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+--- Thread: Covid & The Smokers Paradox (/showthread.php?tid=1199)
Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Infolurker - 08-27-2023
I am going to transfer this here as this appears to be the last thread of mine to have survived on the topic. It appears there has been a purge of lots of my old threads.
https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1326579/pg1
Revisiting the Smokers Paradox as it is called. It is hard to get good information since "most" of the US studies counter the evidence that it exists in the first place. Early in the covid epidemic, it was noticed that "active smokers" were disproportionately under represented for contracting the disease and being hospitalized. Numerous studies in China, South Korea, France, India, and even the US confirm this (before the political US studies trying to cover this fact up).
The Japanese have been trying to find out why. They have some theories (listed below) that include ACE2 receptor protection and possibly radioactivity in tobacco could be blocking the Covid receptors themselves. Interesting information to say the least.
Has anyone else heard of any other theories and or studies / research into this?
Revisiting the Paradox of Smoking: Radioactivity in Tobacco Smoke or Suppressing the SARS-CoV-2 Receptor, Angiotensin-Converting Enzyme 2, via Aryl-Hydrocarbon Receptor Signal?
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/15593258221075111
Quote:Despite current controversies, some reports show a paradoxical mitigating effect associated with smoking in individuals with symptomatic COVID-19 compared to the general population. To explain the potential mechanisms behind the lower number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients, it has been hypothesized that cigarette smoking may reduce the odds of cytokine storm and related severe inflammatory responses through cholinergic-mediated anti-inflammatory mechanisms. Japanese scientists have recently identified a potential mechanism behind the lower numbers of COVID-19 cases amongst smokers compared to non-smokers. However, we believe that this mitigative effect may be due to the relatively high concentration of deposited energy of alpha particles emitted from naturally occurring radionuclides such as Po-210 in cigarette tobacco. Regarding COVID-19, other researchers and our team have previously addressed the anti-inflammatory and immune-modulating effects of low doses of ionizing radiation. MC-simulation using the Geant4 Monte Carlo toolkit shows that the radiation dose absorbed in a spherical cell with a radius of .9 μm for a single 5.5 MeV alpha particle is about 5.1 Gy. This energy deposition may trigger both anti-inflammatory and anti-thrombotic effects which paradoxically lower the risk of hospitalization due to COVID-19 in smokers.
The Japanese want to know why and have been / were running research:
Drugs that mimic effects of cigarette smoke reduce SARS-CoV-2's ability to enter cell
https://www.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/en/news/66516
Quote:A team of Japanese scientists demonstrates that treatment with AHR agonists decreases expression of ACE2 via AHR activation, resulting in suppression of COVID-19.
Researchers have identified two drugs that mimic the effect of chemicals in cigarette smoke to bind to a receptor in mammalian cells that inhibits production of ACE2 proteins, a process that appears to reduce the ability of the SARS-CoV-2 virus to enter the cell.
The Paradox of the Low Prevalence of Current Smokers Among COVID-19 Patients Hospitalized in Nonintensive Care Wards: Results From an Italian Multicenter Case-Control Study
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32964233/
Quote:Results: The percentages of current smokers (4.1% vs 16%, p = .00003) and never smokers (71.6% vs 56.8%, p = .0014) were significantly different between COVID-19 and non-COVID 19 patients. COVID-19 patients had lower mean age (69.5 vs 74.2 years, p = .00085) and were more frequently males (59.2% vs 44%, p = .0011). In the logistic regression analysis, current smokers were significantly less likely to be hospitalized for COVID-19 compared with nonsmokers (odds ratio = 0.23; 95% confidence interval, 0.11-0.48, p < .001), even after adjusting for age and gender (odds ratio = 0.14; 95% confidence interval, 0.06-0.31, p < .001).
Conclusions: We reported an unexpectedly low prevalence of current smokers among COVID-19 patients hospitalized in nonintensive care wards. The meaning of these preliminary findings, which are in line with those currently emerging in literature, is unclear; they need to be confirmed by larger studies.
Implications: An unexpectedly low prevalence of current smokers among patients hospitalized for COVID-19 in some Italian nonintensive care wards is reported. This finding could be a stimulus for the generation of novel hypotheses on individual predisposition and possible strategies for reducing the risk of infection from SARS-CoV-2 and needs to be confirmed by further larger studies designed with adequate methodology.
The bizzare phenomenon of smokers’ paradox in the immediate outcome post acute myocardial infarction: an insight into the Malaysian National Cardiovascular Database-Acute Coronary Syndrome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4846599/
Conclusion
Smoking seems to be associated with a favourable outcome post myocardial infarction. The phenomenon of ‘smoker’s paradox’ is in fact a reality in our patients population. The definitive explanation for this unexpected protective effect of smoking remains unclear.
Could coffee offer protection from catching COVID-19?
https://phys.org/news/2022-11-coffee-covid-.html
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Ninurta - 08-28-2023
Doesn't surprise me.
