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Will we ever understand - Darkness in soul - 07-17-2023
All wars are always about good and evil, the big problem is both sides are a mix of good and evil.
For good to fight evil good must become evil or even more evil than what it fights if it wants to win. For a long time i understood that to think that one side is all good and the other side is all bad is pointless. I use the light that is in my soul to guide me and hope its strong enough to help heal the hurt. I do not know if i am good or evil, because nothing is all good and nothing is all bad. Everything is a mixture, sometime more good some time more evil.
Do not fear because that is what evil wants, it wants people to live in feat. Live life and keep the joy and light in your soul
The shadow of evil covers the world now, but many people who carry light are driving the shadow of evil away. We can never drive the shadow of evil completely away but we can drive it back and bring light and hope to the world, and we will.
I also think much about the fact that good and evil are very fluid, sometimes I think of things long ago that were seen as evil but now are seen as good. For me hindsight does not bring answers but questions about how fluid good and evil are and how easily interchangeable they are.
How easily we let good and evil be decided by politics. Perhaps the only thing that can decide what is good or evil is us, but if we do then we must take the reasonability for that decision.
Is this the reason we dont make the decision and let others make the decisions for us.
RE: Will we ever understand - NightskyeB4Dawn - 07-17-2023
Understanding. It is a tool.
Bloom taxonomy :
1. Create
2. Evaluate
3. Analyze
4. Apply
5. Understand
6. Remember
Each step could be an obstacle or an opportunity to reaching the goal. But we have become more reactionary, than conscious. Being awake is only a tiny portion of being conscious.
Being conscious and having understanding, dissolves when we react without thinking. Yet thinking, knowing, and understanding, without action is useless. It is a far more complex problem than it appears on the surface.
RE: Will we ever understand - Ninurta - 07-17-2023
Good and evil are deep subjects. Just as one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, good and evil would seem to be in the eye of the beholder... but I don't believe they are. I believe there is an absolute good and an absolute evil, and that they are neither fluid nor relative.
They are no more subjective than Truth. Truth is always objective, but there is a class of person in this world that believes it to be subjective - "your Truth", "my Truth" His or her Truth". There are not versions of Truth, there is only Truth. And so it is with good and evil.
Is killing evil? Not necessarily. Without killing, there is no living - one must kill something, whether plant or animal, simply to eat. "Murder" is evil, but murder is not simple killing - it is UNJUSTIFIABLE killing - i.e. useless killing. But then the subject devolves into whether or not this person or that one can justify the killing in an objective manner.
Defending yourself from a deadly force is almost universally accepted as justification for using deadly force in return, to protect your own life. But what about defense of family? friends? Strangers? Your nation? It gets murkier the deeper you dive.
I'm a simple man, with a simple mind. So for me, it just boils down to self defense, or defense of a loved one, in the end. If a foreign soldier is trying to kill me, I'm gonna kill him right back. The politicians can hash out the politics of it, and bear the responsibility for that. All I know at the time is that guy over there is trying to end me, so I'm going to end him first if I can... and I expect he is doing the same.
.
RE: Will we ever understand - Infolurker - 07-17-2023
Let me help you out a bit. I am pretty sure I know what "Evil" is and I am pretty sure that there are certain organizations and political parties that not only embrace, promote, and spread evil but try to encourage and force others into their wickedness. Thus, the war for our children's bodies, minds, and souls.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that count darkness as light, and light as darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
RE: Will we ever understand - Ninurta - 07-17-2023
(07-17-2023, 10:05 PM)Infolurker Wrote: Let me help you out a bit. I am pretty sure I know what "Evil" is and I am pretty sure that there are certain organizations and political parties that not only embrace, promote, and spread evil but try to encourage and force others into their wickedness. Thus, the war for our children's bodies, minds, and souls.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that count darkness as light, and light as darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Forcing others into anything at all, wicked or not, against their will is inherently evil.
