(10-28-2023, 12:51 AM)Ninurta Wrote: I'm a simple man, with a simple mind. Because of that, I believe resisting the temptation to overcomplicate things is the path forward, for me at least.

I don't care to categorize demons or angels for that matter. They're all just "spirits" to me. I also don't care to dig too deeply into occult matters or symbolism. They all have a single source, and that's enough for me.

It's because I have a simple mind.

There are people in this world, and their numbers are increasing, that see every negative event as a "demonic possession", but I believe most of them are not. I think that increase in demonology and like subjects is a function of people being bombarded with the subject, since at least the days of "The Exorcist" and "The Amityville Horror" being foisted on unsuspecting audiences. It's an attempt at misdirection, leading the attention away from basics and along unproductive paths. That is the sort of thing that would be aimed at the most productive minds, in an effort to reduce their effectiveness by leading them down a garden path.

If "possession" is the dwelling of a spirit within a human body, then we are all "possessed", most generally by ourselves, our own spirits. What people are seeing as "possession" is the takeover of a human by an evil spirit, and that is exceedingly rare. What is more generally happening is the external influences of evil targeting an individual's own psyche, The spirit is not "taking them over" per se, it's poking and prodding them to go to dark places on their own, and only gives the appearance of a "takeover".

They will sit, and watch, and find the weak points in a person's armor to concentrate upon. Through a combination of psychological attacks, they will assault those weak points until a person starts thinking the bad ideas were their own... but they were not. They were excited by an external influence, rather than a "takeover" as it appears.

A case in point is this current mass shooter who, as of this writing, is still on the run. There has been much made of the fact that he "heard voices", but less well known is that he started hearing these voices at the time when he was given a new sort of hearing aid. The voices he was hearing were not reported as disembodied voices - he thought they were people around him talking trash about him.

And he heard them through his new hearing aid, thinking that it was just working well enough that he could actually hear the people around him better.

It appears to me that his weak point that was concentrated on was his ego. Whomever generated the voices, be they spirit or human, concentrated those voices on his weak points, and kept hammering him with them to the point that he was pushed over the edge, believing he was actually hearing the opinions of real people around him, rather than transmitted or disembodied "voices".

The haranguing kept up until he acted on it, shooting the folks en masse whom he thought were denigrating him.

It could have been "spirits", or it could have been some human agent(s) just transmitting psychological warfare into his NEW hearing aids to fool him into thinking the entire world was against him... a technological rather than a spiritual solution to their experiment.

Either way, it's not an actual "possession" where someone else takes over, it was external pressures against this weak points to make him snap.

And I believe that is the way of what most folks think of as "Possession". It's nothing of the sort, it is just external forces turning an individual against himself, against his own better judgement.

Actual "possession" is extremely rare, although it does happen. I believe that it cannot happen to someone who has already been infused with a "good spirit", what some Christians call "the indwelling of the Holy Spirit". It can't happen because there is no room for the evil spirit to move in,and on top of that the Bible tells us that "God is a jealous God" - pretty sure God is able to man the fort and prevent a takeover of what God already owns.

That doesn't mean that external forces cannot still work on a person's own weak points, whether those forces be spiritual or temporal, and turn them against their own better judgement... but it's still not an actual "possession".

I have heard "voices" twice in my life, but none of them tried to get me to do dumb, evil shit. If they had, my reaction would lost likely have been "Disembodied Voice, if you want that done the pick up the instrument in your own hands and do it your damned self, 'cause I'm having no part of it. Now leave."

I still remember to this day what those voices said, and it has often been a comfort to me in times of trials.

I have also heard "whispers", some recently, but never clearly enough to understand what they or saying, much less to be given orders to do dumb stuff by them. To be honest, I've never been interested enough in what they're saying to investigate and clarify it. I just don't care what they are saying - if they wanted to talk to me, they'd do it loudly enough for me to hear... but they won't do that, because they already know I'd tell them to go pound salt if it were untoward things against my basic character.

That's just my theory, the way I see things. You're mileage may vary, and it's ok if it does. I'm not the Answer Man, nor do I have any illusions that I am. It's just the working theory of how I approach life, both seen and unseeable.

(10-28-2023, 12:44 AM)78Caver Wrote: This might clear a few things up about Demons. Dr. Michael Heiser is a old testament biblical scholar, written books both "The Unseen Realm", "Demons", "Supernatural" & others. By using the Dead Sea scrolls, the Hebrew Bible, Greek Bible, plus other sources. He reframes what we think we know about scripture to what it really says and why.

