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+--- Thread: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. (/showthread.php?tid=1801)
The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-16-2024
Even though I live in the same country as the famous fictional Detective Sherlock Holmes inhabited back
in the 1900's, a mystery arrived at my door late last year that I'm still in a puzzle about.
My son's girlfriend -who I will call 'Jill', lives with him in another town, but her parents live quite close to
my home. The whole estate has different styles of houses, but they all adhere to a certain modern approach.
Jill's parents own a garden where they keep Koi carp in a pond. Their home is at the end of a cul-de-sac.
The diagram below may assist.
The pond is situated near the end of their garden. A seven-foot fence divides their property from a narrow
footpath or walkway and other properties. the pond has a three-or-four-foot brick stone wall around it with
paving slabs on the top of the wall.
The grey in the diagram is an old wooden decking with outdoor seating against the high fence and a
similar high fence that separates them from another property. there is a grassed lawn between the pond
and the house and a large shed in the other corner of their garden.
.................................
Some time late in 2023, I was told that the female of the home had looked out of her window at around
10.30am and checked that all was well. She was aware that sometimes, one of the fish takes it into its head
to jump out and enjoy a flopping on the grass. Apparently, this had happened about ten times since they got
them.
Not long after, she looked out to her garden and sure enough, a flabby tail was wearliy flapping for assistance.
Approaching the land-loving carp, she saw that more than one of them had left their lily-decorated home and
were now laid quietly on the lawn. However, all the Koi were laid in the grass and many of them were dead.
Closing the distance, the woman saw many of the fishes had been ripped to pieces or at the very least, had
a lethal bite taken out of them.
.................................
Recently, otters were seen on the river that passes our area and I've seen a fox regularly patrol a footpath
near my own home. During the telling of this tale, my son suggested mink were the culprits of this unseen
slaughter. I can only say I've never heard of any neighbours -many who are daily dog-walkers along the river
side, relate any account of daring mink invading the quiet suburb of Boy In A Dress.
So I guess the question is, what animal in the north of England can haul heavy -and willing, fish from a five
-foot wide deep pool surrounded by a wall in broad-daylight and situated close to humans and then be brave
enough to consume their flesh in a place surrounded by fences?
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - kdog - 02-16-2024
I had a Koi pond for 12 years and never had any problems. But I had a work buddy who lived in the country with a big fishing pond. Ever so often they would find several fish on the banks under similar circumstances as those Koi. Turns out it was otters killing them. There is a creek on their property about 1/2 mile from this pond.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - EndtheMadnessNow - 02-17-2024
Culprit caught in the act:
I can offer a kitty guard.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Ninurta - 02-17-2024
Mink might be a good call if such lives around there. The only critters I know of that go in for wholesale slaughter like that just for fun are humans and weasels, of which minks are a variety. Otters are also a fair bet, depending on whether most of the fish were actually eaten or not, rather than just killed for fun... and otters do look a lot like giant weasels, and they don't mind getting wet...
I've known of weasels to get into hen houses around here and absolutely slaughter a bunch of chickens, then just leave them laying dead without eating any of them.
.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-17-2024
Thank you for your replies and I will certainly be musing over them with the family involved.
The fact that this all occurred during daylight hours, involved ALL the fish dying and taking
place in such a confined human-inhabited area, made my wife and I wonder if Ninurta's
suggestions of a human may be the culprit.
...............................
The cul-de-sac comes from a busy road, to avoid being seen due to neighbours, being hit by
a passing vehicle or finding a lead-tied dog gnashing its teeth, a predator's best tactic would
be to come at night. 'Jill's' mother assured my son that this all happened during late morning.
If we assume the invader(s) are more at home in natural surroundings, it/they would have to
travel a few miles following the river, enter the estate area by crossing at least one busy road,
and then decide on how to approach the location of their prey. If entering from the rear, the
high fence has to be -either vaulted or crawled under which reduces the type of predator to
perform the vandalism as any gap between the fence and the ground would only be an inch
at best
...............................
Granted, a couple of the Koi were said to be almost skeletal and others deceased from chunks
being taken out of them, a possible result of opportunistic carrion effects. Crows and seagulls
do hang about close by due to flooded arable land near the river and I'm sure a quick bite to
a floundering fish on a lawn from these birds could be a factor to their eventual condition, but
it's that wall around the pond that still draws my attention.