God allows the sun to shine on the righteous and wicked alike - what makes mere mortals superior to God? Why should we be able to force anyone into anything, when God Itself does not?
No one but God has a monopoly on "good" Certainly not mortals. If mortals could discern "good" from "evil", Christianity would not have 400 separate denominations, all set against one another... because what one denomination sees as "good", another sees as "evil", and they are endlessly at odds over the differences. Some times I wonder if they are even worshiping the same God - and if they are, why can't they agree on what is good and what isn't?
Yet all of them think THEY have the one and only answer to good and evil, that their own path is the one and only path to the One True God.
And God laughs at them for their folly and lack of understanding.
If Jesus himself said "Why callest thou me good? There is none good,no, not one, except my father in heaven" Then I for one am supremely unqualified to determine absolute good and evil. I would not usurp the position of God by even trying to.
.
RE: Will we ever understand - Schmoe - 07-18-2023
War is a racket. The book by that title is a great read, written by a Medal of Honor recipient. People all over the world are just like you and me- trying to carve out their own slice of happiness and support their families. It's the "leaders" who are fucked in the head.
I don't think we've fought a just war since WW2, and even that gets a bit murky the deeper you delve. There was more to it than Hitler's genocidal ways. He needed to be killed, absolutely. But try digging into why Germany developed their mindset, and it becomes a bit clearer. Before I'm crucified, I am NOT advocating for Nazi Germany. But look into what Germany was attempting to do pre-WW1, and read War is a Racket by Smedley, and it becomes clearer.
RE: Will we ever understand - Darkness in soul - 07-18-2023
(07-18-2023, 02:23 AM)Schmoe Wrote: War is a racket. The book by that title is a great read, written by a Medal of Honor recipient. People all over the world are just like you and me- trying to carve out their own slice of happiness and support their families. It's the "leaders" who are fucked in the head.
I don't think we've fought a just war since WW2, and even that gets a bit murky the deeper you delve. There was more to it than Hitler's genocidal ways. He needed to be killed, absolutely. But try digging into why Germany developed their mindset, and it becomes a bit clearer. Before I'm crucified, I am NOT advocating for Nazi Germany. But look into what Germany was attempting to do pre-WW1, and read War is a Racket by Smedley, and it becomes clearer.
Some very good thoughts here, there is one though that keeps coming back to me, If we could remove evil from this world should we ?. Let me explane, evil is a powerful basic driving and building force, it drives good and all the things good does. If we remove evil then good has no driving force and dies, if we remove good evil has no need to exist and will stop doing so. There is no balance between the two forces , it a war.
Look at the world, look at what is going on in the citys I feel sometime there is a 3th force acting, driving good and evil to fight. As I said it matters not who wins the winner will destroy its self , will this unseen but sensed 3th force then step in and take power.? Understand im not saying this is so, but more and more people are sensing there is something we dont understand about this conflict between what we call good and evil
RE: Will we ever understand - Ninurta - 07-18-2023
(07-18-2023, 09:13 AM)Darkness in soul Wrote:(07-18-2023, 02:23 AM)Schmoe Wrote: War is a racket. The book by that title is a great read, written by a Medal of Honor recipient. People all over the world are just like you and me- trying to carve out their own slice of happiness and support their families. It's the "leaders" who are fucked in the head.
I don't think we've fought a just war since WW2, and even that gets a bit murky the deeper you delve. There was more to it than Hitler's genocidal ways. He needed to be killed, absolutely. But try digging into why Germany developed their mindset, and it becomes a bit clearer. Before I'm crucified, I am NOT advocating for Nazi Germany. But look into what Germany was attempting to do pre-WW1, and read War is a Racket by Smedley, and it becomes clearer.
Some very good thoughts here, there is one though that keeps coming back to me, If we could remove evil from this world should we ?. Let me explane, evil is a powerful basic driving and building force, it drives good and all the things good does. If we remove evil then good has no driving force and dies, if we remove good evil has no need to exist and will stop doing so. There is no balance between the two forces , it a war.