Tobacco was a "medicine" plant to Indians for a couple thousand years before white people discovered it. Early on, European physicians were recommending it medicinally to "purge superfluous humours", but then King James - the same one that authorized his very own Bible - came out with his "noxious weed" lunacy, and everyone suddenly re-thought it. I mean, who want to piss off a king? So, from then on, it started getting a bad rap.
Now, in the modern day and age, commercial tobacco has a lot of problems. First, it's a different, weaker species. Second, they put all kinds of chemical crap in smoking tobacco now, from flavorings to burning agents to keep it lit, and a bunch of other crap. That doesn't eliminate the "good" medicinal qualities, but it does add a crap ton of bad qualities to overshadow them.
Another problem in the modern world is over-use, compounding the bad effects from the chemicals by flooding your body with them. Smoking a couple packs a day of cigarettes is overusing it, and on top of that you're not just getting overdosed on the bad chemicals mixed in to the commercial tobacco, you're also breathing whatever chemicals are in the paper wrapper. On the other hand, home-grown tobacco, without the chemical additives, and smoked from a pipe or something like that, has a whole different character.
I grow the "strong" tobacco, also called "sacred tobacco", "native tobacco,and in some cases "Aztec tobacco", which some tribes call "little tobacco" because the plant is smaller. A pipe of that every so often has a different effect, and even a different taste. I've noticed that after a pipe of it, my lungs get cleared out and I can breathe easier. Same thing happens if I eat hot peppers, but we're talking tobacco here. The plant is smaller, and I don't grow all that much of it, so over-use is not a problem if I plan on still having any left by the time next harvest rolls around. Just a pipe full every so often will do ya. A SMALL pipe. A regular pipe full is enough to make you woozy and give you a feeling of leaving your body. I reckon that's why Indian medicine men were so fond of it!
But this does not surprise me, at all. It's just a discovery of another - previously unknown - medicinal quality of tobacco!
.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - kdog - 08-28-2023
I quit smoking my clove cigarettes a year and a half ago, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kretek but continue taking my 2 mg nicotine lozenges multiple times a day. My wife smokes a pack of marlboros ultra lights a day. Every other month we acquire some cannabis to smoke.
I can't remember the last time we got sick at all from anything.
Maybe, like everything else they tell that can kill you, helps you.
BTW I smoked Djarm Blacks for 25 years. Started in my early 30's and quit a year or so ago.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - dbcowboy - 08-29-2023
Entirely anecdotal but at the height of covid, I asked the respiratory dept director how many smokers were currently hospitalized.
He said, "None, don't quit."
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Michigan Swamp Buck - 08-29-2023
You'll find this in the second post of the page linked below . . .
Biological - SARS-CoV-2 - Medical Treatments
It was posted in spring of 2021
Quote:Subject: Although not technically a medical treatment, nicotine and menthol could possibly be used to treat COVID-19. At a molecular level, nicotine may help prevent a cytokine storm from COVID-19 and menthol may have a synergistic relationship with nicotine that boosts this effect. Below is information from the NIH on nicotine and menthol . . .
Notes: It looks like the NIH knows all about the beneficial effects of nicotine and menthol when treating COVID. The NIH knows that nicotine can reduce a cytokine storm and menthol can open up the airways, reduce pain and is toxic to cancer cells. They know tobacco contains a potent anti-viral agent that works against HIV and SARS. It seems that menthol cigarettes may be healthier than regular tobacco cigarettes and may have beneficial effects as a COVID treatment.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Chiefsmom - 08-30-2023
(08-29-2023, 12:48 AM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: You'll find this in the second post of the page linked below . . .Huh.
Biological - SARS-CoV-2 - Medical Treatments
It was posted in spring of 2021
Quote:Subject: Although not technically a medical treatment, nicotine and menthol could possibly be used to treat COVID-19. At a molecular level, nicotine may help prevent a cytokine storm from COVID-19 and menthol may have a synergistic relationship with nicotine that boosts this effect. Below is information from the NIH on nicotine and menthol . . .
Notes: It looks like the NIH knows all about the beneficial effects of nicotine and menthol when treating COVID. The NIH knows that nicotine can reduce a cytokine storm and menthol can open up the airways, reduce pain and is toxic to cancer cells. They know tobacco contains a potent anti-viral agent that works against HIV and SARS. It seems that menthol cigarettes may be healthier than regular tobacco cigarettes and may have beneficial effects as a COVID treatment.
Wonder if that has anything to do with the FDA trying to ban menthol cigarettes?
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Michigan Swamp Buck - 09-01-2023
(08-30-2023, 02:54 PM)Chiefsmom Wrote:(08-29-2023, 12:48 AM)Michigan Swamp Buck Wrote: You'll find this in the second post of the page linked below . . .Huh.
Biological - SARS-CoV-2 - Medical Treatments
It was posted in spring of 2021
Quote:Subject: Although not technically a medical treatment, nicotine and menthol could possibly be used to treat COVID-19. At a molecular level, nicotine may help prevent a cytokine storm from COVID-19 and menthol may have a synergistic relationship with nicotine that boosts this effect. Below is information from the NIH on nicotine and menthol . . .
