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Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Grace - 09-26-2023
@"Ninurta"#2 and I went out to eat at the Chinese buffet after my doctors appointment this month and sitting behind us were a couple young men. Being seated so closely I could overhear their conversation quite easily.
One was sitting there complaining about needing to find another job that had an atmosphere that was politically more to his liking because he was sick and tired of "the way it is today", this gentleman noted. He said it used to be "I think, therefore I am", but now it's more like "I have a thought, therefore I must subject you to it".
I thought at the time, and later told Ninurta that "subjecting others to one's thoughts used to be called a "conversation" " now it's called subjection as if its somehow an oppression and an abuse.
I mean, agree or disagree but standing around the water cooler people are going to attempt to engage in conversation. You are allowed to disagree with someone and/or share your own views in return. It's called conversation when you do this.
I simply CANNOT understand people who cannot manage a simple conversation with someone... people who don't even understand what a conversation even is and looks like. I'm still in shock to have heard this out of the mouth of a real live person.
I noticed an article this morning talking about the same thing as it's being noticed by businesses everywhere. To quote from the article:
Quote:[British television] Channel 4’s CEO, Alex Mahon, complained that the youngest generation to enter the workforce doesn't have the skills to debate, disagree, or work alongside people with different opinions.Outside Link to Article on Yahoo
“What we are seeing with young people who come into the workplace, Gen Z, particularly post-pandemic and with this concentration of short-form content, is that they haven’t got the skills to debate things,” Mahon said at the Royal Television Society conference in Cambridge according to multiple outlets, including the Telegraph.
If this is what has occurred, that people got so far into their online bubbles that they can't deal with real life what are we to do to resolve the situation?
How do we re-integrate people into society?
These attitudes are affecting the free exchange of ideas online, we've seen that for years now, and it's bleeding into real life in a very serious way when people can't even deal with water cooler conversation or even recognize it as conversation.
If we cannot integrate them back into real life we are well and truly lost as a people I fear. However - if we can reintroduce them and integrate them into real life where it's not some imaginary utopia where everyone holds the same views - then we might have a chance in the coming storm.
What are everyone's thoughts about this topic? Are you all seeing this in your personal interactions with people?
Do you think it may also affect you?
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - NightskyeB4Dawn - 09-26-2023
We are heading towards a dystopia whether nature driven or man made.
The younger generations have created a world of illusion so deep that they have developed a world where they find it difficult to socialize or fellowship face to face. Their comfort zones are online safe spaces were they can filter in what pleases them, or filter out that which displeases them.
Where they can manufacture the fantasy, anime, avatars of their inner minds. They have restructured that place that once was creativity’s birth place, which is now and an endless pit of xeroxed shorts that play endlessly in memes and Ticktocks.
We will never be able to rein this nightmare we created in. The adage “The way to hell is paved with good intentions”, has never been truer.
The only way out is the way we have always done it. I just hope that the next civilization learns from our screw ups, and use those sticks and stones to build a community instead of killing each other, and I hope they learn never, ever, demand a king.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Snarl - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 11:59 AM)Grace Wrote: I simply CANNOT understand people who cannot manage a simple conversation with someone... people who don't even understand what a conversation even is and looks like. I'm still in shock to have heard this out of the mouth of a real live person.
I noticed an article this morning talking about the same thing as it's being noticed by businesses everywhere. To quote from the article:
Quote:[British television] Channel 4’s CEO, Alex Mahon, complained that the youngest generation to enter the workforce doesn't have the skills to debate, disagree, or work alongside people with different opinions.
If this is what has occurred, that people got so far into their online bubbles that they can't deal with real life what are we to do to resolve the situation?
How do we re-integrate people into society?
If we cannot integrate them back into real life we are well and truly lost as a people I fear. However - if we can reintroduce them and integrate them into real life where it's not some imaginary utopia where everyone holds the same views - then we might have a chance in the coming storm.
What are everyone's thoughts about this topic? Are you all seeing this in your personal interactions with people?
Do you think it may also affect you?
Most of the day I'm away from other people. I'll chat with the wife. She's more than kind'a liberal, so there are topics we both know are out of bounds. I'll talk to the guys who help me out when they're here, but that's all business. Sometimes ... I'll go to church and 'listen' to what other men are thinking about these days. I like the bright little kids ... not so much the brooding ones. Seems there are more bright ones these days.