Look at the world, look at what is going on in the citys I feel sometime there is a 3th force acting, driving good and evil to fight. As I said it matters not who wins the winner will destroy its self , will this unseen but sensed 3th force then step in and take power.? Understand im not saying this is so, but more and more people are sensing there is something we dont understand about this conflict between what we call good and evil
Good observation. Without evil, there is no good, because there is nothing to compare good to, nothing to gauge it with. It's like yin and tang - one cannot exist without the other.
.
RE: Will we ever understand - Schmoe - 07-18-2023
Yup, what Ninurta said. There has to be a litmus to appreciate the good. It's a shame that evil can be SO evil. Lesser degrees of evil would be appreciated. No genocides, no wars, no child-killings. If only we lived in a world where the height of evil was akin to daring to take the last slice of pizza.
RE: Will we ever understand - 727Sky - 07-18-2023
The first big mistake people make is thinking everyone is just like themselves.
RE: Will we ever understand - NightskyeB4Dawn - 07-19-2023
(07-18-2023, 10:30 PM)727Sky Wrote: The first big mistake people make is thinking everyone is just like themselves.
Close. The big mistake is "wanting" everyone to be just like themselves.
They know at first glance that the other is different from themselves, so they immediately go into either confrontation or avoidance mode.
If they they don't look the way they want them to, or don't think and believe what they want them to, they immediately become the enemy.
C
RE: Will we ever understand - Gordi - 07-19-2023
(07-17-2023, 11:27 AM)Darkness in soul Wrote: All wars are always about good and evil...
IMHO the concepts of "Good" and "Evil" are constructs of the human mind.
Wars are not always about good and evil.
They can be about resources, belief systems, fear, ego, power... the list is probably near endless. Some of those reasons may have good or evil connotations, but not all.
Can only human beings be good or evil?
Is there Good or Evil intent when a colony of termites has to defend itself against an attacking army of Ants? or are the Ants simply in need of the resources that the termites are hoarding?
Is a domestic house-cat evil for hunting/killing garden birds or mice for the sport/fun of it, or is it just following its natural instinct to hunt (without actually needing the "extra" food because we keep and feed it)? (*If I killed a garden bird for fun/sport would I be considered evil?...and is that because I am considered to have the power of "reason" and a concept of "morals" that a house-cat does not?)
Most (if not all) of the commentators here, are coming at Good & Evil from a modern, western, Christian (or similar) viewpoint. Even if you are not personally religious as such, the language and historical references for Good and Evil have generally been passed down to you (to us) through generations of our religious forebears. They have a deep religious and moral significance in our various cultures and they directly affect how we view and understand the concepts of Good and Evil today.
Many other cultures simply do not see the duality of good and evil.
Some just see the concept of Evil as being the absence of Good. That Evil itself does not exist - like cold is the absence of heat, or darkness is the absence of light.
Without "good" morals... would we all be inherently evil?
What makes us think that OUR concept of Good and Evil is the correct one?
I tend to think of the concepts of good & evil as being more like the simplified concepts of Right & Wrong.
If I do the right thing, then I or others will benefit and no one will be harmed/upset in (or as a result of) the process.
If I do the wrong thing then bad things will happen.
Not necessarily with "Good or Evil" intent, just basic physics - every action has an equal and opposite reaction etc. Right?
In the end... it's probably just wordplay...
Without Evil - Good would not exist? (and vice-versa.)
Without an Action - The Re-Action would not exist.
Without the concept of God... the Devil??
Without Right... Wrong? or Wrong, Right? etc etc
And Who gets to decide what the definition of ANY of these concepts are anyway?
It's a pickle I tells ya!
G
RE: Will we ever understand - Schmoe - 07-19-2023
(07-19-2023, 08:56 AM)Gordi Wrote:(07-17-2023, 11:27 AM)Darkness in soul Wrote: All wars are always about good and evil...