 As "Moderns" we are so far out in left field it's laughable. Heiser has a mess of fascinating YT's that cover's a stunning amount of biblical material.
Start @ 11:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw3Tu3QjWuk&t=956s

(10-28-2023, 01:21 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: This is perfect. I was hoping to be challenged some, and Ninurta hit it with a good shot.

A fantastic explanation, but let Mr take a guess here. You're a completely logical type thinker. A "nuts and bolts" type mind.
Am I right? Lol

Quote:I could peg that (assuming I'm right) because that is almost dead on of a response that I get from all left hemisphere minds. But, Ninurta, you have an open mind about though. Enough to know it's all there, but like you said, don't give it much more thought than that.
And that is vital in the balance of thought to have those minds to keep our right hemisphere minds somewhat close to earth. 

So, thank you for your addition. I really liked the way you described the influence aspect of it VS an actual "possession." The way you described it was Spot on in my book.

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(10-28-2023, 01:55 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-28-2023, 01:21 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: This is perfect. I was hoping to be challenged some, and Ninurta hit it with a good shot.

A fantastic explanation, but let Mr take a guess here. You're a completely logical type thinker. A "nuts and bolts" type mind.
Am I right? Lol

I like to think I am, but it's not something I can objectively assess for myself - I mean, if I'm batshit crazy, I wouldn't really know that, would I?

So I have to rely on external assessments such as your own here.

Quote:I could peg that (assuming I'm right) because that is almost dead on of a response that I get from all left hemisphere minds. But, Ninurta, you have an open mind about though. Enough to know it's all there, but like you said, don't give it much more thought than that.
And that is vital in the balance of thought to have those minds to keep our right hemisphere minds somewhat close to earth. 

So, thank you for your addition. I really liked the way you described the influence aspect of it VS an actual "possession." The way you described it was Spot on in my book.

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Oh yes, it's all there, and it's all very real, just judging by experiences I've had over the years. I just try not to complicate it beyond a point that my mind can grasp. For example, I don't study any kind of rituals or symbolism, because I believe they have no power on their own - to my way of thinking, they are just focal points for power that comes from within the individual, whether originating there or being "borrowed" from or delegated by another source.

That goes for both "good" rituals and symbols, and "Bad" rituals and symbols. It doesn't matter to me whether they are Church rituals or Witches rituals, the process is the same - they are just focal points for the actual power, which comes from within rather than from without. They serve only to focus concentration for the concentration-challenged who practice them, whether "good" or "bad".

And you're welcome for the post - I sometimes allowed my addled mind to let my fingers do the talking!

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(10-28-2023, 02:28 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: I didn't mean the nuts and bolts thinker comment as an insult. I noticed your analytical mind in other posts, and I've seen the separation in how it's viewed from the analytical mind and the imaginative mindset. I'm the opposite of the purely analytical thought and tend to day dream way too much. But, I have the upmost respect for you and all my analytical thinkers out there. 

Quote:On the flip side. I'd have to disagree with you that those "arts" don't have any real power. The Bible is full of accounts that even the Word of God shows there is power in those arts. 
Take Moses for one example. He threw his staff down and it became a snake. The magicians threw there staffs down and theirs became snakes the same as Moses' staff. Same with the Nile turning to blood. Etc.
Saul went to a medium and had Samuel's spirit raised up to have a conversation with him. And against Samuel's desire to be raised up like that.
In the New Testament Paul was walking through a town and a girl with psychic abilities kept following him around yammering on and on. The Bible says that town was reliant on her predictions ro make money. Whatever she said came true. Paul, annoyed with her turns around and cast a demon out of her.
The Bible states there is power in this magic.
A power we aren't to mess with. (I only read. I would never participate in any of that regardless)

So, I respectfully disagree with you on that. 

(10-28-2023, 04:39 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-28-2023, 02:28 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: I didn't mean the nuts and bolts thinker comment as an insult. I noticed your analytical mind in other posts, and I've seen the separation in how it's viewed from the analytical mind and the imaginative mindset. I'm the opposite of the purely analytical thought and tend to day dream way too much. But, I have the upmost respect for you and all my analytical thinkers out there. 

I'm not offended. I was just pointing out that if I have an internal logic error, I wouldn't know it because it's internal. Therefore I have to rely on external assessments as more objective.

