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Bath time epiphany - GeauxHomeLittleD - 11-29-2023
Bath time runs extra long these days so I have lots of time to think while I'm in the tub. Today's line of random thoughts shifted to people who for one reason or another that I have either gone for extremely long periods of time without having contact or whom I have completely cut out of my life permanently. While in each case the "straw that broke the camel's back" may have been different they all have one thing in common: victim mentality.
Nothing is ever their fault, they feel entitled and like the world "owes" them. When they don't get their way they do their best to try to turn everyone against the object of their displeasure due to vindictiveness and the proven fact that "misery loves company". They never take responsibility for their actions and never apologize for the things they do.
Some might say they are narcissists, sociopaths, bi-polar, borderline personality, etc. but when push comes to shove their identity at its core is that of the perpetual victim. I see it plain as day.
This line of thought led me to consider today's society in general. Our society as a whole has been programmed to be a culture of victims. They were taught from early childhood that something was wrong with them and were constantly taken to doctors and fed various pharmaceuticals for the unforgiveable sin of just behaving like children whose parents were too busy or lazy to do the hard job of actually parenting them. They were not taught responsibility for their actions, rather they were taught that they were "mentally ill" and "it wasn't their fault" and now that they are technically adults many refuse to grow up and take responsibility for themselves or anything that they do or do not do.
This culture blames their parents and/or grandparents for everything wrong with their lives but at some point you would think they would realize that they are adults and responsible for themselves. I myself had a horrific childhood, worse than most could ever imagine, but once I became an adult I realized that it taught me that I could survive anything and that I could accomplish whatever I put my mind to, that I didn't need to rely on anyone but myself and that after all I had been through everything that came after was a piece of cake. But I digress...
So the epiphany is that whether I realized it at the time or not apparently I had and continue to have no patience for victim mentality- even before I ever heard that particular term- and it explains why my circle keeps getting smaller and smaller as the culture of victims grows larger and larger. I don't have time or patience for such nonsense. I'm kind of glad the years I have left on this planet are far less than the years I have been here because I don't want to be here when everyone is a "victim" and they run out of people to blame. Imagine the horror that awaits when they have to face the fact that they are the victims of their own mindsets!
Enough rambling. Have a good night Rogues!
RE: Bath time epiphany - Ninurta - 11-29-2023
You know, it kind of IS their parents' faults. Not for the reasons they blame their parents for, but because those parents were too lazy to parent them to begin with, too lazy to prepare them for life in the real world.
So their "victim mentality" CAN be set down at the feet of their parents - parents who took the time to have rug-rats, but then left them to their own devices in dealing with reality, rather than guiding and teaching them how it really is.
.
RE: Bath time epiphany - BIAD - 11-29-2023
For a few decades now, the social changes in community-living has been prompted by Governments to
rely on 'the system' to bring the needs of those who require them. That's why the physically and mentally
disabled have been moved from the benevolent level of society -people who struggle to contribute to a
healthy culture, to a rank that demands more bureaucracy from the very institution that promoted them.
The above may seem harsh in modern parlance, but caring for those who cannot benefit the tribe took
us from the cave to the stars. I believe it's called being civilised. But within that unity, those who wish
to separate a group for their nefarious reasons, know parenthood, humane adherence to the vulnerable
and a strong belief in family needs a long-term solution to destroy it.
What had once been accepted as standard parenthood have been displaced, a faceless structure now
utilises the many areas of communication to convince young people that the true administrator and
authority of their well-being are the many ministries designed to cater for a public.
The concept of life-experience and natural loving care for a child's growth has been repressed and the
benefits such a callous act are many to controlling system. Think back to when you were a child... how
much did you think about politics, sex and the woes of wealthy celebrities?
Todays mediums of intercourse and the drip-drip effects of yesteryear's television have cajoled humans
to distance themselves. Where once a person may've tapped on a neighbour's door to engage in debate
over a cup of coffee, adults and youngsters alike now bare their souls to people they may never meet
in their lifetimes and remoteness as an individual has become the norm. For an organisation seeking to
increase its need and ranks, singling out those who they wish to control via proselytization has become
easier.