But ... the thing I noticed with conversation: it's not happening when people have their phones in their hands. I'm _almost_ well known for not talking to people who have their cell phones out. I know people who think my behavior in that regard is rude. Then their phones jingle or buzz and they can't help but rudely allow it to interrupt whatever they're doing.
Different values it seems.
I'm not so concerned with how things are going with younger folks. Every job I ever had (except for maybe one) I had to figure out how to make it happen on my own. And, every time I ever left a job somebody came along behind me and the wheels kept turning.
I saw stuff turning south when Common Core became a thing in schools. The 'how' of people being educated went over a cliff. They ought'a take these _teachers_ that are in front of a class and make them sit down and take a test. Fail ... and you're fucking fired. And Fucking Fired means you are never allowed back into the education system EVER again. What people seem to be missing out on is: not only are our teachers DUMB ... they're uneducated themselves.
My wife saw to it that both of our kids were learning what they needed to in elementary school. We paid for them to attend Korean Hagwan (private tutoring) up through high school. They both went on to college and failed at it miserably. Not because they were dumb, but because American Education is 'designed' to fail the kids at every level ... and has been that way now for at least 30 years (maybe 40). Scary thing is my son (who is almost 40 now) has given up on attaining the prestige of being named a college grad. The daughter is on her way through a PA program ... and should be good-to-go.
But, who knows?
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - NightskyeB4Dawn - 09-26-2023
College and university is not a guaranteed avenue to success anymore. They represent more of a status than an income. Degrees are 2 cents a peck and does not indicate one’s level of intelligence or ability.
I encourage the young folk I know to learn a necessary skill, and become excellent at it.
Even if you don’t have a job, you can always barter your trade for money, food, or shelter. Choose a skill that folk will always need regardless of the time, place, or situation.
If you have children, pay close attention to how the wealthy are educating their children. For years I encouraged young folk to learn Chinese. It was no surprise to me when I found out most of the prestigious and wealthy schools had Chinese in their standard curriculum.
Know thine enemy. You can bet that China makes sure that its wealthy citizens can speak English.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Snarl - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 03:35 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: You can bet that China makes sure that its wealthy citizens can speak English.
Fun Fact: China has the largest English speaking population on Earth.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - ABNARTY - 09-26-2023
Yes. The inability to debate something has frustrated me. Or even the concept of discussion is foreign to many.
At first I thought it was me. Maybe I am getting too old or too weird. Maybe I am crazy. But I think I am OK. At least mostly.
Folks, especially younger folks, want to stick everybody/everything in a category with predetermined characteristics. And then they stop thinking. There is no context or nuance. Anything that runs contrary to that prescribed narrative is wrong or evil. And the speaker is a fascist. End of story.
How do they plan on solving real world problems? Or working with other people? Or even understanding their own lives?
It is chilling.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Grace - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 01:49 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: We are heading toward a dystopia...
We will never be able to rein this nightmare we created in. The adage “The way to hell is paved with good intentions”, has never been truer.
The only way out is the way we have always done it. I just hope that the next civilization learns from our screw ups, and use those sticks and stones to build a community instead of killing each other, and I hope they learn never, ever, demand a king.
While it is easy to say we will never reign in the nightmare we created I have to say the negative results will be a certainty if we don't even try to change it.
Society often finds itself at one extreme or another but the one thing we always manage to do is self correct in one way or another.
As the highly intelligent beings that humanity has become, I would hope at the least to save one from the insanity.
Lol... although maybe what humanity is bouncing back from right now is intelligence itself. Wouldn't that be ironic.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Infolurker - 09-26-2023
Sounds like trying to deprogram or reason with a "cult" member.
That is what they have done to them BTW.
Multiple years of indoctrination, telling them their unhealthy obsessions are normal, and that anyone who disagrees with them (really the disagrees with the cult group think) is not to be listened to, better yet, ban them from conversation unless they agree with the cult's answers.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Ninurta - 09-26-2023
There have always been, at least within my experience, those whose opinions could brook no dissent. What we are seeing now, I think, is the increase of those types of people. Once upon a time, when I was younger, there were two subjects one did not breach in polite company - religion and politics. The reason for that prohibition is that those two subjects tend to allow for no dissenting opinion, and tempers flare during their discussion rather quickly if dissent is expressed.
