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+--- Thread: I got an email today.... (/showthread.php?tid=1287)
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RE: I got an email today.... - Ninurta - 09-30-2023
(09-30-2023, 02:30 PM)Snarl Wrote: I'd hate to have to lug around a thousand pounds of tobacky (damn ... that's a lot of leaf!!) to any potential trade ... which might just fall through.
Fair enough, but by the same token, I'd be a little leery of hauling around a year's worth of wages in gold, too. Might as well put a sign on you back with a big bull's eye that reads "raiders, strike here". Raiders like shinies, too, and shinies are easier to carry off and hide.
Quote:Best to have some trade-worthy metals on hand for SHTF.
Sound advice. What I'm saying is that the only "trade worthy metals" at this station will be either lead, or steel if I can get a forge going. Anyone bringing gold or silver for trade in tangible goods here just needs to keep traveling, because there is nothing I can do with those.They might find a jeweler down the road that can do something with them.
You're thinking in terms of tie-wearing commerce, and I'm thinking in terms of day to day survival. It's just a different set of outlooks, aiming at a different set of outcomes.
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RE: I got an email today.... - Snarl - 10-02-2023
(09-30-2023, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote: What I'm saying is that the only "trade worthy metals" at this station will be either lead, or steel if I can get a forge going.
I've built a couple to melt aluminum and lead. It always amazed me how much aluminum it took to pour a full ingot. It amazed me how heavy lead was. I mostly stopped messing with it because I didn't have anything I could do with it. If you're gonna try ... go BIG. Least time I checked, crucibles were expensive as all get out.
This guy made a good one:
I did a bunch of reloading work this weekend. None of it consisted of casting bullets. I have before ... but it's too much time making stuff at that level.
RE: I got an email today.... - Ninurta - 10-02-2023
(10-02-2023, 04:10 AM)Snarl Wrote:(09-30-2023, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote: What I'm saying is that the only "trade worthy metals" at this station will be either lead, or steel if I can get a forge going.
I've built a couple to melt aluminum and lead. It always amazed me how much aluminum it took to pour a full ingot. It amazed me how heavy lead was. I mostly stopped messing with it because I didn't have anything I could do with it. If you're gonna try ... go BIG. Least time I checked, crucibles were expensive as all get out.
This guy made a good one:
I did a bunch of reloading work this weekend. None of it consisted of casting bullets. I have before ... but it's too much time making stuff at that level.
I think aluminum ingots pretty much have to be re-melted and cast to shape. Then you run into the problem of having to make the molds, too. About all we ever used aluminum for was the hames on a horse collar, and we got those already formed.
I need to cast some more bullets, but fell short this year because it never really got hot enough outside for me to be comfortable casting any, so I've only got a few Colt bullets left. I've got scads of the Richmond Labs pattern, but they'll have to be melted down and re-cast as the Colt pattern. The RL are .390 diameter, and it's a real pain in the ass to get them stuffed into a chamber - I've got to practically stand on the loading lever to get them in. The Colt pattern are .380 diameter, so they shave a little easier during loading. The chambers are, I think, about .375.
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RE: I got an email today.... - Snarl - 10-02-2023
(10-02-2023, 08:21 PM)Ninurta Wrote:(10-02-2023, 04:10 AM)Snarl Wrote:(09-30-2023, 05:55 PM)Ninurta Wrote: What I'm saying is that the only "trade worthy metals" at this station will be either lead, or steel if I can get a forge going.
I did a bunch of reloading work this weekend. None of it consisted of casting bullets. I have before ... but it's too much time making stuff at that level.
I've got scads of the Richmond Labs pattern, but they'll have to be melted down and re-cast as the Colt pattern.
The only caliber I cast bullets for was the .38/.357. I only have a 5 shot revolver in that caliber, so it's better for me to just shell out the bucks for a box of 500 from Berry's.
The ingots? I spent a bit of time scrounging up and sorting out all that lead ... not to mention melting it down and cleaning it up. Far less aluminum. I guess I'll just leave 'em lay unless somebody I know asks to have 'em. Sure ain't packin' it up if/when we move from here.