It is within this slowly-built persuasion of undeveloped minds, a framework of regulation-orientated and
nameless reliance is constructed to ensure further generations will just accept it as normal. What were
once simple acts of altruism within a society to help those deemed needing within that group has now
morphed into a demand that brings fiscal benefits and attention that -back in the day, only a parent
could supply.
Simply put, we've been influenced to never leave the schoolyard.
RE: Bath time epiphany - BodhisattvaStyle - 11-29-2023
Good morning, GeauxHomeLittleD! It is literally freezing this morning and it's harshing my morning mellow. lol
"Machiavellianism"
I know this one well being raised by a dark triad personality (narcissistic psychopathic Machiavellianism) I know all about the victim mentality. It's a trait in every generation. Seems to be getting worse and worse and worse though.
I'm gen X with a gen Z son. He'll be 21 soon and he's a good dude. He works and does a good job. He struggled a little through school but nothing major. He's by no means perfect, but has a good heart and head on his shoulders. Very ethical young man. His mother and I did parent him though, both when we were together and even once we divorced. He was the one thing we didn't fight about and worked together pretty well with raising him and teaching him as he was growing up. We both had a different style and things we focused on were different but it was a nice balance in the end, even with a divorced home for him.
A lot of what is going on has a lot to do with the conditioning they are having to go through. It's not always the parents. Mostly, and on the grand scale I would agree. Now we have a full scale battle for the minds of our children and youth using techniques and technology that wasn't around back when you were growing up. There was way less influence on your generation, and still had victim mentality running rampant (I know this because i know a lot of my elders have that same mentality). What we are up against these days as far as protecting our children from evil is in a league that can't even compare to what it was like in the 40s 50s and 60s with raising and protecting your children from harmful influences. Now it is everywhere. Schools churches phones etc etc etc (we all know I could list bomb but I wont) are all weaponized and the target is the youth of the nation.
Trust me, I am very worried about what my son, nieces and nephews will go thru. They are all good young adults though. They were all parented, all gen z, none of them victim mentality. They are all go getters in their own ways, all very intelligent and wise for their ages, but what they are up against is a whole new terrifying monster and new ways of manipulation of the minds of the people that they are being set up for complete failure. Not that a lot of them aren't capable but the game is rigged.....and the opponent has new cheating tools and is now in full attack mode towards our youth.
All we can do is hope for a decent future for them. I'll be around a good while longer Lord willing, but I weep for my own future, and I am terrified for our children's future.
ETA: Sorry, came back to add this after my own little rant. Lol
I agree with having zero tolerance for the victim mentality. Those are the types of people that will suck the very soul from your body. It is always best to cut ties with those types when you can.
It's pure hell when you cant....
RE: Bath time epiphany - quintessentone - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 05:28 AM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: Some might say they are narcissists, sociopaths, bi-polar, borderline personality, etc. but when push comes to shove their identity at its core is that of the perpetual victim. I see it plain as day.
Well I know some that are bi-polar and from the life's experiences they have had and told me about, I'd say they were actually victims of others taking advantage of them and have developed coping mechanisms on their own, without any professional help to understand the abuse and those that abused them.
So, the custom-made coping mechanisms, in themselves, for me are the problem. As one woman who was abused in different ways by every man that came into her life, she is now overbearing and everything in life has to go her way, no matter how absurd, or there will be hell to pay.
I can understand this behaviour from her because all her power and self-esteem was taken away most of her life by others. While I can understand this need for her to manipulate others and for them to comply with her demands/needs? her blatant disregard and lack of respect for others' wants and needs seems to me that she is actually doing to others what was done to her.
I suppose what I am trying to say is that if we bother to figure out their toxic coping mechanisms for their past traumas and try to understand why and how they got to where they are, then maybe that helps us to move forward knowing that for many people nothing can be done to change who thought they had to become to survive. Maybe they are in a perpetual toxic survival mode.
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain. Chinese Proverb
RE: Bath time epiphany - CoyoteAngel - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 09:29 AM)Ninurta Wrote: You know, it kind of IS their parents' faults. Not for the reasons they blame their parents for, but because those parents were too lazy to parent them to begin with, too lazy to prepare them for life in the real world.