What we seem to be seeing now is that EVERYTHING is starting to fall under one or the other of those two headings, sometimes both, and therefore conversation has been correspondingly truncated to keep it within those two subject areas, which has considerably shrunk the common area where discussion used to take place.
That is the result of confusing social issues with political issues (from both sides of the political spectrum) and thinking that morality can be legislated. It cannot. One's moral compass comes from within, and cannot be imposed from without. That attempt just leads to clashes and frictions. Religion and politics should NEVER be mixed, no matter what your politics or religion are. We are seeing the results of that attempt right now, before our very eyes.
Politics are becoming more polarized as Left Wing authoritarian philosophies become more prevalent in what was once a freedom-loving nation The clash between those two opposing stances is one of the things we are seeing that is being taken as an inability to converse... and literally everything is becoming a political football, where dissent cannot be allowed - from either side.
Compounding that is the fact that many things that were always secular discussions are taking on the aura of religious thought, where deviation from the proposed story line cannot be allowed. "Climate change" is one of those "New Religions", and is a political football as well. Bad combination. When a subject cannot be questioned, cannot bear any criticism, it has moved from the area of civil discussion into the realm of religious experience, regardless of the "god" being venerated in it.
Taken all together, this means that the areas available for open discussion are increasingly shrinking, with the net result that people cannot converse with one another any more. They have less and less "common ground" to build a discussion upon. Instead, we are increasingly being separated into tribalized camps and there is less and less of an ability to converse with anyone in any of the other camps, for fear of having one's own thought challenged. Challenging a belief system always carries the risk of destroying it, and so people are less and less willing to allow their beliefs to be challenged, for fear of having to construct a new system of thought - that's hard work. It's much easier to just find your own tribe's echo chamber to reinforce your own beliefs, and stay in your safe space.
We are witnessing the results of that line of action, just as all other failed civilizations of the past have done near their end. This does not mean the end of humanity, it just means that some pioneers are going to have to sort out a new civilization to replace the old, and that is often a bloody business. Think of the Dark Ages that created our own civilization out of the rags of what was left when the Roman Empire collapsed, and you'll get the drift. Like it or not, it's inevitable that humanity will get dragged kicking and screaming - and sometimes bleeding all over the carpet - into whatever the new civilization shakes out to be after this one takes it's last gasp. People make the mistake of thinking "the end of civilization" equates to "the end of humanity". it doesn't. Something New just comes along and develops. It's happened at least twice more or less globally, and will continue to happen as long as there are people. Once was The Late Bronze Age collapse of around 1170 BC, and another was the collapse of the Roman Empire. We survived those, and we will survive this one, too.
It's the Barbarian Tribesmen invading to take over the remnants of what was once a civilization that you have to watch out for. Those remnants serve as the foundational building blocks of The Next Big Thing, but run through he grinder of barbarian invasions and population movements.
It's how England became an "Anglo-Saxon" nation, for example. The remnants of the old Celtic Britons still exist - they're just under a new command, a new society. Roughly 2/3 of the British genome is the same stock as the ancient Britons.
"We" are still "them", just under different societal management.
ETA: It's funny how the worst of these societal collapses - examples are the late Bronze Age Collapse and the end of the Roman Empire - occur when civilizations become too overly connected "globally" - i.e. Globalism always brings them on... and no one has yet learned that is the case. All they'd have to do to discover it is release their preconceived - but erroneous - notions and crack a history book open to learn of Reality.
And they never do... so we get what we get. Humans were meant to live in tribes and nations, not as one big happy planet. that will NEVER work when one faction tries to Lord it over all of the rest. People are too diverse for that to ever take a real hold. Cooperation and trade between tribes and nations seems to work fine - just so long as each faction is allowed to retain it's own identity and fabric, until one gets the bright idea that it can take over the fabric of the other. Once that social fabric of a tribe or nation comes under attack like that, it's only a matter of time before it collapses... on BOTH sides. The aggressors collapse just as rapidly as the victim society..
... and chaos ensues, until a new Phoenix rises from the ashes.
.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Schmoe - 09-26-2023
(09-26-2023, 11:59 AM)Grace Wrote: @"Ninurta"#2 and I went out to eat at the Chinese buffet after my doctors appointment this month and sitting behind us were a couple young men. Being seated so closely I could overhear their conversation quite easily.
