+- Rogue-Nation Discussion Board (https://rogue-nation.com/mybb)
+-- Forum: Spirits and the Spiritual (https://rogue-nation.com/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=81)
+--- Forum: Religions and Matters of Faith (https://rogue-nation.com/mybb/forumdisplay.php?fid=84)
+--- Thread: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? (/showthread.php?tid=2498)
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-11-2024
(12-10-2024, 10:17 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: Flicker, I not going to post the following without letting you know first that this is merely an exercise.
Quote:What I meant by that was, there are people in this world that want to control us by fear. The ultimate fear is an unseen fear that, "if you don't do what I say you're going to burn in hell" is a great way to scare people.
Yeah, an eternity in Hell sure sounds scary to me and fear is a great control method.
Quote:Man/woman/mankind has evil in its own heart, brought to us by the evil that we are taught. We just continue to pass it along.
Sure, but "evil we are taught", that part seems questionable when it is a dog eat dog world and humans are on top of that food chain. Then there is this "born in sin" idea that we will never get out of without the blood of Christ. The original sin is a hard one to justify if God was so loving and understanding, esp. when God blessed us and saw that it was "good" in his eyes. We have a sinful nature to be sure, but I believe that you could use the phrase our base nature or true nature in place of sinful nature in a sentence.
Quote:Sure, God is to "blame," but only if you're looking for 'someone to blame.'
Sure, it's His creation.
It got messed up, due to evil forces.
Then admittedly the forces of nature are evil forces, or at least those natural forces that created our inborn sinful nature are. Who created and controls all the forces of nature?
Quote:Would you still love a God that put you through hard times and suffering to break you free from this curse? If you knew that this suffering, this experience is absolutely necessary to move onto the next level (the new heaven and earth), would you still see that this is done because of benevolence, or could you see that all of this is done through love?
Suppose for a moment that God never allowed such a curse to befall his beloved children? What if suffering is not necessary to grow, learn and evolve? If either of these are valid possibilities than how could I possibly see my suffering as loving and benevolent? It sounds like a controlling, sadistic and abusive relationship as described.
Quote:We are eternal beings. Eternal lessons take longer than 100 years, or less. I would think.
If we are eternal beings and not mere mortals who are born to die.
I'm spent. There you go, have at it.
Wait, we have the Eucharist, the cannibalistic consumption of Christ's flesh and blood, and his crucifixion with the whipping and all. Man that is some fetish. Not sure why I thought of all that.
I'm prepared to have people Pico my beliefs apart. I know that we all see this differently. These are the great debates of the world.
May, I ask a question before o spend anymore of my energy on this:
Are you wrestling with your faith? Mad at God? Or wanting to prove that God is mean, and hates us, actually?
Not sure what you're looking for either here.
Without God, and whatever it is he is up to, we wouldnt have a chance at life. At all. We would of never existed. We can choose happiness, or we can choose to not believe.
The in between is a dangerous place to dwell.
But you'd have to make an argument as to how its Satan that is actually the one who loves us----not how God hates us. Thats too easy. A sensible argument that satan actually loves us instead would be a hard one to make.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-11-2024
(12-11-2024, 12:29 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote:(12-10-2024, 10:17 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: Flicker, I not going to post the following without letting you know first that this is merely an exercise.
Quote:What I meant by that was, there are people in this world that want to control us by fear. The ultimate fear is an unseen fear that, "if you don't do what I say you're going to burn in hell" is a great way to scare people.
Yeah, an eternity in Hell sure sounds scary to me and fear is a great control method.
Quote:Man/woman/mankind has evil in its own heart, brought to us by the evil that we are taught. We just continue to pass it along.
Sure, but "evil we are taught", that part seems questionable when it is a dog eat dog world and humans are on top of that food chain. Then there is this "born in sin" idea that we will never get out of without the blood of Christ. The original sin is a hard one to justify if God was so loving and understanding, esp. when God blessed us and saw that it was "good" in his eyes. We have a sinful nature to be sure, but I believe that you could use the phrase our base nature or true nature in place of sinful nature in a sentence.
