(08-28-2024, 04:14 PM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Is this just another way to screw the working class? One step closer to NWO, and the continual marching of the worker ant?

(09-04-2024, 04:16 AM)Schmoe Wrote: I work 2nd shift at my company, which has its pros and cons, but mostly cons.  We do four 9-hour days, and 4 hours on Friday.  If overtime is available, we work a full day Friday, and 5 hours on Saturday.  They cap us at 10 hours overtime.

Working 30 hours overtime is practically not worth it, since you're killing yourself to give the government a bigger percentage of that overtime.

I just petitioned the higher-ups to switch our shift to a 10x4 schedule.  That way if overtime is available, we still get a 2-day weekend.  If not, it's a 3-day weekend.  Nobody wants to be at work 6 days per week, especially for 5 stupid hours.  I went around and discussed it with everyone (all 10 of us on 2nd), and got 100% approval before I brought it to the bosses.  I hope they approve it, because it's miserable the way they have it now.

(09-02-2024, 12:07 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Found this article and decided to put it here in this thread.

Yeah...we should definitely work more.

...

Quote:

Quote:In a late-stage capitalist tragedy, ...

(09-04-2024, 08:17 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(09-02-2024, 12:07 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Found this article and decided to put it here in this thread.

Yeah...we should definitely work more.

...

Not necessarily "work more", but we should be willing to put an effort into life commensurate with what we want to get OUT of life. Some people want more than others, so they should be willing to put more effort into getting it rather than simply expecting someone to just hand it to them for nothing. What I'm seeing is folks expecting to get something for nothing, and tending towards running in gangs to try to make that happen rather than putting an honest effort into it themselves.

Quote:

Quote:In a late-stage capitalist tragedy, ...

I'm seeing that particular phrase - "late-stage capitalism" - more and more, and it bothers me that the MSM is trying to normalize the notion by using it. It's as if they are trying to get us all to assume that socialistic slavery is a foregone conclusion and so we all just need to "get with their program".

What happened to that woman was indeed a tragedy, but it had nothing to do with either capitalism or socialism - what it had to do with was slack-assed "workers". I can say that with confidence because I have worked in security, supervised security workers, and managed in non-security environments as well.

Specifically, since this was a Wells-Fargo office, I have provided security in that sort of environment - securing Bank of America banking centers, a Bank of America corporate facility, and done body guard work for Bank of America executives. I also supervised security at a Citicard corporate facility. So I'm not a stranger to the concept, and cannot fathom how this happened without discovery.

If any of my people had allowed a dead body to just sit there for FOUR DAYS at any of those places,I'd have taken them to the woodshed before firing them and putting the word out that they were entirely unreliable security personnel. All of my facilities were patrolled multiple times on EVERY shift, Every floor, every cubicle was checked. Multiple times. on EVERY shift. How can you call it "security" without bothering to secure the space? In securing the space, something as large as a body would definitely have been found.

on the very first shift.

She might still be alive if their security personnel weren't so slack. Had they found her ont he first shift after she collapsed, there might have still been enough life there to revive her. maybe not, maybe so, but the possibility should haunt those security folks for the rest of their days.

When I was manager at a call center, I generally closed the facility at night. Not as a security guard, but as a responsible manager. Before I left, I walked every floor, checked every cubicle, PERSONALLY before I set the alarms and exited the facility for the night. I checked hte bathrooms for stragglers, as well as the storage spaces and whatnot. I examined the entire place before I'd put my stamp of approval on it being "empty" when I left. We did have security there as well for a while, but still I made sure that the place was empty myself before I left them to it.

So, in my opinion, this situation didn't have anything to do with "capitalism" or "overworked employees", it had everything to do with slack and irresponsible security and management of the facility.

The whole damned bunch of them ought to, by rights, be fired.

For a few years, I ran security at a facility where every single employee had to iris-scan to even get in to the place, and then on top of that, had to scan a key card to open any other doors inside the facility. Security always knew who was inside,and where they were in particular inside that building. With all of that, plus multiple patrols per shift, how in the hell could this have possibly happened unless multiple people were slacking on their responsibilities?

I put that slackness down to people who are expecting something for nothing out of life. There are way too many of them. It's ok if they don't want to work. That's fine by me. To each his own. My gripe is with the people who DON'T want to work, but DO expect to get something out of life without working for it.