So their "victim mentality" CAN be set down at the feet of their parents - parents who took the time to have rug-rats, but then left them to their own devices in dealing with reality, rather than guiding and teaching them how it really is.
.
I have presented both my children with a reality that says, 'You better be able to take care of yourself, because nobody else is going to' They are both strong, capable and self-supporting. No student loans, no roomates, one has raised 2 kids themselves.
The daughter tho', she has that victim menatlity, even while she succeeds in taking care of herself, and has always always been her own worst enemy.
Parents are the front line, and should be held responsible to the job they did raising proper good people. But the social environment and keeping all those influences away from your kids and yet educating them about those influences so that they are run down by them when they turn 18 and go out into the world on their own. It's more than a full time job, and in most cases, even in intact 2 parent families, people have to work, sometiomes both, or 2 jobs. That requires 2 healthy strong people committed to being together to make it work. It's a TALL order these days.
Some people say social problems that don't involve me arent my business.... yeah they are, because they are the environment my family has to remain strong in.
RE: Bath time epiphany - BIAD - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 04:38 PM)CoyoteAngel Wrote: I have presented both my children with a reality that says, 'You better be able to take care of yourself, because nobody else is going to' They are both strong, capable and self-supporting. No student loans, no roomates, one has raised 2 kids themselves.
I think a shorter version of your wise words may be...
RE: Bath time epiphany - CoyoteAngel - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 09:29 AM)Ninurta Wrote: You know, it kind of IS their parents' faults. Not for the reasons they blame their parents for, but because those parents were too lazy to parent them to begin with, too lazy to prepare them for life in the real world.
So their "victim mentality" CAN be set down at the feet of their parents - parents who took the time to have rug-rats, but then left them to their own devices in dealing with reality, rather than guiding and teaching them how it really is.
.
I have presented both my children with a reality that says, 'You better be able to take care of yourself, because nobody else is going to' They are both strong, capable and self-supporting. No student loans, no roomates, one has raised 2 kids themselves.
The daughter tho', she has that victim menatlity, even while she succeeds in taking care of herself, and has always always been her own worst enemy.
Parents are the front line, and should be held responsible to the job they did raising proper good people. But the social environment and keeping all those influences away from your kids and yet educating them about those influences so that they are run down by them when they turn 18 and go out into the world on their own. It's more than a full time job, and in most cases, even in intact 2 parent families, people have to work, sometiomes both, or 2 jobs. That requires 2 healthy strong people committed to being together to make it work. It's a TALL order these days.
Some people say social problems that don't involve me arent my business.... yeah they are, because they are the environment my family has to remain strong in.
RE: Bath time epiphany - Snarl - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 09:29 AM)Ninurta Wrote: You know, it kind of IS their parents' faults. Not for the reasons they blame their parents for, but because those parents were too lazy to parent them to begin with, too lazy to prepare them for life in the real world.
So their "victim mentality" CAN be set down at the feet of their parents - parents who took the time to have rug-rats, but then left them to their own devices in dealing with reality, rather than guiding and teaching them how it really is.
.
As usual, your observation is spot-on.
I had a choice to face when my school daze ended: Join the Army and see the world ... or go to work. Going to work meant a life of drudgery in a bio-med lab or working the farm. Kind of a no-brainer ... even if I did go about it stoopidly.
Kids don't really face that choice these days. Parents aren't telling them, "The day you're 18 you're on your own, Kid!!" I heard those words my whole life. I knew what was coming and pretty much when.
Both of my kids effed-up their initial college chances. My son was creative about it and at least walked away with no debt. He enjoys his blue collar life (and there's nothing wrong with that). My daughter 'vacationed' in the dorms and is paying the price. Where most people started (back in our day) at 18, she's starting (in debt) at age 33. It sucks, but that's the way things in America are geared now. I hope she likes being the proverbial round peg in a round hole.
To the point of the thread: both of them understand the choices they've made along the paths of their lives have lead to outcomes ... same as everyone else. They don't complain.
OTOH
I've got a sister-in-law who was spoiled her whole live. She's in her mid-50s now. Her looks are gone. She's a lush. And now ... she's a perpetual victim who does her best to bring everyone down to her level of misery. She utterly ruined my wife's vacation with family. She jeopardized her niece's wedding (which was quite the International affair). She's been at this type of behavior for so long she's got it all down to a T.