RE: I got an email today.... - Ninurta - 10-02-2023
(10-02-2023, 10:51 PM)Snarl Wrote: The only caliber I cast bullets for was the .38/.357. I only have a 5 shot revolver in that caliber, so it's better for me to just shell out the bucks for a box of 500 from Berry's.
The ingots? I spent a bit of time scrounging up and sorting out all that lead ... not to mention melting it down and cleaning it up. Far less aluminum. I guess I'll just leave 'em lay unless somebody I know asks to have 'em. Sure ain't packin' it up if/when we move from here.
These are for a 6 shot black powder revolver, .36 caliber. They should be a bit oversized to insure a good lead to chamber seal to prevent chain fires, but that .390 is just a bit too much. .375 seems to work best - shaves off a tiny ring of lead, seals the chamber tight.
This critter ain't one I can find pre-packaged ammo for. They stopped making that probably 120 years ago. If you could find it now, it'd cost a king's ransom, since they ALL have to be hand-loaded now.
I'm not hurting for ammo for it, since I still have around 300 .375 lead balls and a couple pounds of Triple-Seven powder which can all be hand loaded straight into the chambers in a pinch, but I like making the cartridges as they are a good bit more convenient and easier to load. Less muss, less fuss. Just drop the whole cartridge into the chamber, hit it with the rammer, and move on to the next.
I only make them up about 12-24 rounds at a time, since I've only got 4 wooden cartridge boxes to pack them into, and don't have the equipment to make any more boxes. I need to find someone with a wood shop to crank out a few more of them with the right dimensions. I can buy them from overseas, but they're about 20 bucks a throw for a 1/2 inch by 3 inch by 2 inch block of wood with 6 or 7 holes bored in each one to hold the cartridges and maybe a sleeve of caps for them. That's just not cost-effective. The Yankee boxes only have 6 holes, no cap hole, but they have a lid to cover the top of the cartridges too. The Confederate boxes have no lid, but they have 7 holes to hold 6 cartridges and a paper-wrapped sleeve of caps. Life is full of trade-offs!
ETA: I found one company that sells pre-rolled cartridges of the sort I make. They sell them for about 2.50/ round, but their cartridges have round balls rather than the conicals I use,and they only have 14 gr FFFg black powder, whereas I use 17 gr. FFFg Triple Seven, so mine shoot hotter... and they only cost me about 20 cents a round to make, depending on where I get the lead. Plenty markup in them thar cartridges!
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RE: I got an email today.... - Snarl - 10-03-2023
(10-02-2023, 11:45 PM)Ninurta Wrote: I need to find someone with a wood shop to crank out a few more of them with the right dimensions. I can buy them from overseas, but they're about 20 bucks a throw for a 1/2 inch by 3 inch by 2 inch block of wood with 6 or 7 holes bored in each one to hold the cartridges and maybe a sleeve of caps for them. That's just not cost-effective. The Yankee boxes only have 6 holes, no cap hole, but they have a lid to cover the top of the cartridges too. The Confederate boxes have no lid, but they have 7 holes to hold 6 cartridges and a paper-wrapped sleeve of caps. Life is full of trade-offs!
I might be able to help you out there. Have you got pictures of what you want and measurements? Think about the whole plan: the wood you like, the stain you like ... any kind of nuance ... hardware ... I dunno ... anything you can think of.
RE: I got an email today.... - Ninurta - 10-03-2023
(10-03-2023, 12:09 AM)Snarl Wrote:(10-02-2023, 11:45 PM)Ninurta Wrote: I need to find someone with a wood shop to crank out a few more of them with the right dimensions. I can buy them from overseas, but they're about 20 bucks a throw for a 1/2 inch by 3 inch by 2 inch block of wood with 6 or 7 holes bored in each one to hold the cartridges and maybe a sleeve of caps for them. That's just not cost-effective. The Yankee boxes only have 6 holes, no cap hole, but they have a lid to cover the top of the cartridges too. The Confederate boxes have no lid, but they have 7 holes to hold 6 cartridges and a paper-wrapped sleeve of caps. Life is full of trade-offs!
I might be able to help you out there. Have you got pictures of what you want and measurements? Think about the whole plan: the wood you like, the stain you like ... any kind of nuance ... hardware ... I dunno ... anything you can think of.