Quote:On the flip side. I'd have to disagree with you that those "arts" don't have any real power. The Bible is full of accounts that even the Word of God shows there is power in those arts. 
Take Moses for one example. He threw his staff down and it became a snake. The magicians threw there staffs down and theirs became snakes the same as Moses' staff. Same with the Nile turning to blood. Etc.
Saul went to a medium and had Samuel's spirit raised up to have a conversation with him. And against Samuel's desire to be raised up like that.
In the New Testament Paul was walking through a town and a girl with psychic abilities kept following him around yammering on and on. The Bible says that town was reliant on her predictions ro make money. Whatever she said came true. Paul, annoyed with her turns around and cast a demon out of her.
The Bible states there is power in this magic.
A power we aren't to mess with. (I only read. I would never participate in any of that regardless)

So, I respectfully disagree with you on that. 

We just have a difference of opinion on the source and routes of the power, not the power itself. It's "there", wherever there may be. The only difference that difference of opinion might make would be in what countermeasures might potentially be effective, and perhaps not even then. We are seeing the same thing, just from different angles, different perspectives.

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(10-28-2023, 01:25 PM)78Caver Wrote: @ Everyone (sorry I'm still learning to use this site)

My starting point has always been, tons of stuff lives alongside us that we generally can't percieve or interact with due to our limited biological senses. It get's real stupid real quick when someone accidentally percieves what's there. 

It's always a "demon" or "evil entity" or type of "evil cryptid". If the person can cite anything from the more obscure ancient cultures then "obviously" the more true it must be! 

JMO most things/entities are just passing thru when you accidentally saw them & it has nothing to do with you. People being people get freaked out an all the commotion "may" cause entities to get interested in them. 99% of the fear response is just that their energy is so radically different from ours we default right to "it's evil". 

JMO they lie. For all we know this is how they interact with each other normally, but we tend to be literal so from ET's to everything else "if they said it, it must be true!". Channeler's are one example. Every now & then they do warn people of a eminent danger but that's more an exception than their normal operating procedure.
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All that out of the way! 
This is why I linked in the Heiser info. Finding any reliable information on the nut's & bolts of the paranormal is difficult if not impossible. I'm not arrogant enough to ignore a good source. I do prefer science avenue's but beggars can't be choosers. 
(spoken respectfully) 

More recently the discoveries by Dr. Garry Nolan regarding unexpected functioning of humans Basal Ganglia" & The Monroe Institutes work with Chris Bledsoe documented with MRI imaging only add's to Heisers information. Advances in IR imaging available to the public is also assisting in educating us about what's lived alongside us all this time.

(10-28-2023, 05:35 PM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: Has anyone read "The Book of Shadows?" I need this explained to me. I have found several different versions, but can't seem to find what I'm looking for, essentially, spell books with guides to rituals.
 I wanted to look at actual rituals to learn how to identify signs of them. What they actually look like and all that. That was the hardest to find. 

What's funny is, after spending all day on this thread yesterday I sat down and watched "Ghoulies" for the first time. It was all about conjuring spirits. A guy performs a conjuring ritual and I could tell they were (loosley) falling along with The Key of Solomon. So, Hollywood has gotten a lot of their ideas from that text.

(10-28-2023, 10:52 PM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-28-2023, 05:35 PM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: Has anyone read "The Book of Shadows?" I need this explained to me. I have found several different versions, but can't seem to find what I'm looking for, essentially, spell books with guides to rituals.
 I wanted to look at actual rituals to learn how to identify signs of them. What they actually look like and all that. That was the hardest to find. 

What's funny is, after spending all day on this thread yesterday I sat down and watched "Ghoulies" for the first time. It was all about conjuring spirits. A guy performs a conjuring ritual and I could tell they were (loosley) falling along with The Key of Solomon. So, Hollywood has gotten a lot of their ideas from that text.

I have not. I've seen them, but never read one. There isn't any one "The Book of Shadows". They re a record of witches experiences, incantations, spells, and rituals, and there is one for each lineage of witches. They are hand-written, and passed down from generation to generation, each one adding their own experiences to be passed on to future generations. Witches are pretty secretive with them, and guard them jealously.

There are "The Book of Shadows" available in print, at bookstores, but they are all, every one of them, fake. They are written by what I call "Barnes and Noble Witches", for other Barnes and Noble Witches, and are all, every one, made-up BS just to make a buck. Because of that, they are very, very dangerous to place any credence in.

My step-daughter, the daughter of my third wife, was a "Barnes and Noble Witch". She put her faith in bookstore incantations, and would frequently bring "things" forth that she could not then get rid of, because all of her knowledge was faulty, coming as it did from bookstore incantations. Her mother was a "real witch", a hereditary witch, but she has rejected it years ago and did not fool with it.  Nor did she pass on her knowledge, such that it was, to the next generation, which is why her daughter became a Barnes and Noble Witch. That was her only available source of supposed knowledge, and it was completely faulty.