A couple of years ago, she had an affair with another woman's husband. She expressed her pleasure in giving grief to the wife when she refused to dump her cheating spouse. What me and my wife both noted was that she saw no wrong in her role as a home wrecker. If there wasn't a law against it, I'd grab her by the shirt and beat her frikkin' teeth down her throat. I'm sorry, but that's about the only way these people are going to 'not do' what they've gotten real good at.
Maybe I should draw a hot bath too.
RE: Bath time epiphany - GeauxHomeLittleD - 11-29-2023
To all that have replied: Thank you!
While I agree that in some cases it can be laid at parents feet I have to ask myself what happened to parents that they either became too busy, too lazy or even too afraid to parent their own children. Going down that path leads me to memories of my own children growing up.
Both of my natural born children are physically disabled and one of them is also dyslexic. You could call me a hard ass because I never cut them any slack due to any of it as I knew it would not serve them well in the future to do so. They learned from the very beginning not to expect special treatment and that they needed to work extra hard to make it in life. I had to fight the school system every step of the way as they were damned and determined to turn my children into "victims".
I remember a few incidents that stick out most. When my oldest started school she got into a row with another child over a favored toy. Rather than disciplining her (stand in a corner, sit out recess, whatever) their reaction to this very first time of making trouble was to try to bully me into putting her on medication. They even explained to me that it was "no big deal" as over half of the children in her class were already on medication. Over HALF! In Pre-K! Of course I refused as the incident was just kids behaving like kids and had to threaten to involve the family lawyer to force them to have her sit out recess for a few days because according to them "that is too harsh"- but drugging them isn't. I followed up by popping in during recess time to assure it was done and there were no more problems after that. Also we found out that she had an extremely high IQ and was "gifted" which we wouldn't have found out had we drugged her up into a zombie.
When the youngest was in third grade and report cards came she was failing a few classes so I scheduled a meeting with her teachers. I was led to a room and sat in a chair in the center of the room surrounded by a circle of chairs filled by all of her teachers- not just the ones whose classes she was failing. The younger teachers did all the speaking and basically all ganged up and tried to intimidate me into putting her on medication- not for bad behavior as she was one of their best behaved students but because she wouldn't stay focused when it came to reading only. They insisted that I MUST put her on ADD/ADHD meds and that neglecting to do so was the equivalent of child abuse and one even threatened to call CPS if I refused. I told her to shut the fuck up (yes, I said that!) and asked the very quiet 2 older teachers what they thought- the answer they both gave is that she wasn't hyper in any way but that she might have a reading disability. It turned out that they were correct, after much testing and a pretty purple overlay for reading my child went from failing to making all A's with no drugs involved.
This was back in the 90s, I can only imagine the pressure and threats that parents receive today. I feel that many parents are AFRAID to properly parent their children. The schools push drugs where none are needed and threaten parents who refuse. I was that bitch who refused anyway and dared them to mess with my kids in that way but most were too afraid to stand up to the schools and drugged their kids rather than fight for them.
So yes, parents are at fault for that but at some point the children all grow into adults and must become responsible for their own actions. While how a child was raised may stick with them through life in some ways ultimately as adults we choose for ourselves. My lifelong BFF (may she rest in peace) was one of those parents who DID drug her children at the school's insistence. Her oldest is still on drugs (even though there is nothing wrong with him other than never being punished for wrong doings because "muh illness") but her middle child upon reaching high school informed his mother that he refused to take those drugs anymore and that there was nothing wrong with him and never had been- and he was correct! He is the most successful and well adjusted of her children and has always been my personal favorite. The youngest has been on drugs since before she was a year old and is a spoiled, entitled cunt that nobody can stand being around- and I don't fling the "C" word around loosely! Why in the Hell would doctors insist on drugging babies? And yet BFF was also threatened with CPS and having ALL of her children taken away if she did not comply. She wasn't as big of a bitch as me so she complied rather than risk it.