I have drawings with measurements somewhere, but can crank out another set without a problem. They're pretty basic - no varnish, no finish at all, just raw wood blocks with holes in them. The main problem with the ones I got overseas (Hungary) is that the holes are bored too small (diameter) to hold the Richmond Labs cartridges, even though they are labeled for them. The "Yankee" boxes with the lids only have a strip pf linen glued to the box for a lid hinge.
Pretty basic stuff for them to be charging 20 bucks a throw on!
These are the ones I'm using now:
https://capandball.com/termek/authentic-richmond-arsenal-revolver-paper-cartridge-box-36/
https://capandball.com/termek/authentic-cal-civil-war-revolver-cartridge-box-for-combustible-envelope-cartridges-36/
It looks like he dropped his prices for them - they're $8.93 each now. still kinda pricey, considering that all I'm really looking for is the wood block, not the cardboard sleeve. I can just wrap 'em up in butcher's paper and wax that to weatherproof it better than a cardboard sleeve.
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RE: I got an email today.... - Snarl - 10-03-2023
(10-03-2023, 12:52 AM)Ninurta Wrote:(10-03-2023, 12:09 AM)Snarl Wrote:(10-02-2023, 11:45 PM)Ninurta Wrote: I need to find someone with a wood shop to crank out a few more of them with the right dimensions. I can buy them from overseas, but they're about 20 bucks a throw for a 1/2 inch by 3 inch by 2 inch block of wood with 6 or 7 holes bored in each one to hold the cartridges and maybe a sleeve of caps for them. That's just not cost-effective. The Yankee boxes only have 6 holes, no cap hole, but they have a lid to cover the top of the cartridges too. The Confederate boxes have no lid, but they have 7 holes to hold 6 cartridges and a paper-wrapped sleeve of caps. Life is full of trade-offs!
I might be able to help you out there. Have you got pictures of what you want and measurements? Think about the whole plan: the wood you like, the stain you like ... any kind of nuance ... hardware ... I dunno ... anything you can think of.
I have drawings with measurements somewhere, but can crank out another set without a problem. They're pretty basic - no varnish, no finish at all, just raw wood blocks with holes in them. The main problem with the ones I got overseas (Hungary) is that the holes are bored too small (diameter) to hold the Richmond Labs cartridges, even though they are labeled for them. The "Yankee" boxes with the lids only have a strip pf linen glued to the box for a lid hinge.
Pretty basic stuff for them to be charging 20 bucks a throw on!
It looks like he dropped his prices for them - they're $8.93 each now. still kinda pricey, considering that all I'm really looking for is the wood block, not the cardboard sleeve. I can just wrap 'em up in butcher's paper and wax that to weatherproof it better than a cardboard sleeve.
20 bucks sounds like it 'would be' a pretty good deal. There's more than a bit of touch labor in there.
Are those just straight holes? What's the depth? It'll be easier if there's no lid. You sure you don't want it hinged? If you want a lid ... I'm gonna make you attach it if there's glue involved. LOL
I'm betting you'd like a better wood than pine too. Something bordering on a collectible item. A dark stain would look nice on walnut.
What'll it be, Sir?
RE: I got an email today.... - Ninurta - 10-04-2023
(10-03-2023, 02:23 PM)Snarl Wrote: 20 bucks sounds like it 'would be' a pretty good deal. There's more than a bit of touch labor in there.
Are those just straight holes? What's the depth? It'll be easier if there's no lid. You sure you don't want it hinged? If you want a lid ... I'm gonna make you attach it if there's glue involved. LOL
I'm betting you'd like a better wood than pine too. Something bordering on a collectible item. A dark stain would look nice on walnut.
What'll it be, Sir?
I got out all my high-tech measuring equipment (steel rule and a set of calipers) and measured the 7-hole block - the one without a lid.
3 3/4 in long
1 9/16 in high
9/16 in wide
The holes are 13/32 dia 1 1/4 deep
Now as I mentioned above, those dimensions don't really fit the bullets they were made for. I can squeeze a bullet into the holes if it's bare, and can tap it down, but a naked bullet ain't a cartridge. The cartridge "envelopes" (casings) are made of nitrated paper, nitrated so that it'll burn to mostly ash upon firing, and not foul the chambers or the bore with bits of paper. I nitrate the paper myself with potassium nitrate (stump remover for working folks that ain't scientists), and the paper I use is coffee filters, rather than cigarette papers, so it's a little heavier than the cigarette papers.