I know due to my week-long caring of the pond that the liner -the thick rubber mat that keeps
the water from being absorbed into the ground, leaked. The owners told me about it and how I
would need to top-up the water every other day. This would have a bearing on the depth of the
pond and with the height of the wall, this is another point that could rule out a small predator
who fancies its chances at a slow-moving meal. It was alarming how deep the water dropped
during my short time at feeding the Koi and refilling the pond.
Many of the Koi were found a yard or so away from the pond and so it's reasonable to think
that their killer(s) were powerful enough to enter the premises unseen by any neighbours,
know that this particular property had fish, lean over the foot-deep wall, grab the heavy carp
and then take them individually to their final place on the lawn -in full view of anyone with
the confidence that an escape wasn't a concern, before partly-consuming some of them.
In my opinion, whatever did this either had to have strong neck muscles, dexterous limbs or
hands.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Ninurta - 02-17-2024
A few points to ponder.
The road-crossing and the killing don't necessarily have to be done at the same time. The culprit could conceivably cross the roadway under cover of night, then lay low on site until it decided to kill at mid-morning.
Weasels, minks, and ferrets - "mustelids", I think they are called collectively - are much like cats and rats in the respect that they can get their entire bodies through apertures big enough to admit their heads. There doesn't have to be a noticeable breach in order for them to enter. That's how they get into chicken coops and lay waste to their inhabitants.
Depending on how large the koi are, an otter-sized culprit may be called for. Additionally, otters are not afraid to get right into the water with their prey. I once worked at a site that had a tailings-pond that was about an acre in size, and the owners had stocked it with some sort of carp to keep the algae down. Some of those carp had survived long enough to get around 3 feet long, or just a bit over, and otters sometimes had a field day fishing for them right in the water with them. I've sat on a hill above that pond and watched them at work, frolicking and hunting carp among the water-weeds growing from the bottom of the pond.
Otters also are in possession of the strong necks and dexterous hands that you mentioned in the above post.
Another culprit at that pond was a "fishing hawk", a fairly large bird of prey that would sometimes visit the pond for a meal. I've watched that hawk fly in, then hover over a single point of the pond stationary like a helicopter for several minutes, then suddenly fold his wings and dive right into the pond after some unlucky victim exposed enough of itself near enough the surface for the hawk to strike. More often than not, the hawk flew away dripping, carrying it's next meal in it's talons.
Turtles sometimes preyed on the smaller denizens of that pond, but I seriously doubt that a turtle could be the culprit in this case, in a smaller back-yard pond small enough to be contained by a pond liner. There's probably just no way it could go unseen and unnoticed in the water.
Honestly, I don't know enough about the local fauna in that part of England to make a very educated guess - I'm just stabbing in the dark here.
.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-17-2024
From my recollection, the fish ranged from almost two feet long down to 8-9 inches. The large ones
were fat as carp are prone to be.
I'll go along with your otter suggestion because I believe the nous needed to leave the nearby river
in search in search of the same food that could be found in their own habitat is applicable when it
comes to otters. Curiosity and these intelligent animals go together like BIAD and Candy-floss!
In regards of other critters in this immediate area, there are foxes, hedgehogs, squirrels and the
occasional buzzard.
But as a local newspaper reported in early December last year...
'...During a walk alongside the River Tees in Darlington The Northern Echo Camera Club
member Peter Oughton managed to get the rare sighting, after admitting that he'd
spent years trying to take photos of otters in Darlington.
Alongside some stunning images submitted by Mr Oughton, he put the caption:
" I finally got my first sightings of the Darlington otter today. "I've only been looking
for a few years after everyone telling me about them...'
'...Back in 2007, The Northern Echo reported that dog walkers have regularly seen
several otters on the River Tees, near Darlington. At least two adults and two cubs
were spotted...'
In the comment section of the article, I see that otters do invade the town centre where a
subsidiary of the river mentioned above flows through, so the culprits who destroyed the
carp may well have been otters.
'...SuperPooper
Rare? I see them all the time down Victoria Embankment.
Beatle Juice
Just about to say the same thing. Early morning is best to spot them.
Richard Taylor
There have been otter sightings on the Skerne at Victoria Embankment and in
South Park, but a lot of the sightings (not all) are actually of mink. Easy to mix
them up especially in low light.
mugsytop
I have seen them at the skerne 5 arches on the way to work at 5 in the morning.
You can see there wet tracks on the tarmac path sometimes as well...'
This final comment mentions a bridge called '5 Arches', this railway structure is only
1/2-a-mile away from where the Koi were slain.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Ninurta - 02-18-2024
(02-17-2024, 06:23 PM)BIAD Wrote:Quote:mugsytop
I have seen them at the skerne 5 arches on the way to work at 5 in the morning.
