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Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 12-31-2022
As I have mentioned before, I am living/squatting in a house that was converted into an auto/machine shop and parts warehouse with very little space and massive amounts of chaotic clutter. I moved from a fully furnished 1800 sq ft home with a decked out garage/shop into basically a bedroom and a half so my own disaster was added into the already existing disaster but I’m fine with that. I’m not fancy. I also drive a 40 year old car too! Lol!
For example, this is what used to be the living room of this house. The rest of the place is pretty much the same and I have a huge combo mill and machine lathe in my kitchen!
I have one fairly large room, the master bedroom (you’re not supposed to call it that anymore) with a big sectional sofa and 60” TV. It is a cozy space where I can entertain guests comfortably with some degree of respectability with a boho/laidback flair. Not that I do that anymore as I dumped all my friends and quit going out to the bar and dragging folks home for an after party but it is nice to have the option.
The "nice" room
Since I moved in here three years ago, I have been sleeping (or trying to) on a very worn out bed that unfolds from the couch providing the most miserable nights of sleep I can remember so I decided to do something about it as my old bones just couldn’t take it any more so I purchased a small Twin XL size hybrid innerspring & memory foam mattress in a box on sale from Amazon. link
I didn’t want to just plop it down in my one good room that is reasonably nice as that would ruin its use as a living room so I decided to make room for it in the one other room I have access to. This room is mostly filled with storage, a workbench, my sim rig and my corner desk where I spend most of my time and there simply wasn’t room so I decided to tear things apart and move things around to make room.
I thought before I got too carried away, I would take a picture.
I managed to find space and put the mattress on the floor. I’ve been sleeping there for a month now and I really love my new bed but it is hard to get out of and some of the stuff I took out to make the room for it somehow needs to come back into this room so I have come up with a plan to build a bed frame that is also a storage rack.
How things are now. My "project" will be going where the bed is and that metal workbench will be moved up against the wall.
I have attached my plan below in the PDF. I am hoping some of you guys that know more about this stuff than I do will take a look at it and see if there are any problems with my design? It isn’t anything fancy and is just using lumber from Homo Depot but I think it will do?
I realize that 2x4s and 2x6s aren’t actually that size as shown in my blueprint but I will accommodate for that when building. I have built several things before and am not a complete novice.
I have a table saw that I will be making a crosscut jig for to get perfect cuts. I also have a circular saw and a long metal guide for cutting sheets of plywood and hand tools galore, 3 electric sanders and gaggle of different kinds of big and small clamps. For the majority of the joinery of key components, I am going to be using dowels for strength and have an awesome new dowel jig I’ll be putting to good use as my old one was crap. I have a pocket hole jig too but don’t think I’ll be using it for this project?
One thing I am not sure of is I will be corner joining two long 86” boards together and am unsure how many dowels to use or how far apart they should be so any advice would be appreciated.
I am hoping I can con my ex-hubby into coming over next week with his giant Sprinter van to take me to Home Depot so I can get started. He promised to take that metal cabinet off the wall too. I will update things as they progress.
I'm figuring it will probably cost around $550 and that's before I add the accessories like drapes and stuff and a TV
Yeah, I'm crazy, no doubt!
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-01-2023
The purpose of this thread wasn’t to extol the virtues of living an alternative/underground lifestyle or virtue signal my lack of materialistic, consumer driven aesthetic but rather to reach out to those with more woodworking/building experience than I have to look over my design and point out any flaws or make suggestions in ways I can improve my plan or cut costs.
The space I have is limited and this is a way I think I can optimize it. Granted, most people would be appalled to live in such rustic/industrial conditions but believe it or not, I have lived in worse and I am not paying a cent to live here other than utilities and since I’m not out to impress anyone, I am quite happy here. It is very private and quiet and built like a fortress surrounded by 12’ high block walls and high steel gates and I feel particularly safe here. When zombie hoards are roaming the streets looking for braaains, this is where you want to be.
Besides that, the combined time I have lived under this roof is longer than I have lived anywhere. Back when it was still a regular normal home, I first moved in here in 1985 when I got married. Twelve years then and three years now means I have dwelt between these walls twice as long as I have ever been in one place for my entire life so believe it or not, this is home to me. I refer to it as "The Compound".
The images are more clearly shown in the PDF but I will post the contents here for those reluctant to download. I am confident in my skills and that I can make something solid and attractive. I have made several things before including a cabinet to hold 1,000 pound aquarium and my mother, who taught me most of what I know, and I built an entire add-on room ourselves so I am pretty handy. What I am looking for is some feedback on my plan.