One was sitting there complaining about needing to find another job that had an atmosphere that was politically more to his liking because he was sick and tired of "the way it is today", this gentleman noted. He said it used to be "I think, therefore I am", but now it's more like "I have a thought, therefore I must subject you to it".
I thought at the time, and later told Ninurta that "subjecting others to one's thoughts used to be called a "conversation" " now it's called subjection as if its somehow an oppression and an abuse.
I mean, agree or disagree but standing around the water cooler people are going to attempt to engage in conversation. You are allowed to disagree with someone and/or share your own views in return. It's called conversation when you do this.
I simply CANNOT understand people who cannot manage a simple conversation with someone... people who don't even understand what a conversation even is and looks like. I'm still in shock to have heard this out of the mouth of a real live person.
I noticed an article this morning talking about the same thing as it's being noticed by businesses everywhere. To quote from the article:
Quote:[British television] Channel 4’s CEO, Alex Mahon, complained that the youngest generation to enter the workforce doesn't have the skills to debate, disagree, or work alongside people with different opinions.Outside Link to Article on Yahoo
“What we are seeing with young people who come into the workplace, Gen Z, particularly post-pandemic and with this concentration of short-form content, is that they haven’t got the skills to debate things,” Mahon said at the Royal Television Society conference in Cambridge according to multiple outlets, including the Telegraph.
If this is what has occurred, that people got so far into their online bubbles that they can't deal with real life what are we to do to resolve the situation?
How do we re-integrate people into society?
These attitudes are affecting the free exchange of ideas online, we've seen that for years now, and it's bleeding into real life in a very serious way when people can't even deal with water cooler conversation or even recognize it as conversation.
If we cannot integrate them back into real life we are well and truly lost as a people I fear. However - if we can reintroduce them and integrate them into real life where it's not some imaginary utopia where everyone holds the same views - then we might have a chance in the coming storm.
What are everyone's thoughts about this topic? Are you all seeing this in your personal interactions with people?
Do you think it may also affect you?
I keep my opinions mostly to myself while at work, except for a select few I've known for years, and have come to know are like-minded.
I kind of understand where that guy is coming from, to an extent. I'm not saying disregard any and all conversation with people who you haven't known for years, but with people I rarely interact with, I tend to keep it safe. "How bout those Eagles!" Predictable, probably boring, but safe
Everyone is different, but that's how I like it, for the most part. We had a new girl who I was training. People seem to want to tell you their life story right away anymore. I'm standing there thinking, Christ, are you buttering me up to write your story or something?
She was a good example, because the more she spoke, the less I liked her. Bashed Trump at every turn, and said she wished AOC would run for president. I said something along the lines of, they're both equally loathsome, and you'd think we could do better in a country of 325 million. I kept all conversations work-related after that, and she quit after a short while anyway.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - NightskyeB4Dawn - 09-27-2023
(09-26-2023, 06:27 PM)Grace Wrote:(09-26-2023, 01:49 PM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: We are heading toward a dystopia...
We will never be able to rein this nightmare we created in. The adage “The way to hell is paved with good intentions”, has never been truer.
The only way out is the way we have always done it. I just hope that the next civilization learns from our screw ups, and use those sticks and stones to build a community instead of killing each other, and I hope they learn never, ever, demand a king.
While it is easy to say we will never reign in the nightmare we created I have to say the negative results will be a certainty if we don't even try to change it.
Society often finds itself at one extreme or another but the one thing we always manage to do is self correct in one way or another.
As the highly intelligent beings that humanity has become, I would hope at the least to save one from the insanity.
Lol... although maybe what humanity is bouncing back from right now is intelligence itself. Wouldn't that be ironic.
Us Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. That makes all of us between 59 and 77 years old. The majority that have children, their children are grown. We don't have much time to rein in or correct the mess we have made. We are dropping like flies. And being negative again, we are not getting much better. I am trying to plan for the time when I may need total care. I truly pray that I am gone from this Earth long before that time may occur, but if by some horrible miracle I am still here, I don't want to be a burden for my family, so I am making plans to avoid that from happening.
I admit that I have little faith that we are going to be able to make things better with the little time that we have left. I also admit that while my status today is quite negative, I do hope that all will play out as it was written. I am not looking forward to still being Earth bound when the SHTF.