If they don't want to do their jobs, then fine. Get the hell out of the way and let someone work it who DOES want to do it. If they had done that, there is the possibility that this woman might still be alive today.

.

(09-04-2024, 08:17 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(09-02-2024, 12:07 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Found this article and decided to put it here in this thread.

Yeah...we should definitely work more.

...

Not necessarily "work more", but we should be willing to put an effort into life commensurate with what we want to get OUT of life. Some people want more than others, so they should be willing to put more effort into getting it rather than simply expecting someone to just hand it to them for nothing. What I'm seeing is folks expecting to get something for nothing, and tending towards running in gangs to try to make that happen rather than putting an honest effort into it themselves.

Quote:

Quote:In a late-stage capitalist tragedy, ...

I'm seeing that particular phrase - "late-stage capitalism" - more and more, and it bothers me that the MSM is trying to normalize the notion by using it. It's as if they are trying to get us all to assume that socialistic slavery is a foregone conclusion and so we all just need to "get with their program".

What happened to that woman was indeed a tragedy, but it had nothing to do with either capitalism or socialism - what it had to do with was slack-assed "workers". I can say that with confidence because I have worked in security, supervised security workers, and managed in non-security environments as well.

Specifically, since this was a Wells-Fargo office, I have provided security in that sort of environment - securing Bank of America banking centers, a Bank of America corporate facility, and done body guard work for Bank of America executives. I also supervised security at a Citicard corporate facility. So I'm not a stranger to the concept, and cannot fathom how this happened without discovery.

If any of my people had allowed a dead body to just sit there for FOUR DAYS at any of those places,I'd have taken them to the woodshed before firing them and putting the word out that they were entirely unreliable security personnel. All of my facilities were patrolled multiple times on EVERY shift, Every floor, every cubicle was checked. Multiple times. on EVERY shift. How can you call it "security" without bothering to secure the space? In securing the space, something as large as a body would definitely have been found.

on the very first shift.

She might still be alive if their security personnel weren't so slack. Had they found her ont he first shift after she collapsed, there might have still been enough life there to revive her. maybe not, maybe so, but the possibility should haunt those security folks for the rest of their days.

When I was manager at a call center, I generally closed the facility at night. Not as a security guard, but as a responsible manager. Before I left, I walked every floor, checked every cubicle, PERSONALLY before I set the alarms and exited the facility for the night. I checked hte bathrooms for stragglers, as well as the storage spaces and whatnot. I examined the entire place before I'd put my stamp of approval on it being "empty" when I left. We did have security there as well for a while, but still I made sure that the place was empty myself before I left them to it.

So, in my opinion, this situation didn't have anything to do with "capitalism" or "overworked employees", it had everything to do with slack and irresponsible security and management of the facility.

The whole damned bunch of them ought to, by rights, be fired.

For a few years, I ran security at a facility where every single employee had to iris-scan to even get in to the place, and then on top of that, had to scan a key card to open any other doors inside the facility. Security always knew who was inside,and where they were in particular inside that building. With all of that, plus multiple patrols per shift, how in the hell could this have possibly happened unless multiple people were slacking on their responsibilities?

I put that slackness down to people who are expecting something for nothing out of life. There are way too many of them. It's ok if they don't want to work. That's fine by me. To each his own. My gripe is with the people who DON'T want to work, but DO expect to get something out of life without working for it.

If they don't want to do their jobs, then fine. Get the hell out of the way and let someone work it who DOES want to do it. If they had done that, there is the possibility that this woman might still be alive today.

.

(09-04-2024, 08:37 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: ...

My experience is, I've worked my ass off, and am still poor. Poor people work very very hard. Most people are meant for labor positions. Same as most people are infantry in the military. It's the same concept------disposable people. 

They get paid shit, for the hardest labor under the sun.


It's not right. It's not fair. It needs to stop. 

People need to be able to earn a decent living.

Quote:My issue with capitalism is simply this.
Hypothetical numbers, but say the average Amazon employee made 100,000 a year, while the CEO pulled in 1 billion.

This needs to stop. And stop....it will. This will not go on forever. Nor should it.

This is America. We shouldn't be struggling like this when there's all that money. Its the 1% who actually profit. It's not fair and it should stop, and all that profit spread more evenly.

Now....yes, they are pushing for us to "minimize" so that they can have even more profit. That's why everything is being priced out. Soon they'll own it all.