Quote:Sure, God is to "blame," but only if you're looking for 'someone to blame.'
Sure, it's His creation.
It got messed up, due to evil forces.
Then admittedly the forces of nature are evil forces, or at least those natural forces that created our inborn sinful nature are. Who created and controls all the forces of nature?
Quote:Would you still love a God that put you through hard times and suffering to break you free from this curse? If you knew that this suffering, this experience is absolutely necessary to move onto the next level (the new heaven and earth), would you still see that this is done because of benevolence, or could you see that all of this is done through love?
Suppose for a moment that God never allowed such a curse to befall his beloved children? What if suffering is not necessary to grow, learn and evolve? If either of these are valid possibilities than how could I possibly see my suffering as loving and benevolent? It sounds like a controlling, sadistic and abusive relationship as described.
Quote:We are eternal beings. Eternal lessons take longer than 100 years, or less. I would think.
If we are eternal beings and not mere mortals who are born to die.
I'm spent. There you go, have at it.
Wait, we have the Eucharist, the cannibalistic consumption of Christ's flesh and blood, and his crucifixion with the whipping and all. Man that is some fetish. Not sure why I thought of all that.
I'm prepared to have people Pico my beliefs apart. I know that we all see this differently. These are the great debates of the world.
May, I ask a question before o spend anymore of my energy on this:
Are you wrestling with your faith? Mad at God? Or wanting to prove that God is mean, and hates us, actually?
Not sure what you're looking for either here.
Without God, and whatever it is he is up to, we wouldnt have a chance at life. At all. We would of never existed. We can choose happiness, or we can choose to not believe.
The in between is a dangerous place to dwell.
But you'd have to make an argument as to how its Satan that is actually the one who loves us----not how God hates us. Thats too easy. A sensible argument that satan actually loves us instead would be a hard one to make.
Ps. The drink my blood and gnaw on my flesh are metaphors.
We learn about evil just by living this existence and our freewill.
We are inheritely flawed due to the original sin. However I believe that to of be on purpose, and not as much as the devil fooling God that we've made it out to be. I believe it was strategic, and part of our learning experience here. This is the life of learning the knowledge of good and evil. We couldn't learn what evil really is unless we live it, and experience it for ourselves.
And yes, the violent destructive forces were necessary for creation and the balance within. Love brought it together and held it together.
A very philosophical way of stating that. This is simply how my feeble mind understands something that is impossible to fully understand.
(All part of the plan)
And I've heard this throughout my life, and in many different lectures, and other sources from all over, but I tend to believe this as well, and that is 'we have all made the choice to be here, and experience this material world. Problem is, once we get here we don't like it."
The answers are within us. This sounds like something to mediate on. Search within, maybe.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-11-2024
This is a disturbing subject and approaching it from the angle that I am makes it even more so, esp. for those of faith of almost any kind, but particularly the Judeo-Christian faiths.
Yes, I have been mad at God and pretty much everyone lately due to my current circumstances, however, this began before all this, must be five years ago now. It began as a creative writing project, a kind of spooky one, I don't want to elaborate except to say I allowed this project to lead me to where I arrived. Now I have come to a kind of writer's block, a creative problem involving a huge dilemma, one that involves an entire genre of fictional writing.
So, in order to get going in a fruitful direction, I am testing the waters on different forums to get an idea of how to proceed and maybe produce what I was trying for. This involves the climax of my entire plot, and after three chapters I have to be careful I can make it work in the end. It may mean I give up on this story, but I have invested years now and I really like the characters and the story too much to toss it away.