I agree that the younger generation has a massive amount of knowledge at their finger tips, but they see things from a position of entitlement. It was a blessing for those that were able to raise their children without them experiencing hunger or homelessness, and they were able to meet the majority of their needs.
Unfortunately, many of the hardships we worked so hard for them to avoid, has not done much for their fortitude, character, or spirit. That is why so many of my young patients are on psych meds for anxiety, depression, bi polar, and PTSD.
I agree that there will be a handful of those that will be saved from the insanity and the Idiocrasy, but their number will be too small to make much of change regarding what is coming.
I hope I am wrong.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - xuenchen - 09-27-2023
(09-26-2023, 07:58 PM)Infolurker Wrote: Sounds like trying to deprogram or reason with a "cult" member.
That is what they have done to them BTW.
Multiple years of indoctrination, telling them their unhealthy obsessions are normal, and that anyone who disagrees with them (really the disagrees with the cult group think) is not to be listened to, better yet, ban them from conversation unless they agree with the cult's answers.
The brainwashing MSM and Schools has too many people thinking a "disagreement" is automatically a Global Enemy.
Very Dangerous as we are seeing on larger scales
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - EndtheMadnessNow - 09-27-2023
I would argue it's not just GenZ who lack the skills to debate things, just look at our gov't & campaign debates. Horrible!
I have friends & some family members who are hardcore libs who believe everything on CNN is true & everything on Fox or any conservative channel is false. We don't politics. However, just about everything these days is weaponized propaganda so we don't talk much at all. I have to limit conversations on any one topic to about 20 minutes max.
It would be interesting (fun?) to take a group of GenZ'ers who saturate themselves daily online and another group of GenZ'ers who don't much use the Internet (or at all) nor TV and put them all in the same room. Their charter is to discuss among themselves solutions to problems. The problems are written on the whiteboard. Any fighting will be dealt with severe (non-physical) punishment.
I did this with my daughter one summer after she turned 16 (6 grueling weeks worth with no Internet, no TV, no phones, no friends) and she came out a whole other person, for the better. Kicked most of her old clique friends to the curb when she returned and graduated HS at the top of her class. Course, that's only one person vice a very large population of GenZ. (~68 million in the U.S.)
I told my work associates back in 2008 that this device (smartphone) is going to doom humanity. They looked at me like I was some alien lunatic.
I believe this culture phenomenon will pass, the pendulum will eventually swing the other way, but the societal landscape will be forever changed and some of the cult mentality, new age religions, and Marxist / Socialist ideologies will still persist and impede us for years to come.
As usual, Ninurta summed it up quite well.
Many on the political left are so entranced by the beauty of their vision that they cannot see the ugly reality that are creating in the real world.
“If those backing the social justice agenda could have everything they wanted, what would the country look like?”
Thomas Sowell: "We’d be killing each other."
![[Image: bhAp2IP.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/bhAp2IP.jpg)
![[Image: NCR93c6.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/NCR93c6.jpg)
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Ninurta - 09-27-2023
(09-27-2023, 12:09 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Us Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. That makes all of us between 59 and 77 years old. The majority that have children, their children are grown. We don't have much time to rein in or correct the mess we have made. We are dropping like flies. And being negative again, we are not getting much better. I am trying to plan for the time when I may need total care. I truly pray that I am gone from this Earth long before that time may occur, but if by some horrible miracle I am still here, I don't want to be a burden for my family, so I am making plans to avoid that from happening.
I admit that I have little faith that we are going to be able to make things better with the little time that we have left. I also admit that while my status today is quite negative, I do hope that all will play out as it was written. I am not looking forward to still being Earth bound when the SHTF.
That's the thing. WE don't fix the messes we made, any more than our parents fixed the messes they left us, or their parents fixed their own messes. It's up to our kids to fix our messes, just like we had to make the corrections to fix our parents' messes, and so on down through history. I can't think of any generation that fixed it's own messes - it was always their kids that fixed their messes.
It's a function of the human lifetime and physiology. As we age, we find ourselves less able to fix what we broke, so it's always left up to the next generation.
I'll admit they have a hell of a mess to fix, part of which was created by them anyhow, and so will be left to their kids, our grand-kids, to fix. What WE can do, and only us, is to train those kids what to fix, and how. Teach them how to think, and what is important to think about, and how to go about prioritizing the litany of things that need fixing.