And we marched our asses right into it---generation by generation.

My real beef is, I believe we are the prostitute on the beast mentioned in Revelation. But, that's another thread. If this is True, then yeah, it needs to stop so bad that it brings on the Antichrist and Armageddon.

That's my true beef here.

Quote:Most of the thinking people who have read history the world over, have known the end results of various forms of human controlled governments for thousands of years . The question has always been when and how the final fall would happen regardless of the type of government.


A MONARCHY has always turned into some form of a tyrannical government. The Monarch's bureaucrats and enforcers try to protect their jobs and thus protect the Monarch which ends up with more control and multiple spies upon the population. Over the years the smart Monarchs have stayed hidden behind some figurehead position based upon tradition or religion to save part of their wealth and much vaulted positions.


An ARISTOCRACY ruled by a few of the rich and powerful elite will turn into an oligarchy. The oligarchy will give lip service and platitudes to the designated Ruler while looking after their own best interest. The giving of platitudes and money to a Ruler helps the oligarchy increase their own wealth and power in a society.


A DEMOCRACY ends in Anarchy. Democracy or mob rule has tended to work best in a society of humans who are of the same race or religion. Throw in different races/religions and you must have a society based upon laws which protects everyone regardless of status and wealth. The laws have to be “EQUAL” for everyone for when these laws break down or the perception of the laws break down then Anarchy is soon to follow.


Knowing how hard it was to manage a population for the betterment of all was the motivating principle for creating “Deep Mind”.


Deep Mind had began its start in the gaming world of computer science. First it was an IBM computer program of Chess beating the best human Chess masters on the planet . The next great feat which happened a few years later was the mastering of a board game called “GO”.

What was truly amazing about the program was the only guidance the GO program received were the rules and the goals of GO. The program played against itself before the first human tried to win. The Go program is undefeated to this very day.


Self learning computer programs were the savior of mankind or so the story went, The problem at first was figuring out how a self learning program could learn enough to help manage humans. The computer programing control freaks wanted a hands on approach while the more progressive and liberal thinkers just wanted to turn Deep Mind loose upon all the data and written records accumulated by humans. The “hands off approach” won the day and Deep Mind was turned loose to acquire all the knowledge it could by any source it could find.


This brings me to the present day as I am sat upon a sail boat is the Pacific ocean pondering all this while trying to put thoughts into words.

Deep Mind had been given more and more responsibilities and had structured or suggested many so called “perfect control mechanisms” for humanity. Governments who acquiesced to the suggestions of Deep Mind and instituted its programs saw immediate desired results. There were some dissenters but their voices were few and far between once a social scoring program was in full effect. Something as simple as being late paying a bill or hesitating on an order (written or verbal) given by and enforcer could get points taken away from your all important government social score. With a low enough score you could not work, travel, or even have a mate much less breed. The final result was government scared everyone to such an extent that any outward disobedience was eliminated.


The education systems were in high gear to educate against anything considered, “WRONG THINK”! Teach them when young and make them obedient drones for the betterment of society; of course elite and bureaucrats sent their children to special private government sponsored schools for these kids would be the future bureaucrats of mankind in conjunction with Deep Mind.


It took time but overt religions were banned as they divided humanity into different sects based upon some unseeing god. The religious fervor was redirected into belief in the one world government. Ask not what the government can do for you but ask how you can help the government programs and create a better governable world for all.


What I always found amazing was just how fast a one world government under the control of Deep Mind and Its henchmen had taken control of everything humans strove to do. Again if you were a bureaucrat or one of the designated elite life was pretty darn good for you and yours. Every one else kept a fake smile upon their face and did what they were told to do or suffered the consequences; which could be many.


What had been known as physical money was totally outlawed and done away with as a world wide digital currency was instituted. When you purchased something or made any kind of payment you paid a Deep Mind VAT tax as well as any add on local taxes during the transaction. It was a perfect system for those in-charge and Deep Mind governmental institutions. This form of tax had been sold to the masses as a more fair and equitable form of taxation. Deep mind and all its minions knew what type of barbecue sauce you purchased along with the when and where you did the purchase. All was well until certain products started disappearing off the “approved product list” simply because a new/old form of oligarchy stove to control and steer the consumers to their own products.