You can see there wet tracks on the tarmac path sometimes as well...'
This final comment mentions a bridge called '5 Arches', this railway structure is only
1/2-a-mile away from where the Koi were slain.
Is that "tarmac path" the same path as the walkway bordering on the koi pond?
.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-18-2024
(02-18-2024, 08:13 AM)Ninurta Wrote: Is that "tarmac path" the same path as the walkway bordering on the koi pond?
No. The pathway behind the the property where the Koi were is a couple of hundred yards away from
the river and the 'tarmac path' mentioned regarding the 5 Arch bridge may well be a mile away if one
follows the meandering footpaths. It's quite a distance to walk and there's a very busy road between
'Jill's'-mother's estate and that particular bridge. However, if an otter was looking for a new place to live,
following the river wouldn't be too hard.
Here is the bridge mentioned, it's a railway bridge over the same river that will eventually pass by the
estate where the pond resides. When I was a kid, it was nothing more but a muddy short-cut, but around
two decades ago the Council decided to pave it with tarmac and a lot of restoration to the area.
They even added a footbridge with a steam train's funnel to boast the town's connection to George Stephenson's
input to the train industry!
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Chiefsmom - 02-27-2024
Forgive my ignorance, but do you have racoons over there?
Strong, stupidly brave and brazen. And seem to kill sometimes just because they can. Or something interrupts them.
I know they could handle the weight, as they got my male adult duck. Just took off his head and left him in their night box with the others, who were unharmed.
They can squeeze into tight spots to hide. And they are smart. And seem to adapt well to urban living.
Just a thought.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-27-2024
(02-27-2024, 06:56 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote: Forgive my ignorance, but do you have racoons over there?
Strong, stupidly brave and brazen. And seem to kill sometimes just because they can. Or something interrupts them.
I know they could handle the weight, as they got my male adult duck. Just took off his head and left him in their night box with the others, who were unharmed.
They can squeeze into tight spots to hide. And they are smart. And seem to adapt well to urban living.
Just a thought.
No, we don't have raccoons here in Britain.
As far as carnivores are concerned, it's accepted we have Wildcat, Feral cat, Red fox, Badger,
Otter, Pine marten, Stoat, Weasel, Polecat, the Feral ferret and the American mink.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Ninurta - 02-27-2024
(02-27-2024, 08:02 PM)BIAD Wrote: No, we don't have raccoons here in Britain.
Do you want some? I could potentially pack up a care package for you, but the postman might need to be forewarned about an incoming package with a bunch of chittering and snarling emanating from it....
.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-28-2024
(02-27-2024, 09:12 PM)Ninurta Wrote:(02-27-2024, 08:02 PM)BIAD Wrote: No, we don't have raccoons here in Britain.
Do you want some? I could potentially pack up a care package for you, but the postman might need to be forewarned about an incoming package with a bunch of chittering and snarling emanating from it....
The shipping cost concerns me along with the notion that these raccoons may not coexist well with the dog-walkers.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Bally002 - 02-28-2024
(02-28-2024, 01:05 PM)BIAD Wrote:Yeah I can see that. Wonder how they'd fare on the Grey Hound track during training.(02-27-2024, 09:12 PM)Ninurta Wrote:(02-27-2024, 08:02 PM)BIAD Wrote: No, we don't have raccoons here in Britain.
Do you want some? I could potentially pack up a care package for you, but the postman might need to be forewarned about an incoming package with a bunch of chittering and snarling emanating from it....
The shipping cost concerns me along with the notion that these raccoons may not coexist well with the dog-walkers.
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - BIAD - 02-28-2024
(02-28-2024, 01:14 PM)Bally002 Wrote:(02-28-2024, 01:05 PM)BIAD Wrote: The shipping cost concerns me along with the notion that these raccoons may not coexist well with the dog-walkers.Yeah I can see that. Wonder how they'd fare on the Grey Hound track during training.
A veritable new industry awaits!!
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Snarl - 02-28-2024
(02-28-2024, 01:16 PM)BIAD Wrote:(02-28-2024, 01:14 PM)Bally002 Wrote:(02-28-2024, 01:05 PM)BIAD Wrote: The shipping cost concerns me along with the notion that these raccoons may not coexist well with the dog-walkers.Yeah I can see that. Wonder how they'd fare on the Grey Hound track during training.
A veritable new industry awaits!!
RE: The Enigma Of The Slain Koi. - Freija - 02-28-2024
Somebody had to say it.