That's our job - not fixing the mess, but giving the next generation the tools they will need to fix it.
And so it goes on, down through the ages.
.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Ninurta - 09-27-2023
(09-27-2023, 12:41 AM)xuenchen Wrote:(09-26-2023, 07:58 PM)Infolurker Wrote: Sounds like trying to deprogram or reason with a "cult" member.
That is what they have done to them BTW.
Multiple years of indoctrination, telling them their unhealthy obsessions are normal, and that anyone who disagrees with them (really the disagrees with the cult group think) is not to be listened to, better yet, ban them from conversation unless they agree with the cult's answers.
The brainwashing MSM and Schools has too many people thinking a "disagreement" is automatically a Global Enemy.
Very Dangerous as we are seeing on larger scales
If we didn't teach our kids right, if we didn't correct the misconceptions that the indoctrination was producing in them, then the fault is our own. We can't pass that buck on to the MSM or the schools if we were asleep at the wheel while the kids were being indoctrinated. That is on US, and us alone. It's a matter of that pesky "personal responsibility" that you hear talked about so much and yet used so little.
Never be too busy to talk to or interact with your kids. They have a million questions that only YOU have the answers to. If they don't get the answers from you, they'll sure as hell soak up the lies and bullshit from elsewhere.
.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Ninurta - 09-27-2023
(09-27-2023, 03:40 AM)EndtheMadnessNow Wrote: ...
It would be interesting (fun?) to take a group of GenZ'ers who saturate themselves daily online and another group of GenZ'ers who don't much use the Internet (or at all) nor TV and put them all in the same room. Their charter is to discuss among themselves solutions to problems. The problems are written on the whiteboard. Any fighting will be dealt with severe (non-physical) punishment.
I did this with my daughter one summer after she turned 16 (6 grueling weeks worth with no Internet, no TV, no phones, no friends) and she came out a whole other person, for the better. Kicked most of her old clique friends to the curb when she returned and graduated HS at the top of her class. Course, that's only one person vice a very large population of GenZ. (~68 million in the U.S.)
I told my work associates back in 2008 that this device (smartphone) is going to doom humanity. They looked at me like I was some alien lunatic.
...
I used to take the phones away from the kids at work. They were a security risk because all phones have cameras in them these days, and it was part of my job to relieve folks of their phones because of that. You'd have thought I was pulling their teeth without benefit of anesthesia!
I actually had one guy say "can't you just beat the hell out of me and let me keep the phone instead?". I looked at him long and funny, that awkward pause kinda thing, and then said "what are you? Some kind of commie spy? Gimme that damned phone! If I have to take it from you, I guarantee it's going to get somewhat damaged!"
Kids these days! I'm pretty sure they'd rather take a beating than give up their smart phones, tablets, and whatnots. So it's probably a good cal to specify "non-physical" punishments for infractions.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Grace - 09-27-2023
(09-26-2023, 11:46 PM)Schmoe Wrote: I keep my opinions mostly to myself while at work, except for a select few I've known for years, and have come to know are like-minded.
I kind of understand where that guy is coming from, to an extent. I'm not saying disregard any and all conversation with people who you haven't known for years, but with people I rarely interact with, I tend to keep it safe. "How bout those Eagles!" Predictable, probably boring, but safe
Everyone is different, but that's how I like it, for the most part. We had a new girl who I was training. People seem to want to tell you their life story right away anymore. I'm standing there thinking, Christ, are you buttering me up to write your story or something?
She was a good example, because the more she spoke, the less I liked her. Bashed Trump at every turn, and said she wished AOC would run for president. I said something along the lines of, they're both equally loathsome, and you'd think we could do better in a country of 325 million. I kept all conversations work-related after that, and she quit after a short while anyway.
There are always going to be those people who overshare - lol.. I'm sure my husband would say I have a tendency to the same at times, though I do attempt to keep work on a more professional level.
As I was reading your post I remembered when I was working. I hated sports but I used to read the sports pages daily during football season so I could sound like I knew what people were talking about... lol. But it worked in that for those coworkers you didn't really know it was a safe topic.
I was thinking that perhaps it's the art of small talk which has been lost, and to a degree it likely has, but as Ninurta in the post above yours brings up everything is political now. Football is no longer anything more than a political topic now, what with so many boycotting sports.
We are likely loosing our common spaces, and our differences are ever widening gulfs.