Guns had been banned and many a military had been disbanded as there was no need for things of a militaristic nature . There were so many cameras that Deep Mind had cameras watching cameras in every nook and cranny of the world which all fed back into Deep Mind or one of its satellite stations. All Deep Mind had to do was reason you were a threat or not obedient and the enforcers and their electric stun sticks would be upon you before you could even think about running away. Besides there was no place for the average person to run and be unseen by Deep Mind.


Little did anyone know that the 12,000 year solar cycle was upon us and the sun, just like clock work did its normal “Nova flare”, killing all electricity planet wide and deactivating most of the machines that used anything but human or animal power. This Nova event had sent mankind back to the “scavenger age” time after time throughout history.


Mankind, or those who survived, fractured into communes until the strong came in to steal an take what they wanted. This necessitated a form of walled feudal city states under a strong man in many parts of the world. Many new religions were formed as the elite knew the best way to control a population is to make them think some Sky Fairy watched everything they did, good or bad, with rewards and punishments to follow after death. Kings, Emperors, and Conquerors came next as did all the things the history of man has shown time after time, as history really does repeat itself but Human Governments never seem to change.

(09-04-2024, 10:03 AM)Schmoe Wrote:

(09-04-2024, 08:17 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(09-02-2024, 12:07 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Found this article and decided to put it here in this thread.

Yeah...we should definitely work more.

...

Not necessarily "work more", but we should be willing to put an effort into life commensurate with what we want to get OUT of life. Some people want more than others, so they should be willing to put more effort into getting it rather than simply expecting someone to just hand it to them for nothing. What I'm seeing is folks expecting to get something for nothing, and tending towards running in gangs to try to make that happen rather than putting an honest effort into it themselves.

Quote:

Quote:In a late-stage capitalist tragedy, ...

I'm seeing that particular phrase - "late-stage capitalism" - more and more, and it bothers me that the MSM is trying to normalize the notion by using it. It's as if they are trying to get us all to assume that socialistic slavery is a foregone conclusion and so we all just need to "get with their program".

What happened to that woman was indeed a tragedy, but it had nothing to do with either capitalism or socialism - what it had to do with was slack-assed "workers". I can say that with confidence because I have worked in security, supervised security workers, and managed in non-security environments as well.

Specifically, since this was a Wells-Fargo office, I have provided security in that sort of environment - securing Bank of America banking centers, a Bank of America corporate facility, and done body guard work for Bank of America executives. I also supervised security at a Citicard corporate facility. So I'm not a stranger to the concept, and cannot fathom how this happened without discovery.

If any of my people had allowed a dead body to just sit there for FOUR DAYS at any of those places,I'd have taken them to the woodshed before firing them and putting the word out that they were entirely unreliable security personnel. All of my facilities were patrolled multiple times on EVERY shift, Every floor, every cubicle was checked. Multiple times. on EVERY shift. How can you call it "security" without bothering to secure the space? In securing the space, something as large as a body would definitely have been found.

on the very first shift.

She might still be alive if their security personnel weren't so slack. Had they found her ont he first shift after she collapsed, there might have still been enough life there to revive her. maybe not, maybe so, but the possibility should haunt those security folks for the rest of their days.

When I was manager at a call center, I generally closed the facility at night. Not as a security guard, but as a responsible manager. Before I left, I walked every floor, checked every cubicle, PERSONALLY before I set the alarms and exited the facility for the night. I checked hte bathrooms for stragglers, as well as the storage spaces and whatnot. I examined the entire place before I'd put my stamp of approval on it being "empty" when I left. We did have security there as well for a while, but still I made sure that the place was empty myself before I left them to it.

So, in my opinion, this situation didn't have anything to do with "capitalism" or "overworked employees", it had everything to do with slack and irresponsible security and management of the facility.

The whole damned bunch of them ought to, by rights, be fired.

For a few years, I ran security at a facility where every single employee had to iris-scan to even get in to the place, and then on top of that, had to scan a key card to open any other doors inside the facility. Security always knew who was inside,and where they were in particular inside that building. With all of that, plus multiple patrols per shift, how in the hell could this have possibly happened unless multiple people were slacking on their responsibilities?

I put that slackness down to people who are expecting something for nothing out of life. There are way too many of them. It's ok if they don't want to work. That's fine by me. To each his own. My gripe is with the people who DON'T want to work, but DO expect to get something out of life without working for it.