Most of my ideas came from YouTube. I’ve watched about 20 videos on building loft beds and bunk beds and have combined several elements from each in my design.
Thanks. Happy New Year!
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - BIAD - 01-01-2023
This guy comes up with some ideas.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Ninurta - 01-01-2023
I'm unsure how you plan to join the sideboards to the headboard and footboard, but I would consider the use of lag bolts (probably with countersunk heads for aesthetics) rather than dowels for those joints, as memory foam mattresses can be rather heavy. I have one on our bed, a California King, and it's pretty much dead weight.
The addition of a support leg about half way down the side boards supporting the mattress might be a good idea, too, for the same reason, to prevent the mattress from eventually creating a "sway" in the sideboards.
I do like the design with overhead shelving and underbed storage as a space saver, though!
.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-01-2023
Thanks for the suggestions and comments.
The butt joined corners of the bed and two shelf frames are definitely going to be joined with dowels as that method is stronger than either regular screws or pocket hole screws, all glued of course. Plus dowel joining is kind of fun and feels old school.
I intend to join the four upright leg pieces together with dowels too but since they’re 86 inches long, I might seek out some professional advice because I’ve never tried to dowel join something that long before and I’m not sure if regularly spaced singles or regularly spaced groups are the way to go? I might make a practice/test piece first?
For joining the three assembled frames to the uprights, I did consider using lag bolts but really want to keep the exterior free from any fasteners, however, this would facilitate disassembly should the need arise.
Most of my ideas came from this video although not with pocket holes. At about 6:40 as he begins assembling the components, he just uses wood screws to connect the bed frames to the ends. I’ll probably do this for the two upper shelf frames but for the lower, I might still use screws but set them deeper and cut plugs to cover them? I realize that in spite of my planning and having a good vision of this in my head, I may have to improvise a bit along the way?
I figure for the bed layer, the slats topped by a ¾” sheet of MDF will be strong enough? The mattress weighs 70 pounds and at 5’5” I am not a large person. I acknowledge the bed will be a bitch to change sheets on without walk around access to both sides as I have discovered with where it is now on the floor but I’ll deal with it.
Using joist hangers for the two shelf layers came from another video. I’ll probably cover the underside of the middle shelf with something to make it pretty and so I don’t have to look up at rafters.
I would love to have a surface planer but will make do with sanding. I jointer would be nice too but I have a low profile hand plane and a 10” bench plane to use if needed. There’s something satisfying about hand planing a board and seeing the long thin curls of wood it makes and there’s just something about the smell of wood when you’re doing stuff with it that I find engaging.
Thanks again. I am hoping to get my initial lumber run on Thursday when hopefully it will have stopped raining here.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-06-2023
Not that anyone cares or is interested but i have an update!
Lucky day at the Homo Depot. Found some unexpectedly straight and not bad at all lumber to get started without having to sort through a billion rejects to find the good ones.
What I got:
- 14 - 2 x 6 x 8ft
- 15 – 2 x 4 x 8ft
- 4 – 1 x 4 x 8ft
- 2 – 4 x 8 sheets ¼” plywood
- 1 – 4 x 8 sheet ¾” MDF
- 24 – 4” joist hangers
- 8 – 2” corner brackets
- 2 – 16oz bottles Titebond wood glue
- Plus a 4 x 8 sheet of foil back foam insulation (for another project)
They didn't charge me for the orange HD bucket the hangers and brackets were in.
Prices were actually a little less than I expected. Came out to $385.66 + $32.01 tax. What I didn’t expect was how heavy a sheet of ¾” 4 x 8 MDF was – OMG!. With all the loading and unloading plus helping the ex-hub load some of his heavy crap to take home with him, I am completely spent and know I am going to be one sorry dog come tomorrow.
Stored all the long boards in the kitchen next to the lathe where they’ll stay clean and dry. Stored the 4 x 8 sheets in the hallway. Rearranged benches and tables and things in my covered outside work area and worked my ass off.
Still need to buy a box of screws to hold the joist hangers and sandpaper for my palm and disks for random orbital sander plus primer and paint. I should end up pretty close to my $550.00 budget?
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Snarl - 01-06-2023
Have you taken dust control into consideration?
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 02:15 AM)Snarl Wrote: Have you taken dust control into consideration?
LOL! Maybe you missed the part about living in a house converted to an auto/machine shop/junkyard that was more or less abandoned for 10+ years? After spending a day last week cleaning out accumulated leaves and debris and devoting most of the afternoon today to moving things around to create an open workspace for my project, dust collection is simply not an issue.