We can talk about hobbies, but I think the gulfs are getting too wide to cross.
I was on a hobbyist forum for years. The forum was a place politics wasn't allowed unless it was directly related to the hobby and then it had to be to the point so the forum itself was a pretty safe place. Because it was a hobby forum, there was a group of us that had one another's addresses and real information because we'd mail one another things.
Most of those on the political left post 2015 would occasionally make political comments and generally if it was a one off comment it would be left alone, only if it started a fight would it be removed from the lounge area threads. One by one I watched everyone on the political right get banned due to taking the bait and getting drawn into a fight.
One of forums permanent members was an elderly Catholic woman, harmless in every way. One of those in our little group called her a racist among other things one day. I sent a PM to ask WTF and he went off on how people on the political right should be killed - literally killed - for our political views.
I actually got scared. You can't really help but kind of know where everyone stands politically anymore even if politics isn't the topic and he was literally, whether he realized it or not, PMing me telling me I deserved to die, and that if he could he'd be happy to do so with his bare hands.
This is someone who knew my name and had my address and if he'd been paying any attention at all knew where I stood politically.
I left that forum over it. I realized this pretense of all being friends was nothing but a lie I had bought into.
However, I tell myself that's just online where people rant and that's it. But I do wonder how much that bleeds into real life too.
I wonder how to find our common bond again, those topics that have the potential to bring us together - at least around the water cooler. A bond that prevents us from wanting to kill those who vote "wrong". Whether it's even possible.
(09-26-2023, 08:11 PM)Ninurta Wrote: There have always been, at least within my experience, those whose opinions could brook no dissent. What we are seeing now, I think, is the increase of those types of people. Once upon a time, when I was younger, there were two subjects one did not breach in polite company - religion and politics. The reason for that prohibition is that those two subjects tend to allow for no dissenting opinion, and tempers flare during their discussion rather quickly if dissent is expressed.
What we seem to be seeing now is that EVERYTHING is starting to fall under one or the other of those two headings, sometimes both, and therefore conversation has been correspondingly truncated to keep it within those two subject areas, which has considerably shrunk the common area where discussion used to take place.
That is the result of confusing social issues with political issues (from both sides of the political spectrum) and thinking that morality can be legislated. It cannot. One's moral compass comes from within, and cannot be imposed from without. That attempt just leads to clashes and frictions. Religion and politics should NEVER be mixed, no matter what your politics or religion are. We are seeing the results of that attempt right now, before our very eyes.
Politics are becoming more polarized as Left Wing authoritarian philosophies become more prevalent in what was once a freedom-loving nation The clash between those two opposing stances is one of the things we are seeing that is being taken as an inability to converse... and literally everything is becoming a political football, where dissent cannot be allowed - from either side.
Compounding that is the fact that many things that were always secular discussions are taking on the aura of religious thought, where deviation from the proposed story line cannot be allowed. "Climate change" is one of those "New Religions", and is a political football as well. Bad combination. When a subject cannot be questioned, cannot bear any criticism.
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As always you give a lot to consider...
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - Grace - 09-27-2023
(09-27-2023, 12:09 AM)NightskyeB4Dawn Wrote: Us Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. That makes all of us between 59 and 77 years old. The majority that have children, their children are grown. We don't have much time to rein in or correct the mess we have made. We are dropping like flies. And being negative again, we are not getting much better. I am trying to plan for the time when I may need total care. I truly pray that I am gone from this Earth long before that time may occur, but if by some horrible miracle I am still here, I don't want to be a burden for my family, so I am making plans to avoid that from happening.
I admit that I have little faith that we are going to be able to make things better with the little time that we have left. I also admit that while my status today is quite negative, I do hope that all will play out as it was written. I am not looking forward to still being Earth bound when the SHTF.
I agree that the younger generation has a massive amount of knowledge at their finger tips, but they see things from a position of entitlement. It was a blessing for those that were able to raise their children without them experiencing hunger or homelessness, and they were able to meet the majority of their needs.
Unfortunately, many of the hardships we worked so hard for them to avoid, has not done much for their fortitude, character, or spirit. That is why so many of my young patients are on psych meds for anxiety, depression, bi polar, and PTSD.
I agree that there will be a handful of those that will be saved from the insanity and the Idiocrasy, but their number will be too small to make much of change regarding what is coming.