So we have responsible parents, schools, doctors and CPS for drugging the kids and convincing them they are victims but they are adults now. Just as all of us were "programmed" by our families and society in general eventually we grew up, went out on our own and began to experience life with new eyes. We learned that the things we were taught weren't necessarily correct and started determining what was right and wrong by our own life experiences. It is a necessary part of growing up, just like discovering that Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny were just our parents injecting a little magic into our lives. We must upon adulthood learn that our values, attitudes and actions as adults are purely our own responsibilities. If a 35 year old man commits armed robbery and kills several people in the process who should be held responsible? Should he be responsible for his actions or should he blame mommy and daddy for not giving him enough hugs as a child and they go to prison in his place?
Just something to contemplate. Peace!
RE: Bath time epiphany - quintessentone - 11-29-2023
We as parents can only do so much then it's up to them to adapt to their world, if they can. Not everyone can be painted with the same brush so while some can handle whatever is thrown at them and come out a Phoenix, others may have other issues that trample them down and without any real help out there in the real world, they remain in the smoldering ashes
Just my 2 sense worth.
RE: Bath time epiphany - GeauxHomeLittleD - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 05:37 PM)quintessentone Wrote: We as parents can only do so much then it's up to them to adapt to their world, if they can. Not everyone can be painted with the same brush so while some can handle whatever is thrown at them and come out a Phoenix, others may have other issues that trample them down and without any real help out there in the real world, they remain in the smoldering ashes
Just my 2 sense worth.
While I can definitely agree with that (surprised?) that doesn't really explain the vast number of "victims" that have taken over a large chunk of current society today. I have witnessed people who I have known for their entire lives who never had that mentality in the past jump on the bandwagon in the past few years. I believe the programming really began in earnest with the Millennials and has gone ballistic in recent years with older adults with attention seeking issues jumping into the fray for social media popularity (a different mental health pandemic that deserves its own thread). Everything under the sun is labeled as "trauma" or "abuse" and even a passing feeling of nervousness or sadness is now labeled as "anxiety" or "depression" and drugs are prescribed for it like candy. You don't even have to go to an actual doctor or therapist anymore there are apps for that! Just say what your Facebook friend tells you to say and you can brag on Instagram with pics of your new med bottles and announce your "mental illness" too so you can blame others for all of your shortcomings and get a dopamine burst from "likes" in the process! This is what is happening and is socially acceptable now.
RE: Bath time epiphany - Snarl - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 05:29 PM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: You could call me a hard ass because I never cut them any slack due to any of it as I knew it would not serve them well in the future to do so.
I would call you, "Tough as nails!!" and "Smart as a whip."
RE: Bath time epiphany - GeauxHomeLittleD - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 06:02 PM)Snarl Wrote:(11-29-2023, 05:29 PM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: You could call me a hard ass because I never cut them any slack due to any of it as I knew it would not serve them well in the future to do so.
I would call you, "Tough as nails!!" and "Smart as a whip."
I will take that but even with all my efforts upon entering adulthood and starting college the oldest started hanging out with new people and the victim mentality is absolutely contagious. She changed tremendously but now in her mid 30s with a teenaged daughter of her own is finally starting to get herself back together- though it took every single member of the family (except her younger sister who gives moral support only) cutting her off in order to rectify and begin changing her learned way of thinking. It has been extremely hard but we all had to stop helping her in any way- including making sure the grandgirl had everything she needed- and became a "sink or swim" situation that landed me in therapy for a time due to worry. But she stepped up her game, cut the losers out of her life. started getting healthy and now is doing tremendously better- though we still have very little contact as I fear a backslide into her old ways and refuse to present temptation. I stay in touch with the grandgirl though and she is much happier and has an actual normal life now. Let's hope it sticks!
RE: Bath time epiphany - quintessentone - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 06:01 PM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote:(11-29-2023, 05:37 PM)quintessentone Wrote: We as parents can only do so much then it's up to them to adapt to their world, if they can. Not everyone can be painted with the same brush so while some can handle whatever is thrown at them and come out a Phoenix, others may have other issues that trample them down and without any real help out there in the real world, they remain in the smoldering ashes
Just my 2 sense worth.