So, I've given my secret away and I will no longer have much of a chance to get your most true and heart felt thoughts on this subject. That's much of what I need is your reactions, everyone's reactions to the things I was tossing up on the wall. The counter arguments are just as important to this as well, so you can keep up with that as it will help me, but I feel like I played out the Rogues and must move on with this elsewhere.
I'd love to elaborate on my methods and exactly what I am referring to but I'm afraid I'd give too much away before it is completed. Although, it is possible I could start another thread on another subject that would help me out without making it obvious what my creative writing ideas are.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-11-2024
Ah, the hell with it. This quote will help you understand.
Quote:In the last decade, the horror genre has experienced a renaissance. Horror films have seen a huge increase in critical acclaim, increased critical engagement in analysis of the genre, and an increase in available budgets for horror films and box office returns. One of the most noticeable trends within the genre in the 2010s has been an increasing divide in the stylistic approach to the genre. On one hand, we have more mainstream, “jump scare” horror films, on the other, there are horror movies that take an art-house approach to the genre. The mainstream type leans into the conventional, established approach to scaring the audience, while the more art-house horror films focus more on the metaphorical or psychological, looking to disorient its audience and create a sense of dread or unease instead of straightforward scares.
This, the "art-house approach" to horror.
Slasher films and the jump-scare tactic create reflexive responses to horror. Horror must evolve and art-house horror is the way forward IMO. This is my purpose with all this. Now, I haven't shared my concept of how to achieve the art-house goal, so that is safe for now, but that last sentence, that is where I am headed.
Quote:the metaphorical or psychological, looking to disorient its audience and create a sense of dread or unease instead of straightforward scares.
I hope that makes things clearer for everyone and opens the discussion up more. This is the only place I ever mentioned any of this. Literally (pun intended), no one knows what I am trying to do.
LINK
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-14-2024
Wow, just Wow.
I don't know who may be following this thread, but this topic really rubs people the wrong way. Even after I have explained that it's only an exercise and nothing serious.
I can understand how off-putting the idea that we are currently living in hell is and that God is actually the bad guy in all this. Plus, toss in the idea that maybe the devil and his demons have risked it all to rebel for a very good reason and people get pretty angry. Even these new-age vibration bunch and their "it's all good" attitude get pissed off at me.
I am willing to bet that I would get the same response no matter what people believe because I have pointed out something that no one wants to acknowledge. That is that we live because we kill and consume other living things and in addition, we alter and destroy the natural world to provide for all our needs. No one wants to confront this reality, and my blunt approach seems to hit that nail squarely on its head.
I am going to search out the Satanic worship websites and forums and present this same idea and I am certain most will disagree and get extremely angry with me. That seems to be where I should go next. Given what I have experienced thus far, I will be either heralded as an idiot or a Satanic saint, if such a thing was possible.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-15-2024
I just want to add that people have invested so much in their beliefs and hold them so tightly that their reaction is they ignore, deny, or argue from every angle possible to either prove this idea wrong or convince you that their perspective is the correct one. This idea I have been putting forth is so universally opposed, that this seems to get to the core of something that disturbs almost everyone. That disturbance is worth studying for my purposes and this subject works quite well. It would be even better if I find similarly disturbing ideas that can be woven into this one.
This resistance, this refusal to give such an idea any consideration, the anger and other emotions that are involved, are very important aspects of what I am striving for.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-16-2024
(12-15-2024, 12:56 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I just want to add that people have invested so much in their beliefs and hold them so tightly that their reaction is they ignore, deny, or argue from every angle possible to either prove this idea wrong or convince you that their perspective is the correct one. This idea I have been putting forth is so universally opposed, that this seems to get to the core of something that disturbs almost everyone. That disturbance is worth studying for my purposes and this subject works quite well. It would be even better if I find similarly disturbing ideas that can be woven into this one.
This resistance, this refusal to give such an idea any consideration, the anger and other emotions that are involved, are very important aspects of what I am striving for.
I'll indulge the thought. It doesn't bother me that you (or anyone) are searching deep for an answer.