I hope I am wrong.
I'm not a baby boomer, I'm GenX, but I'm close enough I suppose to it being disabled and married to a boomer..
None of us probably have much time left, but I do believe we should do something positive with our abilities as they are.
I have no illusions of dying before SHTF, and no belief in any rapture by way of escape to soothe, and when S does HTF and a disability preventing me from caring for myself in such a situation I'll likely simply quietly starve to death. Nin is planning a massive stroke or heart attack - I have no illusions he'll be able to care for me after he stops getting heart meds.
But I do believe in spending the time and abilities I have in positive pursuits - at least some of the time.. lol. And I do think if we are ever to pull anything back at all it is all of our responsibility to try, regardless of age, so long as we have an ability.
Since the far left isn't planning on trying, it's up to us to find solutions - not just reason to be angry.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - NightskyeB4Dawn - 09-27-2023
I see some bleed over in the real world on occasion , but I think it will increase as the internet makes it not just normal but expected. I try to fight it when I see it, but I can only reach one person at a time.
The internet has in some ways made me more of who I have always been, and has changed me at the same time.
Yesterday, after my Mother's radiation treatment, I went to our regular deli to get my Mother her favorite lunch meat, she was tired and wanted a sandwich. I noticed right away that the girl behind the counter was in a foul, foul mood. She was new, I guess, because I had not seen her before.
Some people would have matched her mood, and some would have taken offense and called her out on it.
My first thought was, something happened, and I am not going to push the ball down the road. When she asked us what we wanted, she was was a bit curt and was not welcoming at all.
So I hit her right between the eyes with the biggest brightest smile that I could muster, and told her that we had driven past two delis just to come to this one because this deli is my Mother's favorite. I told her it is not just the food, she loves everything about it especially the staff.
I saw an immediate drop of the scowl. I had her laughing and sharing in less than 60 seconds. That is my super power.
I love people and I love socializing and fellowshipping. Over half my week is spent volunteering, and serving.
Our society may be becoming more hostile, less social, and less giving, but I plan to stick out like a sore thumb.
Maybe it is my fear of what kind of legacy we are leaving behind, and I do zone in on the negative aspects of this world today, but maybe the negativity is what prompts me to act. To fight back, to find that common ground and to lessen the gap.
I have an advantage because people come to me seeking. Most of the time they come looking for food, snacks, coffee, or lemonade, but I always make sure I give them a heaping helping of smiles, laughter, attention, and love if they want it or need it.
We can't control what others do, but we can control what we do, at least for now.
We are Rogues, fight was instilled in us, we just need to do what we do best. We most be bold.
RE: Freedom Of Speech And GenZ - NightskyeB4Dawn - 09-27-2023
(09-27-2023, 02:11 PM)Grace Wrote: I'm not a baby boomer, I'm GenX, but I'm close enough I suppose to it being disabled and married to a boomer..
None of us probably have much time left, but I do believe we should do something positive with our abilities as they are.
I have no illusions of dying before SHTF, and no belief in any rapture by way of escape to soothe, and when S does HTF and a disability preventing me from caring for myself in such a situation I'll likely simply quietly starve to death. Nin is planning a massive stroke or heart attack - I have no illusions he'll be able to care for me after he stops getting heart meds.
But I do believe in spending the time and abilities I have in positive pursuits - at least some of the time.. lol. And I do think if we are ever to pull anything back at all it is all of our responsibility to try, regardless of age, so long as we have an ability.
Since the far left isn't planning on trying, it's up to us to find solutions - not just reason to be angry.
I agree with you.
I even agree that I am very aware of things outside the expected, the accepted, and considered norm.
I do see things in the negative, literally and figuratively. Thanks to a congenital visual abnormality.
I have not given up on us humans yet. I just don't believe that we will change enough, fast enough, to stop the crap from hitting the fan.
I like you and @Ninurta believe that we should do the best we can with what we have right now. And I think the best way to do that is to look honestly at the problem, including looking at how we got to where we are, and by taking responsibility for the mistakes we made.
Maybe once the younger generation stops blaming us for the mess we made and decide to fix our messes and work on doing a better job than we have done, maybe things will change for the better.
Unfortunately, better never means better for everyone. Better always means worse for some.
I raised Gen Xers. Only one of them I think will make it if things got lost in the weeds. I guess one out of three is not too bad.