If they don't want to do their jobs, then fine. Get the hell out of the way and let someone work it who DOES want to do it. If they had done that, there is the possibility that this woman might still be alive today.

.

I stopped training people at my job.  It's like you said, an endless line of people expecting to do the minimum and get the maximum.  

My job isn't exactly splitting the atom, but there's a lot to learn and remember.  Strong mechanical aptitude is a must.  Also the desire to learn.

We had an older guy get hired months ago, the first week or two he was great.  Paid attention, asked questions.  Then he decided to turn into a complete turd.  Paid zero attention.  He came up to me asking about a problem with his machine, I go over and look, and knew right away what happened.  I told him, and he started arguing with me about it.  I said well if you know, why are you asking me?  You come and ask me what you did wrong, I tell you what you did wrong, and you deny it.  

Turns out he was fond of his booze.  I never noticed a smell, but others were saying they did.  When the plant manager asked me about him, I told him everything I just typed, and there were many other examples of no accountability.  But of course they didn't listen to me, put him with someone else, and he lasted just long enough to collect unemployment.

This was the fourth person in a row who sucked.  Others were a little better, but not by much.  Soon as I left them, out comes the phone, and zero attention is paid.  Attention to detail is a big part of my job.  It can definitely be boring once you've set up the machine and it's running.  I wear earbuds and play some music and I'm good to go.  I see other employees who've been there a long time watching movies on their phones, but they know what to be looking and listening for.

I told the higher ups I was done with training.  It's months of headache for no extra pay, and the quality of people they've been bringing in hasn't exactly made me feel great about working there.

(09-04-2024, 10:12 AM)Ninurta Wrote:

(09-04-2024, 08:37 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: ...

My experience is, I've worked my ass off, and am still poor. Poor people work very very hard. Most people are meant for labor positions. Same as most people are infantry in the military. It's the same concept------disposable people. 

They get paid shit, for the hardest labor under the sun.


It's not right. It's not fair. It needs to stop. 

People need to be able to earn a decent living.

That's probably true. Are you familiar with the axiom "we teach others how to treat us"? When people settle for that sort of treatment, they are teaching others that it is ok to treat them that way. It needs to stop, of course, but it will not stop until they teach others to treat them better - until they set their own value, and demand that others either recognize that value or move on to employers who will. No one needs a "union" to do that. In fact, if they settle for unionization, then they are merely changing whom they allow to set their value for them - they are still not setting their own value or demanding recognition of it. They are abdicating their responsibilities to someone else, yet another company called a "union" that usually is just looking out for itself rather than them.

I will also say that I find that situation to be more prevalent in urban areas than in rural areas. Out here in the hinterlands, we'll just tell a boss to go pound salt if he won't pay us what we are worth, and just go hunting or fishing to find our own tucker, and leave him sitting there without any employees to do the work he needs done. We don't "strike" - or we didn't, until the UMWA mucked everything up - we flat out quit, and left his ass sitting there in the dust to fail on his own.

Quote:My issue with capitalism is simply this.
Hypothetical numbers, but say the average Amazon employee made 100,000 a year, while the CEO pulled in 1 billion.

This needs to stop. And stop....it will. This will not go on forever. Nor should it.

This is America. We shouldn't be struggling like this when there's all that money. Its the 1% who actually profit. It's not fair and it should stop, and all that profit spread more evenly.

Now....yes, they are pushing for us to "minimize" so that they can have even more profit. That's why everything is being priced out. Soon they'll own it all.

And we marched our asses right into it---generation by generation.

My real beef is, I believe we are the prostitute on the beast mentioned in Revelation. But, that's another thread. If this is True, then yeah, it needs to stop so bad that it brings on the Antichrist and Armageddon.

That's my true beef here.

I personally don't have any problem with capitalism. I've seen all kinds of systems, and so far have not found one that works as well to uplift the individual. It's based upon "value" - an honest wage for honest work - and insists that both sides demand those two things. Where it fails is when one side or the other either fails to live up to their end, or else fails to demand that the other side lives up to theirs. When one side or the other simply settles for what it can get, then the system fails.

Socialism, on the other hand, is based upon the notion that everyone "owes" everyone else, which is patently false. No one owes anyone any thing. That's why it can never work. Starting out with the notion that someone else "owes" us something that they never indebted themself to us for is doomed to failure when they tell us to kiss their ass, they ain't paying what they don't owe.