I do, sort of believe that we are in a hell, or prison, if you will.
A temporary prison where we are locked up with evil. So that we may learn good and evil.
I've wondered if we are post rapture and post mark of the beast somehow.
I've also wondered if we were actually in "hell." But, then I started to see the good in the world and realized hell couldn't provide us with any of the goodness that's in the world.
I changed my perspective and attitude towards life and this existence, and that helped move me past my anger, and I was able to see the Light again.
The truth of it all has been so well hidden from us. I asked some questions a few years ago that lead me to examine black magic from an academic standpoint. I've seen what true satanic worship looks like, and what a real witch acts like, and what is in these people's hearts. All you'd have to do is sit with any of these people with true evil in their hearts, and truly evil ways of controlling spirits and performing black magic and you will realize very quickly that, no, none of that comes from any "good" source.
If there was any merit to the question then these Satanist would be "good people" and doing good things.
They're not, from any view I could see.
Sadly, a lot of "Christians" do wicked and evil things under the name of Jesus.
This too is wicked.
Truth be told, it is hard to tell the difference in people.
We'd have to see a scenario where Satan was actually trying to help us, and how. How would the devil be trying to help us? If he's got Angelic powers, why wouldn't he be performing miracles to actually lead us to a truth?
I will go down the road of thought with you, but I need some way of seeing what you're seeing.
This is an experience to learn good and evil. We see both here in this existence. If we cannot learn to see the good in life, and all we see is the bad then this existence does seem like hell. But, when we start to see the good in this world, and this life, then we can see the "Flicker of lights" that are in the world that illuminate our paths and show us that God is good.
I made a suggestion, and it is a dangerous one. But, you could always experiment, and go actually be around some people who worship Satan, or people who perform black magic. It won't take long to see how evil it all actually is. If you decide that is where your "savior" is then let us know what you find.
I've come to understand that if my heart is full of darkness then the darkness is all I see.
If my heart is full of light and goodness then that is all I see.
My heart is filled with both light and darkness, and so I see both.
I choose whatever is in that "Light." I have seen the difference in love and hate, and I choose love.
I don't think this scares everyone. I think there are a lot of people who may be concerned about your pattern of thought here. If they can't accept that this is a sort of prison and a test to see what we choose when presented with good and evil then they have missed the point of all of this.
Just remember that the Antichrist is a part of the prophecies, and a lot of people believe Satan will be coming on the scene and he will make people feel exactly like what you are claiming here; that he is our savior and it is he who will "save the world."
It is prophetic that this will fool many people into thinking what you're thinking here.
As I'm sure you're aware, this is an old question. This guy has many videos asking this same thing and this dude gives a good argument to the question. If you haven't seen his videos yet check him out. He is saying the devil is the one trying to save us from God.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-16-2024
Flicker Of Light,
Thanks, you got the gist of it, but no matter how I say this, most won't understand so it seems. Maybe this guy in the video is working on the same logic, I'd be surprised though.
I have been trolling the Satanic forums for opinions from those people, however, I have no intention of visiting a meeting or something like that. I am looking for arguments one way or the other, but more than that, I'm searching for reactions, and all this for a fictional writing project meant to entertain, not convert.
What I believe concerning good and evil is meaningless, the reaction it evokes is more important for my purposes. I must admit this, the following statement you made is also important in all this . . .
Quote:Just remember that the Antichrist is a part of the prophecies, and a lot of people believe Satan will be coming on the scene and he will make people feel exactly like what you are claiming here; that he is our savior and it is he who will "save the world."
It is prophetic that this will fool many people into thinking what you're thinking here.
I seem to be a little late to that party, and ultimately when I am done writing, I hope to present a good argument against this idea I've been going on about, a good enough argument to get people to not fall for it. Whatever counter argument I use, it has to save the protagonist at any rate.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-17-2024
(12-16-2024, 09:02 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: Flicker Of Light,Sometimes a glimpse into that world helps to see things clearly. It's not a pretty glimpse though, and I don't actually recommend it.