While I can definitely agree with that (surprised?) that doesn't really explain the vast number of "victims" that have taken over a large chunk of current society today. I have witnessed people who I have known for their entire lives who never had that mentality in the past jump on the bandwagon in the past few years. I believe the programming really began in earnest with the Millennials and has gone ballistic in recent years with older adults with attention seeking issues jumping into the fray for social media popularity (a different mental health pandemic that deserves its own thread). Everything under the sun is labeled as "trauma" or "abuse" and even a passing feeling of nervousness or sadness is now labeled as "anxiety" or "depression" and drugs are prescribed for it like candy. You don't even have to go to an actual doctor or therapist anymore there are apps for that! Just say what your Facebook friend tells you to say and you can brag on Instagram with pics of your new med bottles and announce your "mental illness" too so you can blame others for all of your shortcomings and get a dopamine burst from "likes" in the process! This is what is happening and is socially acceptable now.
The younger and upcoming generations are royally screwed and who knows what the toxins in the environment are doing to their bodies. Are they victims, I'd say 'yes' you bet they are victims of TPTB that don't give a damn about anyone else but themselves.
RE: Bath time epiphany - Freija - 11-29-2023
When I was 5 years old, my mother faced an illness with an if she was lucky, a 10-more-years-to-live prognosis so from a very young age I was groomed to be independent and self-sufficient. I was a latchkey kid from the 2nd grade on and faced with what psychologists call ”parentification” but in a more gentle and positive light that taught me about responsibility among other things. (like cooking and cleaning – LOL !)
Considering my own special needs as a child and the problems encountered as a result, on top of all this or combined with the rejection and isolation involved with my own crap, situations required me to grow up fast and exhibit a maturity beyond my years while never letting myself feel victimized or shorted by what would appear to many to be the loss of my childhood. It also helped me identify happiness even when surrounded by darkness and hard times which has been one of the keys to my survival. Even through the whole trans thing, that I saw as an unfortunate mistake, didn’t give me the “poor me’s” but it sure did piss me off and added more of a fighter aspect to my personality than that of a victim..
On one hand, all this toughened me up for the real world and experiences and lessons learned guided me through some pretty rough times with grit and determination I couldn’t have mustered otherwise but in others, it broke me in a way influencing several of my adult behaviors or patterns I’ve often wished were different but I’m not complaining and I certainly don’t and never have considered myself anyone’s bitch or a victim. Screw that!
What I see as the somewhat negative aspects from all this is at times I am too independent, too hard-headed and too comfortable living in isolation and solitude and I totally suck at maintaining friendships. I accept these attributes and at weeks from being 69 years old, don’t feel any desire to work on changing them.
With my own almost 50 year old daughter, perhaps not so much through challenges but by simple observation and emulation, she grew up to be a tough and self-determined, self-sufficient don’t take shit from anybody or life sort of person and I like to think I had some influence over her attitudes and personality but I think a lot of kids of boomer parents with trickle downs from even the generation before are for the most part, nothing like the Millennials or Gen-XYZ and I am also going to credit some of this from being from a pre-internet generation where victim and oppression points gain cred.
I also kind of think many with this victimized personality type have never really faced true hardship or challenges to shape their perspectives or were never taught or shown how to rise above?
RE: Bath time epiphany - Ninurta - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 05:29 PM)GeauxHomeLittleD Wrote: ...
While I agree that in some cases it can be laid at parents feet I have to ask myself what happened to parents that they either became too busy, too lazy or even too afraid to parent their own children. Going down that path leads me to memories of my own children growing up.
Parents have to fight their own conditioning. We have all, for millennia now, been conditioned to give a shit what other people think of us. That creates a pressure to conform to whatever society currently deems to be "normal", and a growing number of people are unable to break that conditioning.
That's how outsiders can force some folks to comply, for example by drugging out their kids.
I had the same struggles when my son was coming up. They called us in and tried to bully us into drugging him out. His ma was ready to buckle to the pressure, but I wasn't. Luckily, I had enough fortitude and "not-give-a-damned"-ness to override them all. I told them they could get their OWN kid's personalities out of a bottle if they liked, but they weren't going to do it to mine. They also threatened me with CPS, and that was the end of the conversation. I just matter of factly told them "well you've got it to do, then, and we're done here now - I don't suffer threats easily. This conversation is over." and walked out.
They never followed through with their threats, and his ma knew me well enough to know that I wasn't bluffing, and there'd be hell to pay if they tried it. So she didn't drug him up, either.