Because of the thickness of the paper added to the bullet, as well as the layer of glue to hold it there, the holes are not big enough around to allow cartridges in. So unless I'm using round balls or Colt pattern bullets, I don't use those blocks.
I think final dimensions that would work would increase a little bit, as follows:
3 7/8 in long ( 3 15/16, see below)
1 9/16 in high
5/8 in wide
holes 7/16 dia 1 1/4 deep
But to put seven 7/16 inch holes in it, evenly spaced on 9/16 inch centers, would take a block 3 15/16 inches long. That 7th hole is pretty important. The leather cartridge boxes for my belt will hold 3 of those blocks, wrapped and loaded, but that leaves no room for a tin of caps, so caps for the cartridges go into that 7th hole.
Originally, they were made out of whatever lumber the sawmill had handy, so mostly pine, but I'm sure some walnut, chestnut, and other stuff got mixed in occasionally, too. But the pine is easiest to work, so it was preferred..
The hinged boxes are more complicated. They're 3 1/8 inches long, since they've only got 6 holes, and the hole in the body block is shorter, because the bullet sticks out, and is covered by the lid - meaning the lids have to have matching holes. Looks to me like they'd be a pain in the ass to make, not to mention not having any place to keep the caps. If I were going to make that sort for myself, I'd just bore the hole through, then saw off the cap part and cap that cap with a thin strip of wood. Much easier and more versatile to just go with the 7 hole basic blocks, and "lid" it with the paper wrapping to hold everything in place.
To wrap 'em, a jig is handy. it's just a block of wood with upright sides on it sized to hold a sheet of wrapping paper and the block itself. You lay the paper in, then a pull string to tear the paper open with, then a loaded wood block of cartridges. wrap the string around the block so that an end hangs out, fold the paper over it and glue the ends, making sure the pull string is available, and let it dry. Wax it up to weatherproof it, slap on a label, and you're done.
They used to hire women and kids to do the cartridge making and packing. Colt's munitions plant in Connecticut blew up during the Civil War (they believe one of the boys was trying to light a smoke - in a powder house no less!) and killed a bunch of them.
What would you estimate a few of those 7-hole boxes with the bigger dimensionss to cost?
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RE: I got an email today.... - Snarl - 10-04-2023
(10-04-2023, 03:14 AM)Ninurta Wrote: What would you estimate a few of those 7-hole boxes with the bigger dimensions to cost?
Time.
RE: I got an email today.... - Snarl - 10-04-2023
Quick thoughts:
Sounds to me like you've got 'some' of these boxes on-hand, but they're not quite useable due to the diameter of the holes that were originally drilled. It 'sounds' like ... if those diameters were slightly increased , you'd be in business. Have you thought about reaming them out ... slowly and deliberately?
It looked to me like those 'shells' had an almost ice cream cone taper to them. It also 'sounds' to me as though there may be some variance in the diameter of what goes into the holes based on your desired fabrication process.
If I had your boxes and shells, this is what I'd do:
- wrap the boxes in leather
- mount in my vice
- get some high grit sandpaper ... you want a very smooth surface ... me personally I'd go with 800 grit ... but, that's just me. 300 or 400 might work for someone else.
- glue a 1/4" wide by 2" long strip of sandpaper to a finishing nail just under the nail head
- you'll fold that strip in half and glue the back to itself and the nail stem
- it's the tips of the sandpaper strip that are going to do the job
- stick the pointy end of the nail into a hand drill
- keeping the nailhead on center ... ream out the holes to the desired diameter
Pine is soft. This process will take just a few seconds and you'll get the custom diameter you actually desire. If you've not tried something like this before, here's a tip: keep your drill running at a slow and steady speed and count the number of reaming strokes required to get to your desired diameter. People are always careful with the first hole and overdo it down the line. Since you can't put material back, make a practice of stopping and checking frequently. And, focus like Hell on keeping the nail as close to dead center of the hole as possible.