To give you an example, here is the "back yard" where I will be working. Mega junk, dead Suburban and 2 full size electric lifts.
It's a beautiful sight!
Out front from the street side, you would never know what lies within. House is nicely painted with a newish roof and looks well maintained and respectable. I'll be doing the sawing, sanding, planing and drilling outside where I can just use a leaf blower for cleanup. When I start to assemble the components, I'll probably do it inside because the painted bare concrete floors are a little nicer than the outside but we'll see when I get to that point. I've still got a few outside things to get set up and situated and my table saw moved out there and a trip to Harbor Freight for a few more cheap bar clamps besides the six I already have and I want to DIY make a crosscut sled but I should be getting things rolling right away.
After all the lifting and moving crap today. I may need a day off for my old body to recover?
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Snarl - 01-06-2023
(01-06-2023, 08:09 AM)Freija Wrote:(01-06-2023, 02:15 AM)Snarl Wrote: Have you taken dust control into consideration?
LOL! Maybe you missed the part about living in a house converted to an auto/machine shop/junkyard that was more or less abandoned for 10+ years?
It's a beautiful sight!
LOL with you. I just wanted you to have another chance to show off those digs. That place is a good find if you ask me. What you've got, I'm working on building ... and I know already I'll never get that far. I'm kind'a jealous.
(01-06-2023, 08:09 AM)Freija Wrote: I may need a day off for my old body to recover?
Do you have the leeway to haul off any actual junk and recover some floor space? I wouldn't make it look so appealing someone would want to take it away from you.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - ABNARTY - 01-06-2023
You have a really cool setup! Most folks strive to get a machine shop, you moved into one with machinery included. Score!
As far as the builds, I commend you on the layouts. Well done.
I know everyone on here has already made some comments. I went to school for cabinet making and house building so take my thoughts for what you will...
- I see you already purchased the materials but I would have gone with plywood all the way down. MDF is nice and flat but it is not structurally sound. If it will bear load, it needs to be reinforced all the way around. By the time one does the reinforcing, you may as well have gone with plywood or lumber that can bear a load.
- I noticed a lot of butt joints and you mentioned dowels as they are strong. They can be if they are substantial enough for the stress. Please be advised wood screws and TBIII make a compelling bond too and are much easier and more forgiving. But that is your call.
- I have no idea how much movement will be on the bed (please don't take that the wrong way) but steel connections stay firm much longer than wood fiber to wood fiber.
Please send pics when it's done! I am excited to see it.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-06-2023
”Snarl” Wrote:= Do you have the leeway to haul off any actual junk and recover some floor space? I wouldn't make it look so appealing someone would want to take it away from you.
It’s not my junk. If anything, I wish that dead Suburban was on the other side of the house with the other dead car. Both sides and the back of the house are surrounded by 10’ high block walls with equally high metal and wood gates and I’m pretty sure everyone in this neighborhood is well armed so security isn’t an issue..
”Abnarty” Wrote:- I see you already purchased the materials but I would have gone with plywood all the way down. MDF is nice and flat but it is not structurally sound. If it will bear load, it needs to be reinforced all the way around. By the time one does the reinforcing, you may as well have gone with plywood or lumber that can bear a load.
I had a friend suggest MDF for the bed layer because it is smooth. A 4 x 8 sheet of ¾” sanded plywood was also a lot more expensive but after realizing a 4 x 8 sheet of ¾” MDF weighs 88 pounds per Google and more than I can manage on my own, I do wish I would have gone with plywood that might have been a little easier to work with. I’m going to need help moving the MDF before I can even cut it to size. As far as structural strength, I might increase the number of 1 x 4 slats underneath and cross my fingers. The mattress should distribute the weight fairly evenly and the MDF won’t be supporting much more than 220 pounds in total.
”Abnarty” Wrote:- I noticed a lot of butt joints and you mentioned dowels as they are strong. They can be if they are substantial enough for the stress. Please be advised wood screws and TBIII make a compelling bond too and are much easier and more forgiving. But that is your call.
I am reconsidering using dowels for the outside butt jointed corners of the three frame layers. My main thought with using dowels was cosmetic as well as structural integrity. Screws into end grain seems weaker but would certainly be easier. Since those joins will actually be covered up by the upright legs, I might indeed use screws, glue and some metal 90° corner brackets. I already purchased corner brackets for the two upper layers.
I’m still going to try to use dowels for the upright corner legs even though at 86” long, that will be tricky. In this case it is for aesthetics. I could use screws and button caps but wanted the smooth look. If this proves too difficult, I will use screws and have the gizmos to cut my own holes and plugs.