So the step-daughter used to do crazy stuff that brought forth "things" that she could not deal with. The first few times, I got rid of the negatives myself, and warned her not to fool with such things any more, but she would not heed the warnings, and then just kept doing it. SO I stopped getting rid of the "things", and let them do as the would.

Havoc ensued. She got herself completely surrounded by negatives. I actually have audio and video recordings she made of some of it, in an effort to elicit my sympathy so that I'd get rid of it for her, but I steadfastly refused, and told her the only way she would learn it seemed was to live it, so live it she would. Talking to her and warning her did no good. Experience can be the best teacher.

Oddly, perhaps, the "things" she brought forth never, ever, bothered me. I've seen some of it in passing, but they would never approach me nor bother me. I eventually left that toxic environment when it got too crazy, but I never would get rid of or "banish" stuff for her any more. She had to learn the hard way.

I don't know if she ever learned or not, because I bailed out of it. Her mother died around 5 or 6 years after I bailed, and I don't know what of. Her health appears to have just gone downhill fast until she was no more. Never dug deep enough to find out why, because when I'm done, I'm done. If that's what they wanted to live in, it wasn't for me to keep rescuing them. Too bad, so sad.

So, while there are actual "Books of Shadows", the ones you can actually get your hands on don't contain anything useful, only harmful things that will bite you in the ass if fooled around with.

As an end note, the mountain witches we have around here, in dwindling numbers these days since the new generations are relying more and more on technology, do not keep Books of Shadows to the best of my knowledge. Everything they know is passed down orally, by word of mouth, and never written down anywhere.

I guess that's one way to keep what they know or think they know out of Barnes and Nobles stores.

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(10-28-2023, 11:48 PM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: That is a fantastic cautionary tale. 

As far as the book of shadows, that's what I thought I was seeing. I never really could track down any one of them that looked "real" and not B&N (as you put it) fake or something for the "weekend warrior witch."

Now that you mentioned the passing that book down, and how jealousy it is guarded in secret, I am really starting to wonder if I have  already observed one of them, in my family's possession a long time ago. 
Something an aunt had one day that she quickly dismissed. And yeah, an odd looking journal of sorts with (wouldn't ya know it) symbols on it.

There was a time when the topic of getting rid of a "ghost" came up. I have all kinds of paranormal activities going on in my home (they don't bother me either. They will listen to me tho and leave when i tell them). Well, my aunt, in a snap a finger when the subject came up she knew exactly what to do and sprang into action.
She, herself was very much into the paranormal, but I know she wasn't a witch. I believe it was their granny.

So wow, you have a good bit of experience with this stuff as well. 
Cheers to that lol

Quote:Fear", or more properly the lack of it, is the key I think. There are those spooks around who, if they find out they can get under your skin, will. If they find out they can't, then they just leave you alone or just plain leave for greener pastures. Either way, they seem to be less troublesome if they find they can't excite you in any way

(10-29-2023, 01:38 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote:

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Quick side note: "brain-stain" had me rollin)

Quote:Although I am ike you, Ninurta, I can deal with and understand these things. My mom on the other hand is terrified of things like that. Fear is her main drive. Panic and fear, actually. So whatever it is I'm dealing with (I haven't peg exactly what it is yet) has latched onto her. From hearing her stories, I also think it's been with her a very long time.
A tid bit that fits into the puzzle is, there is a ton of money on that side of the family. I think that ties into all of this. I don't believe I'm dealing with something that's just a pushover. 

I, myself, can deal with it. Just not sure what to do for her.

(10-29-2023, 02:39 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(10-29-2023, 01:38 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote:

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Quick side note: "brain-stain" had me rollin)

That's the most accurately descriptive term I could think of. When he suicided, it blew bits of brain in a shotgun pattern on the ceiling, hence "brain stain". The official police report termed it suicide over despondency that his wife had left him. I've always wondered 1) what prompted his wife to leave - did it have anything to do with the "haunting"? and 2) was his suicide prompted by some external "oppression" due to the haint? I reckon we'll never know.

Quote:Although I am ike you, Ninurta, I can deal with and understand these things. My mom on the other hand is terrified of things like that. Fear is her main drive. Panic and fear, actually. So whatever it is I'm dealing with (I haven't peg exactly what it is yet) has latched onto her. From hearing her stories, I also think it's been with her a very long time.
A tid bit that fits into the puzzle is, there is a ton of money on that side of the family. I think that ties into all of this. I don't believe I'm dealing with something that's just a pushover. 

I, myself, can deal with it. Just not sure what to do for her.