He never robbed liquor stores. He never bullied other kids. He's turned out to be an excellent person, even without getting drugged out. Matter of fact, he never developed a drug problem, either. He's a manager at Amazon now, owns his own home and land, and has done pretty well for himself - all without drugs. He's raising - so far - 3 kids of his own. All of that, and he's not yet 30. I've done a lot of wrong in my life, and made a lot of mistakes, but his upbringings are not among those.
Here's the thing about intelligent kids, like your daughter. They get bored with standard schooling. It doesn't challenge them enough. So they seek their own challenges as a part o growing up, and schools either misinterpret that or else they just are incapable of rising to the challenge. Either way, they try to drug kids out, especially the brighter ones, to attempt to drag them down to the level of the rest, down to a level where the educators don't have to rise to the challenge.
It then falls to the parents to provide intellectual challenges for such kids, and sadly many are just not up to snuff - their kids seem to be smarter than they are, and they just can't provide the intellectual stimulation the kids require. That isn't the parent's fault - they just aren't capable, and that not through any lack of effort. Everyone has their own skill set, and that just isn't i theirs. I'm not good at sports. Not my fault, just not in my skill set... so I leave that sort of thing to others.
The problem there is that, in the matter of educational challenge, the educational system is often not capable, either. So they trot out the pill bottle to cover their own inadequacies.
Quote:...
It is a necessary part of growing up, just like discovering that Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny were just our parents injecting a little magic into our lives.
...
Say it ain't so! You'll ruin every single Christmas movie, ever, for me with that kind of thinking!
Of course those are all real! If they weren't, my folks would have told me so!
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RE: Bath time epiphany - Ninurta - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 05:37 PM)quintessentone Wrote: We as parents can only do so much then it's up to them to adapt to their world, if they can. Not everyone can be painted with the same brush so while some can handle whatever is thrown at them and come out a Phoenix, others may have other issues that trample them down and without any real help out there in the real world, they remain in the smoldering ashes
Just my 2 sense worth.
That's true. Add to that the fact that some people are just "born bad", and nothing will get through to them. They will go their own way despite whatever upbringings can be brought to bear on them. Many years ago, my police instructor put it this way "There are just some people in this world that are junk yard dog mean. There's nothing to be done for it, they just have a basic defect somewhere, one that can't be fixed no matter what you try.". Now he said that in the context of criminality, but I think it can be fairly carried over into any other area of life as well. There are just some people that can be raised the best way available, and will still turn wrong, because it's built-in to them. It's not their parents' fault, it's not society's fault, it's no one's fault - they just have a bad core, and therefore nothing there to build on.
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RE: Bath time epiphany - Ninurta - 11-29-2023
(11-29-2023, 07:53 PM)Freija Wrote: ...
I also kind of think many with this victimized personality type have never really faced true hardship or challenges to shape their perspectives or were never taught or shown how to rise above?
This.
An inordinate amount of current teens and twenty-somethings have never know actual hardship. Don't get me wrong - there are those who have - but they are definitely not in the majority.
Modern youngsters, for the most part, have had life handed to them on a silver platter. That's our fault in the older generations - we had this crazy idea that our kids should be gifted with a better life, rather than having to do anything on their own to merit it. Every generation does that, but we had the technology to make it happen nearly effortlessly.
The net result is a generation, maybe two, who have never known actual hardship, an actual "rough life", and therefore have not had to learn, have not had to adjust, have not had to "adapt and overcome". So, what they believe is a "hard life" is what we, years ago, called "Thursday", and what our parents called "breakfast - the day's just startin' ".
I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw years ago. A girl was running across the living room screaming "It's broken! It's broken!" while holding her left arm out at arm's length with her right hand. Her dad, alarmed, asked "What? What is it she broke? Her arm? Her finger? Do we need to take her to the hospital?" and her mom replied nonchalantly "No. It's a fingernail. She broke a fingernail."
I never realized just how true that prophetic cartoon would come to be. It was funny back then. Not so funny now, watching it come to fruition.
It reminds me of the old saw that goes:
"Hard times make hard men.
Hard men make soft times.
Soft times make soft men.
Soft men make hard times."
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