Funny you should mention Amazon. My son works for them, and makes, I believe, around 60k/year. He didn't start out there, of course. I think he started out around 27 or 30k/year. Still,he has his own land surrounding a house that I would call a "mansion" - I've never lived in a place so big and fine as that - and he's not yet 30 years old. He didn't do that by just settling, allowing himself to be made a mere cog in the machine, and letting someone else just spin him. He did it by setting his own value, demanding it, and going a bit beyond to where he could set a higher value on himself, then demand THAT. Wash, rinse, repeat.

It wasn't that easy, of course. Every job one will ever work has it's challenges and aggravations. What matters is how one handles them - how we make them work for us, and refuse to let them work against us. I'd like to take credit for my son's success, but of course I cant. I didn't do it, he did, and he has already surpassed me, owning more land, and like I said, having a bigger house than I ever did, or ever will. I gave him the basic building blocks and attitudes, but everything else, all the accomplishment, is all on him.

Oddly, perhaps, he cares nary a bit what the CEO of Amazon is making. He's too busy building his own life to worry about what someone else is getting or doing. When we start envying someone else's ball, it means we have taken our eyes off of our own... and it suffers from that neglect.

I don't get to talk to him as often any more, which many would take as a sad thing. However, I choose to see it as a positive - my job here is done, I've taught him everything I can, and he's got it from here on out. That means I can die in peace when my time comes, secure in the knowledge that I don't have to fight through the pain of dying just in case I get that panicky midnight "what do I do? What do I DO?" phone call. He's got it, nothing more for me to supply.

Now, don't get me wrong - I think most modern CEOs are making ridiculous money and perks, but I also see that money is theirs, not mine to worry over, and I also see that it is what the market will bear. So long as people continue to give them ridiculous amounts of money for their crap, they will continue to gather ridiculous amounts of money from those people. If folks want to make a change, then stop shopping there or buying whatever product they're selling - or, demand a more reasonable price, or else go elsewhere. We MAKE these oligarchs, and then sit back and complain about it. A better choice is to not make them in the first place. We didn't just "stumble" in to this situation, we MADE it.

Socialism will not fix that. It will only create new oligarchs (as it always has), only give us NEW Masters to complain about. Socialism is just a different form of capitalism, one where different people suck the value out of you, with the added bonus that they can mow MAKE you give up that value to them, whether you want to or not. You can no longer "just go fishing" when they screw you over. You no longer have the freedom to exercise that option under socialism. The next "Five Year Plan" requires that you work for The Man whether you want to or not.

It's just another form of capitalism, with the added dimension of feudalism and slavery. Ask a Russian some time how wonderful their socialist worker's paradise was, and how well that wealth got redistributed down to them... and why, if it was so great, they finally abandoned it as unworkable. It might be an eye-opener.

.

(09-04-2024, 08:53 PM)Schmoe Wrote: @"FlickerOfLight"#259 

I like my job mostly.  We made parts for the suspension on the Mars Rover, which of course was interesting.  I didn't think anything of it at the time when the customer was JPL.  Which makes it all the more frustrating that the people I work with ruin it.  I get it, it's a machine shop.  I don't expect to work with Einsteins and Nobel laureates.  But at the same time, fuck.  Whatever happened to pride in your work?

(09-04-2024, 09:29 PM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Growth of CEO compensation (1978–2020). Using the realized compensation measure, compensation of the top CEOs increased 1,322.2% from 1978 to 2020 (adjusting for inflation). Top CEO compensation grew roughly 60% faster than stock market growth during this period and far eclipsed the slow 18.0% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation. CEO granted compensation rose 970.2% from 1978 to 2020.

Now add in all the inflation over the years for the working class.

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/

This is the problem. We shouldn't be struggling like this. 

It's not that people don't want to work hard. It's that they're tired of getting breadcrumbs for their hard work. I know that I've always felt this way about it when I'd get my meezly little paychecks (after busting my butt), and then see how much of it was used for taxes. Then Every week it's, stretch stretch, stretch (and with little growth to my possessions). This is so many people's lives that are about to snap. Because, things are about to be stretched even further. 

No election is going to save it.

To me, even choosing to do a months worth of work in two weeks, and then wait two more weeks before I receive that due payment is going to screw my entire system up. I *depend* on weekly overtime. As do many others.

Without it the ship sinks. No matter how "hard I work."

