pay for it.

Finally, no voting also means no boundaries to gerrymander and no Electoral College to dispute. Instead of questioning whether millions of ballots were counted accurately, we could watch the lottery live, like we do with teams getting their lottery picks in the NBA draft.

Other countries have begun to see the promise of sortition. Two decades ago, Canadian provinces and the Dutch government started using sortition to create citizens’ assemblies that generated ideas for improving democracy. In the past few years, the French, British and German governments have run lotteries to select citizens to work on climate change policies. Ireland tried a hybrid model, gathering 33 politicians and 66 randomly chosen citizens for its 2012 constitutional convention. In Bolivia, the nonprofit Democracy in Practice works with schools to replace student council elections with lotteries. Instead of elevating the usual suspects, it welcomes a wider range of students to lead and solve real problems in their schools and their communities.

As we prepare for America to turn 250 years old, it may be time to rethink and renew our approach to choosing officials. The lifeblood of a democracy is the active participation of the people. There is nothing more democratic than offering each and every citizen an equal opportunity to lead.





RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - kdog - 08-22-2023

Sure, why not. It would be rigged anyways. 

Big Grin


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - xuenchen - 08-22-2023

Like Jury selections !!! I smell a major Federal declared emergency to start the panic against "voting"  Smile


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - Grace - 08-22-2023

(08-22-2023, 04:43 PM)xuenchen Wrote: Like Jury selections !!! I smell a major Federal declared emergency to start the panic against "voting"  Smile


I was actually wondering if they were going to pull something prior to the election to suspend voting... Looks like they are floating the idea anyway.


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - Ninurta - 08-22-2023

"Democracy" used to mean one man, one vote, back in the dinosaur days when I was young. They actually used to say that very thing - "one man, one vote". Now they want to re-define it to mean "mobs of people, NO votes". Voting is a cornerstone of democracy, so of course they want to eradicate  it - they want to destroy democracy in order to save it, which makes no damned sense.

Part of the reason that American confidence in the government is so low nowadays is the fact that everyone SAW a stolen election, but everyone is also hamstrung and muzzled, not allowed to discuss it. Like Ravaswamy says, if you want to see people yell, try to silence them. If you want to see them burn stuff down, then don't allow them to yell, either. This is a near-perfect plan to kick off a civil war by taking away everyone's voice in elections, however illusionary that voice may be. What a great plan for an excuse for an authoritarian crack-down on freedoms by the Annointed Ones!

So how do you keep everyone from seeing a stolen election, watching the numbers inexplicably change inb real time? How do you avoid having to very publicly shut down vote counts for hours in the middle of the night, only to re-open them with inexplicably changed numbers (if no one was counting, how could those numbers change?) all skewed in one direction? Institute a lottery. As has been mentioned, they are easier to rig, anyhow. You just get a field of 407 people running, and stuff the lottery box with 407 pieces of paper, all with one name on them - the name of the Annointed One. Everyone sees there are 407 pieces of paper in the box, so it has to be legit, right?

.


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - dbcowboy - 08-22-2023

I think the Constitution might have a wee issue with this.

Wink


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - Ninurta - 08-22-2023

(08-22-2023, 10:29 PM)dbcowboy Wrote: I think the Constitution might have a wee issue with this.

Wink

As it turns out, Leftists do not concern themselves with the Constitution. All Leftists, from Baby Bush and Cheney (or "Cheneys" - the entire Cheney klan) right on up to Mao and Stalin seem to think "the Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper", as they have stated right out loud.

.


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - dbcowboy - 08-23-2023

(08-22-2023, 10:38 PM)Ninurta Wrote:
(08-22-2023, 10:29 PM)dbcowboy Wrote: I think the Constitution might have a wee issue with this.

Wink

As it turns out, Leftists do not concern themselves with the Constitution. All Leftists, from Baby Bush and Cheney (or "Cheneys" - the entire Cheney klan) right on up to Mao and Stalin seem to think "the Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper", as they have stated right out loud.

.

I've only taken two oaths in my life.

One to my wife in a church and the other to protect and defend the US Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.


I plan on keeping both.


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - p358 - 08-23-2023

The New York Times is bad for democracy, they should be tried for sedition and treason, that would get their ratings up for a short time as we all watch them having melt downs.

Very entertaining.

PSmile


RE: New York Times - Elections Are Bad for Democracy - Grace - 08-23-2023

(08-23-2023, 06:03 AM)p358 Wrote: The New York Times is bad for democracy, they should be tried for sedition and treason, that would get their ratings up for a short time as we all watch them having melt downs.

Very entertaining.

PSmile


True, the meltdowns are hilarious... Lol