IMHO the concepts of "Good" and "Evil" are constructs of the human mind.
Wars are not always about good and evil.
They can be about resources, belief systems, fear, ego, power... the list is probably near endless. Some of those reasons may have good or evil connotations, but not all.
Can only human beings be good or evil?
Is there Good or Evil intent when a colony of termites has to defend itself against an attacking army of Ants? or are the Ants simply in need of the resources that the termites are hoarding?
Is a domestic house-cat evil for hunting/killing garden birds or mice for the sport/fun of it, or is it just following its natural instinct to hunt (without actually needing the "extra" food because we keep and feed it)? (*If I killed a garden bird for fun/sport would I be considered evil?...and is that because I am considered to have the power of "reason" and a concept of "morals" that a house-cat does not?)
Most (if not all) of the commentators here, are coming at Good & Evil from a modern, western, Christian (or similar) viewpoint. Even if you are not personally religious as such, the language and historical references for Good and Evil have generally been passed down to you (to us) through generations of our religious forebears. They have a deep religious and moral significance in our various cultures and they directly affect how we view and understand the concepts of Good and Evil today.
Many other cultures simply do not see the duality of good and evil.
Some just see the concept of Evil as being the absence of Good. That Evil itself does not exist - like cold is the absence of heat, or darkness is the absence of light.
Without "good" morals... would we all be inherently evil?
What makes us think that OUR concept of Good and Evil is the correct one?
I tend to think of the concepts of good & evil as being more like the simplified concepts of Right & Wrong.
If I do the right thing, then I or others will benefit and no one will be harmed/upset in (or as a result of) the process.
If I do the wrong thing then bad things will happen.
Not necessarily with "Good or Evil" intent, just basic physics - every action has an equal and opposite reaction etc. Right?
In the end... it's probably just wordplay...
Without Evil - Good would not exist? (and vice-versa.)
Without an Action - The Re-Action would not exist.
Without the concept of God... the Devil??
Without Right... Wrong? or Wrong, Right? etc etc
And Who gets to decide what the definition of ANY of these concepts are anyway?
It's a pickle I tells ya!
G
True, things are rarely so black and white. Same situations can be good for some and evil for others. Like robbery, for example. Someone maybe looted a store to help out a family in need. That could be seen as good for the family, but evil for the store owner.
Also Gordi, my mother is still waiting on those 18 years of back-paid child support. That's another example of good and evil. Not paying child support is good for your wallet, but evil for poor Schmoe who had to live in a hovel
RE: Will we ever understand - Gordi - 07-20-2023
(07-19-2023, 03:13 PM)Schmoe Wrote: True, things are rarely so black and white. Same situations can be good for some and evil for others. Like robbery, for example. Someone maybe looted a store to help out a family in need. That could be seen as good for the family, but evil for the store owner.
Also Gordi, my mother is still waiting on those 18 years of back-paid child support. That's another example of good and evil. Not paying child support is good for your wallet, but evil for poor Schmoe who had to live in a hovel
Well, to be fair @"Schmoe"#128 , the whole Rugby Team is actually still waiting for the results of the DNA test that your mother said she'd provide...
G
RE: Will we ever understand - Schmoe - 07-20-2023
(07-20-2023, 12:28 PM)Gordi Wrote:(07-19-2023, 03:13 PM)Schmoe Wrote: True, things are rarely so black and white. Same situations can be good for some and evil for others. Like robbery, for example. Someone maybe looted a store to help out a family in need. That could be seen as good for the family, but evil for the store owner.
Also Gordi, my mother is still waiting on those 18 years of back-paid child support. That's another example of good and evil. Not paying child support is good for your wallet, but evil for poor Schmoe who had to live in a hovel
Well, to be fair @"Schmoe"#128 , the whole Rugby Team is actually still waiting for the results of the DNA test that your mother said she'd provide...
G
Unbelievable. She told me it was the soccer team