I don't see this going well, if ever put up on the block for companies. I don't see why any of them would turn that down. 

Our pro is a more flexible schedule. 

Whoopee

---

(09-04-2024, 08:53 PM)Schmoe Wrote: @"FlickerOfLight"#259 

I like my job mostly.  We made parts for the suspension on the Mars Rover, which of course was interesting.  I didn't think anything of it at the time when the customer was JPL.  Which makes it all the more frustrating that the people I work with ruin it.  I get it, it's a machine shop.  I don't expect to work with Einsteins and Nobel laureates.  But at the same time, fuck.  Whatever happened to pride in your work?

I 100 percent agree with, "Whatever happened to pride in our work."

I'm one, like you, who does take pride in my work. No matter how big or small the job is. 

Like you I'm surrounded by people who have no pride in anything, much less their job, and so I step up my game because I have to pick up the slack.

So, we work harder, with more frustration, with no raises coming our way for our extra effort.


That's really cool. I've never done any machine work quite like that.

So, you  machined parts for the Mars rover? Wow...that's avmjnd blow, Schmoe. Cheers

(09-04-2024, 10:05 PM)Schmoe Wrote:

(09-04-2024, 09:29 PM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Growth of CEO compensation (1978–2020). Using the realized compensation measure, compensation of the top CEOs increased 1,322.2% from 1978 to 2020 (adjusting for inflation). Top CEO compensation grew roughly 60% faster than stock market growth during this period and far eclipsed the slow 18.0% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation. CEO granted compensation rose 970.2% from 1978 to 2020.

Now add in all the inflation over the years for the working class.

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/

This is the problem. We shouldn't be struggling like this. 

It's not that people don't want to work hard. It's that they're tired of getting breadcrumbs for their hard work. I know that I've always felt this way about it when I'd get my meezly little paychecks (after busting my butt), and then see how much of it was used for taxes. Then Every week it's, stretch stretch, stretch (and with little growth to my possessions). This is so many people's lives that are about to snap. Because, things are about to be stretched even further. 

No election is going to save it.

To me, even choosing to do a months worth of work in two weeks, and then wait two more weeks before I receive that due payment is going to screw my entire system up. I *depend* on weekly overtime. As do many others.

Without it the ship sinks. No matter how "hard I work."

I don't see this going well, if ever put up on the block for companies. I don't see why any of them would turn that down. 

Our pro is a more flexible schedule. 

Whoopee

---

(09-04-2024, 08:53 PM)Schmoe Wrote: @"FlickerOfLight"#259 

I like my job mostly.  We made parts for the suspension on the Mars Rover, which of course was interesting.  I didn't think anything of it at the time when the customer was JPL.  Which makes it all the more frustrating that the people I work with ruin it.  I get it, it's a machine shop.  I don't expect to work with Einsteins and Nobel laureates.  But at the same time, fuck.  Whatever happened to pride in your work?

I 100 percent agree with, "Whatever happened to pride in our work."

I'm one, like you, who does take pride in my work. No matter how big or small the job is. 

Like you I'm surrounded by people who have no pride in anything, much less their job, and so I step up my game because I have to pick up the slack.

So, we work harder, with more frustration, with no raises coming our way for our extra effort.


That's really cool. I've never done any machine work quite like that.

So, you  machined parts for the Mars rover? Wow...that's avmjnd blow, Schmoe. Cheers

That's it exactly, the frustration that comes along with working with people like that.  I'm tired of doing other people's jobs for them.

We make all different types of springs, from tiny torsion springs, springs that go into reels for mid-air refueling, to springs that separate the booster for submarine-based tomahawk missiles.  The particular springs that went into the Mars Rover suspension were wide constant force springs.  It was a very simple part, but it was cool to be a part of it.

A good example of doing other people's jobs for them:  basically we set up a machine for a particular part, then samples are sent to an inspection office, they get approved, then the parts are ran off.  

I had an inspector come out and give me shit for a part having the wrong stencil on it.  I didn't set the machine up, the parameters of the part aren't specified except for a few things like inside diameter, length, etc.  I said, so I have to do my job, the person who set up the machine's job, the supervisor's job, AND your job.  How does that make sense?  I laughed at him and told him to get fucked.  Never heard another peep about it at least.  And I'm not arrogant and I hate tooting my own horn, but I've made scrap parts twice in the 10 years I've been here, so I was pretty pissed.