I can commiserate. My first wife had... let's call them "issues". She would occasionally go into what I can only call a "trance" state. Her eyes would roll back into her head like she was trying to look at her own brain, and while in that state she would see "things". One was a very bright ball of light that she wanted to follow. Where that would have led I have no idea, as I disallowed it. I also don't know if it was an angel, a demon, or a hallucination. I will note here, however, that "Lucifer" means "Light-Bringer", and that Satan has been called "an angel of light". But other entities, both "good" and "bad", have also been described similarly, so I just don't know.

She was also subject to sudden outbursts of anger and violence. Once I had to hold her with her arms pinned to her sides in a bear-hug for two solid hours before she calmed down and was no longer a danger to either me or herself.

I never was able to rid her of whatever it was, but I also didn't know then what I do know now. After we split up, she married a preacher, and as far as I know they lived happily ever after. I know she is still living - her family lives in this area - but I don't know what her current state is, since I've not spoken to her in 30 years. I do hope she eventually found peace.

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Quote:I still remember, in one of these exorcisms in Rome, the body began to float in front of me.

Quote:The levitation began, and the body was about a foot out of the chair, and I'm looking at this in disbelief, like, what in the world is going on here? How is it possible? And then the priest who's training me, he just takes his hand and puts it on the head of the body and pushes the person back into the chair, and continues to pray.

Quote:He never paused for a moment. He just kind of glanced over, looked at it, and then just took his hand and put it on the head of the person and pushed them down and just continued to pray.

Quote:Almost like business as usual.

Quote:I've seen all of these things, so yeah, I do think movies get it right. 

Quote:Demons can do certain things that we would just find to be completely not possible. I've seen when demons manifest, eyes roll in the back of the head, there's growling and snarling, foaming at the mouth and whatnot.

Quote:The voice becomes deeper and more authoritative; strong, horrible odors, stenches that are coming from the person that's possessed. I've witnessed levitation, where demons cause the body to float.

Quote:I've seen when demons manifest, the person's body will drop to the floor and slither like a snake. I've seen when manifestations begin, the face becomes contorted, and even sometimes, the tongue has come out like a snake.

(10-29-2023, 02:59 AM)BodhisattvaStyle Wrote: BTW the camera clips you shared were cool. The second one I couldn't see anything. I did hear that groan tho in the first one. That's a sound I've heard before. I like to think of those orbs as spirits. Probably good ones since I I don't remember hearing anything bad That's ever associated with them. I think they are beautiful. I've personally have never seen one.

(10-29-2023, 06:40 PM)78Caver Wrote: So everyone else has had some excitement too. 
Is it me or did anyone else notice the Orb seemed to light up the sheds? 

Here, best as I can tell things have always been "off". Looked up history of the area but came up with nothing. Para-stuff never phazed us so it was non-issue, usually. It "seems" to run in cycles over years not months. You'd think I'd pay more attention but I'm beyond jaded at this point. 

Earlier this week had all manner of ruckus going on outside. Bangs on front of house, sounded like my trash can got slammed onto cement, voices talking but not in any language I know, definately felt what can only be described as infrasound but not directed at me. 
More active than it's been in awhile.

Have found that "no reaction" is usually the best way to proceed but I really had to rule out 
human activity so hit all the exterior lights. Didn't see squat and curiously the neighbors motion lights didn't ever come on. They aren't close to me, but they're aimed wrong so always come on when I go in or out at night. I think it's nice actually. Easier to navigate my porch stairs. 

Anyhow, after I hit the lights it got quiet for awhile but definately got the impression there was more bickering between "whatever". Looked around when I left for work the next morning but saw no evidence of drama. Came home in daylight walked all around & still saw no evidence to account for all the racket. ???? A lack of physical evidence never ceases to piss me off. 

One of the better weirdness's was had a glowing white human shaped figure running thru my front yard. Three or four times that week had gotten up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom. Had caught "something" out of the corner of my eye out the front window, but since I blame raccoons for everything, I ignored it. Just thought maybe it was car headlights or something? Seriously, 1 1/2 hours before your alarm goes of you'd be surprised at how much I don't care.

Finally got irked enough the last night I sped over to the front window & looked. Well damn!
Glowing humanoid figure running across my front yard down the drive & disappeared at the road. It illuminated my vehicle, the ground around it, any bushes it ran past. Alrighty then! 
That was the last time I saw it, but being a "stickler" I'd of dismissed it had it not illuminated things around it. 
This is why I was curious about your Orb video. Not many video's of them show other physical objects being illuminated. 

Dunno if any of this even fits here since it's neither demonic or particularly evil?