Thanks, you got the gist of it, but no matter how I say this, most won't understand so it seems. Maybe this guy in the video is working on the same logic, I'd be surprised though.
I have been trolling the Satanic forums for opinions from those people, however, I have no intention of visiting a meeting or something like that. I am looking for arguments one way or the other, but more than that, I'm searching for reactions, and all this for a fictional writing project meant to entertain, not convert.
What I believe concerning good and evil is meaningless, the reaction it evokes is more important for my purposes. I must admit this, the following statement you made is also important in all this . . .
Quote:Just remember that the Antichrist is a part of the prophecies, and a lot of people believe Satan will be coming on the scene and he will make people feel exactly like what you are claiming here; that he is our savior and it is he who will "save the world."
It is prophetic that this will fool many people into thinking what you're thinking here.
I seem to be a little late to that party, and ultimately when I am done writing, I hope to present a good argument against this idea I've been going on about, a good enough argument to get people to not fall for it. Whatever counter argument I use, it has to save the protagonist at any rate.
My "reaction" for you then:
I happened to have known a few "witches" in my day. I didn't know it at the time I was around them, but later on in life I realized what they were. I stumbled across the fact that a good bit of my family members were into the dark arts. They all hid behind Christianity, but in the shadows they served Satan. Having grown up around these people I realized how well evil can present itself as something "good." Money is a great place to hide this. People see wealth and they think this person must be doing something right. These wealthy people are worshipped in the sense that the common folk around them all want what the evil wealthy person has. I've watched people hang on a witches every word, as if it were the undeniable word of God. Cleverly disguised wickedness. What haunts me is how much people admire them, and look up to them.
I saw behind the curtain, and the blackness of their hearts, and actions...
I've seen this same evil hiding within the churches...
When Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor. For the kingdom of heaven belongs to them," he was giving us a clue.....one we've missed.
As far as my studies go, I believe Satan was a balance needed for creation itself. Light and dark; and that separation; as I've stated, and so I think we blame the devil for any circumstances that cause us major (or even minor) discomfort.
If we never knew what real pain and suffering were, how would we ever know what real joy is?
If we never got to experience evil, how would we know what good is? (Or how much damage evil causes)
I think it's part of training our spirits (or souls) in preparation for eternal life.
I also think we are trapped here with all these evil spirits and demons and such so that we can actually teach them what love mercy and forgiveness are. I think we interact with demons and evil spirits on a regular basis. When a demon attacks us and we resist and forgive and show mercy then we are inheritely teaching evil what love actually is.
Kind of a double process going on.
I don't believe any of us have it figured out. It is fun and Interesting to speculate with all of this though. In the book of Revelation there is a part when the scrolls are being opened, and a little scroll is opened and John is told not to write down what he sees, and God tells him that He has a "hidden plan" that no one knows. I take this as not even the angels and demons know this hidden plan.
We're all in for a surprise once it's all said and done.
Happy searching.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-17-2024
I found a video that is dead on for this topic. Same guy in the first video, but this one is more specific to your OP.
"God is the devil"
And now that I watched the video, and then read "The secret supper" I wanted to add it to your thought process here.
A definite must read:
http://www.gnosis.org/library/Interrogatio_Johannis.html
The Secret Supper - The Book of John the Evangelist)
With some of the insights I have come across on my own journey, and now with you presenting your thoughts in the OP, I think there might be something to this.
It makes more sense, logically speaking.
I am going to take some time as I search this thought through meditation and prayer. But, I believe there's some truth to this, actually.
End result, the devil created man and woman and all of this material-physical world.
We are meant to break free from it to transcend back into our spiritual selves (or Angelic selves).
To be continued, for me...
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-17-2024
Well then Flicker of Light, thanks and I'll have to watch that video now and try that link.