”Abnarty” Wrote:- I have no idea how much movement will be on the bed (please don't take that the wrong way) but steel connections stay firm much longer than wood fiber to wood fiber.
LOL! I wish! When I made the decision to go with a 38” x 80” Twin XL mattress, I figured I probably won’t be sharing that space with anyone else for the rest of my life because how many single 68 year old grandmas ever actually get any anyway?
I really appreciate the input. I’m not quite as sore today as I expected so I’m off to Harbor Freight for more cheap clamps and to hopefully not impulse buy too much then to the market. Time permitting, I’ll get outside and figure out how I’m going to arrange things and take some more pics
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - kdog - 01-07-2023
So when can I and my love come over to stay for awhile for a free , working vacation ?
We has redneck skills.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-09-2023
Finally getting things underway. I unbolted my grinder from this old bench and took it inside. I made this bench in 1988.
Hubby at the time and I were sponsored motorcycle racers and we got two brand new unboxed Suzuki GSX-R 750’s motorcycles to turn into race bikes. The metal frame base of this bench was from one of those boxes.
I moved it into my working space near the back Arcadia door. Notice the solvent tank and that big green machine next to it which is an automatic dishwasher for transmissions. You wouldn’t believe the heat and steam that comes out of that thing when it is running. I had this old super long piece of plywood I laid on top of the bench to have more room to work.
Because my project is mostly going to be cutting 8 ft boards, I decided I needed a cross-cut sled for better support and accuracy. I got started by cutting a 1 x 1 into smaller pieces and massaged them to fit the miter slots on my little table saw which took some sanding and planing. When satisfied with the results, I attached them to the bottom of the sled with glue and some countersunk screws.
By this time, even with a long ass piece of plywood for a working surface, things were getting kind of cluttered and out of hand.
So I found my box of pegboard hooks and tidied things up a bit. It helped.
I cut two pieces of ¾” plywood and glued them together. I also sunk in some screws to make sure things were tight. Then I ran it through my saw again for a nice straight edge but it still took some sanding and planing to get everything perfect
Clamp-o-rama!
I got the front piece permanently attached to the sled then set the glued pieces in place with a screw at each end. What I will do tomorrow to finish is dial in to make it accurate and perfectly square. There is a 5-cut method and a 3-cut method to do this. You cut a piece of wood on all sides checking to make sure the cuts are square and move the glued together pieces as needed then permanently secure it.
Once my sled is done and perfect, I’ll start cutting the 2 x 6 and 2 x 4 lumber to size. Then I’ll do a lot of sanding!
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-09-2023
Interesting.
I made this as two separate posts one after the other because it wouldn't let me have more than 5 attachments.
I found an error and went to correct. It tells me I cannot edit because there are too many attachments and it is all in one post, not two. Weird?
The two motorcycles we got were not "unboxed". They were still in their factory shipping container/box.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-12-2023
Well, my redneck building project is slowly morphing into something a bit more posh, at least in my visions!
I've made some test cuts and a test dowel butt joint on two 12" pieces of 2 x 4 and made a few discoveries - it looks like crap but my fancy dowel jig works really well.
Off the shelf the lumber has rounded corners. On the outside upright legs where it would be most noticeable and crude looking, this creates an ugly seam where the 2x4's are joined to the 2x6s.
My first thought was to use a hand plane but that would be eight 86" long surfaces to plane perfectly without screwing up and I figured that was unlikely and too much labor.
My next thought was to run them through my table saw and buzz off 3/32nds or so which is doable on shorter pieces but one little boo boo or a slight warp in the board would either be uneven or cause an unsightly gouge so I scrapped that idea.
Then I went looking for an electric hand planer. They would probably do the job well enough if I was careful but they have their drawbacks and limitations, I've never used one and they cost around $100 and up.
So with unexpected cash on hand, I decided to hell with my budget for this project. I was already over anyway after buying screws and sanding disks and misc junk and you only live once right and I ain't getting any younger!
I knew what I needed was a jointer but they're usually really expensive, like up to multiple thousands of dollars for professional grade equipment so I decided to see what consumer/entry-level stuff was available from the big box home improvement stores.
I found one almost too good to be true then turned to YouTube for reviews. Surprisingly, with the exception of one small niggle, they were all positive saying this was a good and highly recommended value for the money and exceeded all expectations for budget ranged gear.
So I pulled the trigger. Free overnight delivery from Home Depot - $275.13 Total with tax. Yay! It will even do the face side of a 2x6 which will save sanding.