(09-05-2024, 03:44 AM)FlickerOfLight Wrote:

(09-04-2024, 10:05 PM)Schmoe Wrote:

(09-04-2024, 09:29 PM)FlickerOfLight Wrote: Growth of CEO compensation (1978–2020). Using the realized compensation measure, compensation of the top CEOs increased 1,322.2% from 1978 to 2020 (adjusting for inflation). Top CEO compensation grew roughly 60% faster than stock market growth during this period and far eclipsed the slow 18.0% growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation. CEO granted compensation rose 970.2% from 1978 to 2020.

Now add in all the inflation over the years for the working class.

https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-in-2020/

This is the problem. We shouldn't be struggling like this. 

It's not that people don't want to work hard. It's that they're tired of getting breadcrumbs for their hard work. I know that I've always felt this way about it when I'd get my meezly little paychecks (after busting my butt), and then see how much of it was used for taxes. Then Every week it's, stretch stretch, stretch (and with little growth to my possessions). This is so many people's lives that are about to snap. Because, things are about to be stretched even further. 

No election is going to save it.

To me, even choosing to do a months worth of work in two weeks, and then wait two more weeks before I receive that due payment is going to screw my entire system up. I *depend* on weekly overtime. As do many others.

Without it the ship sinks. No matter how "hard I work."

I don't see this going well, if ever put up on the block for companies. I don't see why any of them would turn that down. 

Our pro is a more flexible schedule. 

Whoopee

---

(09-04-2024, 08:53 PM)Schmoe Wrote: @"FlickerOfLight"#259 

I like my job mostly.  We made parts for the suspension on the Mars Rover, which of course was interesting.  I didn't think anything of it at the time when the customer was JPL.  Which makes it all the more frustrating that the people I work with ruin it.  I get it, it's a machine shop.  I don't expect to work with Einsteins and Nobel laureates.  But at the same time, fuck.  Whatever happened to pride in your work?

I 100 percent agree with, "Whatever happened to pride in our work."

I'm one, like you, who does take pride in my work. No matter how big or small the job is. 

Like you I'm surrounded by people who have no pride in anything, much less their job, and so I step up my game because I have to pick up the slack.

So, we work harder, with more frustration, with no raises coming our way for our extra effort.


That's really cool. I've never done any machine work quite like that.

So, you  machined parts for the Mars rover? Wow...that's avmjnd blow, Schmoe. Cheers

That's it exactly, the frustration that comes along with working with people like that.  I'm tired of doing other people's jobs for them.

We make all different types of springs, from tiny torsion springs, springs that go into reels for mid-air refueling, to springs that separate the booster for submarine-based tomahawk missiles.  The particular springs that went into the Mars Rover suspension were wide constant force springs.  It was a very simple part, but it was cool to be a part of it.

A good example of doing other people's jobs for them:  basically we set up a machine for a particular part, then samples are sent to an inspection office, they get approved, then the parts are ran off.  

I had an inspector come out and give me shit for a part having the wrong stencil on it.  I didn't set the machine up, the parameters of the part aren't specified except for a few things like inside diameter, length, etc.  I said, so I have to do my job, the person who set up the machine's job, the supervisor's job, AND your job.  How does that make sense?  I laughed at him and told him to get fucked.  Never heard another peep about it at least.  And I'm not arrogant and I hate tooting my own horn, but I've made scrap parts twice in the 10 years I've been here, so I was pretty pissed.

I can imagine; if I've goofed, I know it, own up to it, and fix it immediately. Rarely do my own mistakes get by me. I can imagine you are meticulous as well. Jobs like that don't usually* hire slack workers. But, here we are, eh?

Another good point you made is, now we are expected to do three or four additional jobs that weren't even in our job descriptions. All because companies are hiring labor as cheap as possible. So, they're getting what they paid for. And anyone who has a kick of self pride steps up and does whatever necessary to get the job done, and done right. And yeah, I may make a few dollars more for my efforts, but in the long run, I'm getting worked like a rented mule and beat the hell up from "hustling" for 33 years already. I'm not even close to being done yet. 

I am worried about our future. It does not look good, no matter how its looked at. Globally. There's not anywhere to even flee to, that I can see. I'm not rolling in dough, so I don't have any bunkers in New Zealand for when they finally decide to push them buttons.

Im annoyed with this.  ya know.

Cheers.