Damn it all for what I may have stumbled into if this turns out to be more than a mental exercise for a writing project.
Holy crap!
That video was great! Thanks!
I knew that all of this must have been discussed long ago and many times over. Some really good arguments right out of the gate it seems.
It is all very complicated and so simple in a way, but logic and reason rules and there is a good case to be made.
This explains why I feel like a New Testament Christian and like the teaching of Christ, but question the apostles' versions.
This will help resolve things, this is really useful. Now, how to build up the tension before the climax of my story. This gives me a lot to think about and a way to move forward. I can't thank you enough.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-17-2024
(12-17-2024, 08:16 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: Well then Flicker of Light, thanks and I'll have to watch that video now and try that link.
Damn it all for what I may have stumbled into if this turns out to be more than a mental exercise for a writing project.
Holy crap!
That video was great! Thanks!
I knew that all of this must have been discussed long ago and many times over. Some really good arguments right out of the gate it seems.
It is all very complicated and so simple in a way, but logic and reason rules and there is a good case to be made.
This explains why I feel like a New Testament Christian and like the teaching of Christ, but question the apostles' versions.
This will help resolve things, this is really useful. now, how to build up the tension before the climax of my story. This gives me a lot to think about and a way to move forward. I can't thank you enough.
It has lead me to a new gateway of thought.
One that is already connecting dots from many many different questions that have gone unanswered for me.
This was something that was presented to me long ago, but I, of course, dismissed it.
It's worth the thought, for sure.
Cheers
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-17-2024
John of Patmos, or John the Evangelist, or John the Apostle, separate or the same?
This does help me understand the idea in Revelation of a new world after Christ's return.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-17-2024
(12-17-2024, 10:38 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: John of Patmos, or John the Evangelist, or John the Apostle, separate or the same?
This does help me understand the idea in Revelation of a new world after Christ's return.
That is a huge debate amongst the Bible scholar world.
I believe all 3 are the same men, and that is based on the earliest 2nd century texts.
Because of the different writing styles in each there is much debate on that question.
The majority of scholars believe "John the Patmos" was just a reference to John the Evangelist while he was locked away on that Island and receiving prophecy through the Holy Spirit.
But, again, who actually wrote any and all of the texts is still up for debate; unfortunately.
This may be a clue to your OP.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Ninurta - 12-18-2024
This has certainly taken a turn.
Are we now exploring Gnosticism as if it were an answer to... something? Anything?
.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-18-2024
(12-18-2024, 02:27 AM)Ninurta Wrote: This has certainly taken a turn.
Are we now exploring Gnosticism as if it were an answer to... something? Anything?
.
Yes, apparently we're into Gnostic teachings now and that is OK. This really gives me a direction to take this and allow my protagonist a way out of his predicament that isn't the usual tired ending you can end up with when a writer runs out of steam. I'll never forget how disappointed I was after following the TV series "Lost" to its lame conclusion.
I was painting myself into a philosophical corner in some ways and this gets me out of that, or at least I believe it could. Reason, logic, and esoteric knowledge are all playing on my mind and Gnosticism fits like a glove.
I have to give this a lot of thought. I can't move forward without something more to resolve the main issue of my story. I have several things in play and I have to bring it all together, this could make it work.
I've always been writing articles and essays and have jumped into fiction without much more than a desire to tell a story. I'm having to catch up and take so much more into consideration than just the story and characters. Without an experienced editor to help me, I've been relaying on research along with my own creativity and critical thoughts. A real time work in progress, a manuscript that is slowly being presented online a single chapter at a time. A have what I feel is a solid frame work in the form of an outline and extensive notes, but I have to have a solid wrap up in the end.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-18-2024
I told myself a long time ago, "I just want the truth. No matter what that is, as long as it's the Truth."