I spent most of the afternoon putting it together and dealing with the one small issue noted on YouTube, namely getting the fence square to the table but most of the time was spent figuring out where I'm going to put it. I'll be doing long boards so need some kind of in and out feed support at the same height as the table surface but as the sun was going down and I was putting things away, I had an epiphany and figured it out.
I'm also going to buy a roundover bit for cheapo my palm router to use on several edges for a more finished and less barnyard look.
Having something I'm excited about and motivated to do has been good for the head!
<eta>
I snagged one of the several unused shop vacs around here and now have official dust collection!
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 01-14-2023
The prior day's epiphany turned into today's project after another day of running around picking up a few extra bits to the tune of several hundred more dollars.
The problem of what to do with or where to put my new jointer has been solved by a piece of junk I've been meaning to throw out for three years.I had this old entertainment center or whatever it was I scavenged off the street 10 years ago and modified by cutting off the top part. At my old house, I used this to support a desk extension I made so it was mostly hidden and I had CDs and DVDs stored in the two ends that open up. When I moved I should have thrown it out but thought it might come in handy for something one day and today was that day!
It had a glass door covering the opening that I removed and stashed away for some future crazy project. Drilled a few holes and bolted my jointer to it and it is perfect.
Almost perfect.
It is really heavy and I'd rather not store it outside so I came up with a plan make it mobile but the problem was if just bolted wheels to the bottom, that would make it a little high to work with and potentially unstable so I made a little dolly for it and a ramp to get it up over the threshold and into the house.
Tip up one end, slide the dolly under and away it went! I gave myself a pat on the back and told myself how clever I was!
________________________________________________
The jointer and my table saw with my cross-cut sled now are the same height and also the same height as two benches so I have some end support for cutting the long boards. Those 8 footers are still a bit unwieldy so clamped a little piece of corner molding to my sled and used a bigger clamp (not shown) to keep the piece being cut against the square edge and it worked great.
I'm actually ready to get started but fear I won't get very far until middle of next week. I'm sim-racing with my league from noon to 2:30 on Saturday and is supposed to rain Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. Wah!
Actually, I'm racing Saturday, Monday and Wednesday at noon, Thursday night from 7:30 until 10:00 and Sunday from 6:00 to 8:00 and I practice 1 to 2 hours for each event so it takes up a lot of time but I told myself I wasn't going to ditch one hobby for another so my sleeping pod with storage shelves comes second.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 04-29-2023
(drunk post)
I have been negligent in keeping up with this thread and progress on my project but let me say, I've come a million miles since I started, spent a lot of dough and have tackled many side projects along the way.
I've always needed something to be passionate about and a way to express my creativity. I've done many things from advanced airbrush painting, to digital art, traditional art to learning the skill of driving a hardcore racing simulator while always challenging myself to do better or to learn more.
My journey into woodworking seems to be the next phase in my interests? Being raised by a farm girl with a lot of varied skills I seem to have inherited, I've always built things and been handy with tools.
I'm looking at my investment, a new table saw (my old one was 10 years old and shit), a 12" sliding compound miter saw, a 13" spiral cut thickness planer and the jointer I showed above plus a shit ton of other new and hand tools, like router bits, belt sander, Forsterner bits, pocket hole jigs, router table and two routers, a new orbital sander to replace my old Ryobi I killed, an HVLP paint sprayer (including airbrushes, I now own 6 different paint sprayers), chisels, sharpening stones, 3 new saw blades and on and one with a lot of little stuff that has added up to a small fortune.
But I don't care. I am considering all of this bucket list stuff and something I've always wanted to do well but never had the resources to pursue things as I wanted. As you get older, one begins to think about their mortality more and taking care of all and those I wish I woulda's takes on greater importance.
I'm still a few weeks away from finishing what I started but something I thought would be easy has morphed into something else entirely. I didn't realize how massive and how heavy this would be and how hard it is to move around things really too heavy for me to lift so that's set me back a bit toward achieving completion and moving on to something else.
I have all the tools now to make everything I want except maybe a bandsaw that has me doing my research and watching reviews. Do I want to go entry level, about $400 or go for something more professional? ($1200 to $1500) I am so fortunate right now this is even a question.
I have a ton of pictures to share but I've been so busy lately I haven't even taken the photos off my phone yet but with my recent work emergency winding down, I hope for time to do that soon and share where things are at now.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Chiefsmom - 05-02-2023
Yes, please update with pictures!
68? and doing all of this?
I am in awe of you.
RE: Building a project with wood. Plan review requested - Freija - 05-03-2023
Chiefsmom, it's all you fault!
I have continued with updates in a new mega thread. It is HERE