There have always been some things that have bothered me about the scriptures. When you start reading from the beginning and as soon as God is done creating the whole universe and world, suddenly His next move is to destroy it all with the flood. He states that he "regrets making man" and then destroys all of them except a few? This from an all knowing-all powerful God. First someone slips into his garden and ruins his creation. Next his servants lust after this new creation in their desire for women. They commit an abomination upon this creation that is just getting started. Then to correct this the creation is flooded and destroyed, all just to start over.
Sorry, but that alone does not sound like a competent God. He makes us then immediately regrets it?? Sounds like a God who has emotional issues, rather than a God that is all wise and all powerful. How could this God run an entire universe if he couldn't get this one planet right?
This never made any sense.
For me, I do believe there is a loving competent Lord out there. A creator of all, and even the Father of our Messiah (Jesus).
I believe with all of my heart that we have been severely lied to, and what we know of the story today is that bold song and dance about he who controls the past controls the present. If, say, we all knew that this was the devil's creation, and that everything here was provided by satan, for his own pleasure of trying to "play God," then most of us would step away from it all and live a life more like what Jesus was actually telling us to do. Instead of chasing that almighty dollar (an invention of satan) and start living a life of the Spirit (as the scriptures state). But, no. Everyone (even the church) chases the material as if it holds the key to their happiness.
These are red flags in my eyes.
So, I look where I am not supposed to.
Why?
Because that is where the truth is always hidden.
I do not expect anyone else to follow my path, nor do I want them to. I will blaze my own trail to that Truth.
Others are only getting in the way of that.
-cheers-
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Michigan Swamp Buck - 12-18-2024
I thank you once again Flicker.
I enjoy the company inside the crazy closet. I have been afraid I will begin to believe either I am a candidate for the Happy Ranch or that everyone else is insane and I am the only sane one left. Sane, insane, or somewhere in between, at least I know someone who has some of these same thoughts.
ETA: This statement you made, "I just want the truth. No matter what that is, as long as it's the Truth", should be the motto of my protagonist, it is the driving force of his journey. It has begun to occur to me that honesty is not the best policy and that it would make things so much easier if I lie about what I feel and think just to go along to get along. If I did that though, I would be the most miserable and lonely person in a room full of everyone I know.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - Ninurta - 12-18-2024
Thanks, y'all. I just wanted to make sure all the readers are on the same ground to get the same view.
MSB, may I ask if this is pursuant to your work on a "Kolchak" piece? I ask because it sounds like it might fit into such a narrative.
.
RE: Heaven VS Hell! Where does that leave us? - FlickerOfLight - 12-18-2024
(12-18-2024, 07:26 PM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: I thank you once again Flicker.
I enjoy the company inside the crazy closet. I have been afraid I will begin to believe either I am a candidate for the Happy Ranch or that everyone else is insane and I am the only sane one left. Sane, insane, or somewhere in between, at least I know someone who has some of these same thoughts.
ETA: This statement you made, "I just want the truth. No matter what that is, as long as it's the Truth", should be the motto of my protagonist, it is the driving force of his journey. It has begun to occur to me that honesty is not the best policy and that it would make things so much easier if I lie about what I feel and think just to go along to get along. If I did that though, I would be the most miserable and lonely person in a room full of everyone I know.
I've gotten to the point that I really don't care what others think. And to argue any of it is a waste of energy that can be spent on actually seeking these answers. I don't have any of this figured out as hard fact, and I don't trust anyone who does say they know "the only way."
If I do "believe" anything as a hard fact, it's that, "I believe" we've all been lied to. The scriptures have been changed over time to fit agendas rulers of that particular time.
Those words have been used to control people since they were written.
I see this as, either the devil has fooled us all into believing he is God, or we as people are so misguided by our own misinterpretation of those words that we commit the very sins they warn against committing.
All over "beliefs."
Doesn't add up.
So, I consider...
And yeah, this is the place I bring my crazy.
Be as wise as a serpent, but as gentle as a dove.