Notes: It looks like the NIH knows all about the beneficial effects of nicotine and menthol when treating COVID. The NIH knows that nicotine can reduce a cytokine storm and menthol can open up the airways, reduce pain and is toxic to cancer cells. They know tobacco contains a potent anti-viral agent that works against HIV and SARS. It seems that menthol cigarettes may be healthier than regular tobacco cigarettes and may have beneficial effects as a COVID treatment.
Wonder if that has anything to do with the FDA trying to ban menthol cigarettes?
Absolutely my dear.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - p358 - 09-01-2023
(08-28-2023, 05:34 AM)Ninurta Wrote: Doesn't surprise me.
Now, in the modern day and age, commercial tobacco has a lot of problems. First, it's a different, weaker species. Second, they put all kinds of chemical crap in smoking tobacco now, from flavorings to burning agents to keep it lit, and a bunch of other crap. That doesn't eliminate the "good" medicinal qualities, but it does add a crap ton of bad qualities to overshadow them.
When the big tobacco industry is growing tobacco, the plants are sprayed with various agents to control insect pests and mold and such like.
It is the chemicals in these sprays that cause cancer and such like. That is why in many countries ( Australia is one) it is illegal to grow this plant in your back yard, all under the guise of taxes.
Now the truth is coming out a little bit at a time.
P
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - BIAD - 09-01-2023
Not smoker-related, but worth a listen to. Dr Campbell is straining at the leash to tell you something
we've suspected all along.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Ninurta - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 05:27 AM)p358 Wrote: When the big tobacco industry is growing tobacco, the plants are sprayed with various agents to control insect pests and mold and such like.
It is the chemicals in these sprays that cause cancer and such like. That is why in many countries ( Australia is one) it is illegal to grow this plant in your back yard, all under the guise of taxes.
Now the truth is coming out a little bit at a time.
P
I don't have much trouble from insect pests with this variety of tobacco I'm growing now - it's got between 3 and 9 times the nicotine of commercial tobacco, and nicotine is one of the things they make bug sprays out of - and so no real need to spray it. Some folks make bug juice FROM it. Blue mold and tobacco mosaic virus are threats, but not bugs.
Back when commercial tobacco was king around here, about the only bugs that would attack it were horn-worms. We never sprayed for them, but instead would go through the fields every so often and hunt them down, picking them off by hand. Then the government came in, did away with "tobacco allotments" and bought those allotments out from the farmers, and folks stopped growing tobacco here. A couple years ago, I took a drive through the old haunts that I frequented, and saw no tobacco growing there at all - all of the former tobacco fields are now planted in corn, if they are planted in anything at all.
Tobacco companies now contract with a very few farmers to grow larger commerical fields, independent of the controls that the allotments provided, and I'm sure those contracts specify what chemicals have to be sprayed on the tobacco to keep it looking pretty for the market. I'm not sure the commercial tobacco folks are smoking now even has the same mix of nasties it had just 20 years ago, now that tobacco companies have been given the green light to control the mix.
It's a damned shame that Australians have to put up with government interference in a private grow. We have no such interference here now. In the US, anyone can grow it, BUT since the allotments went away, the price bottomed out and it's not a viable enterprise to grow it commercially unless you already have a contract with a tobacco company., so all of it grown by small-holders is just for personal use, like the tobacco I grow. But it ain't illegal - yet.
Australia has it's own native species of tobacco that grows wild. Pretty rough stuff, from what I'm told. I've always wondered just how Australia got it's own native species considering that tobacco all originated in South America. it was already growing there when Captain Cook first graced Australian shores, and it's a curiosity just how that happened - it had already been growing there long enough to differentiate itself from any other tobacco species.
.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Ninurta - 09-01-2023
(09-01-2023, 11:01 AM)BIAD Wrote: Not smoker-related, but worth a listen to. Dr Campbell is straining at the leash to tell you something
we've suspected all along.
Anecdotal evidence in my case supports that study.
I have a natural genetic immunity conferred upon me by some Neanderthal ancestor 50,000 years ago or so, which has been handed down through all those generations to me. Never vaccinated, but genetically 80% less likely to get a severe case, thanks to that ancient hapless Neanderthal.
Compounding that, I've had the coof twice, but one time shouldn't count at all, as it was entirely asymptomatic, and would have gone undetected if not for a covid test that came back positive. No symptoms at all. The other case was slightly symptomatic, much like a mild cold for about 24 hours before the immune system I've been blessed with kicked it's ass. However, that infection - and fighting it off - seems to have conferred an additional layer of immunity to me. It seems to me that the original, genetic immunity provided the tools to fight it off, and the infection gave additional tools, provided a target for the natural immunity and allowed it to develop stronger defenses.
On top of that, I both smoke and vape, nicotine and menthol in both cases. There is a good chance, according to this study, that the smoking is the rivets in to covid armor I've been given naturally - it blocks infection when the virus is present, but the mere presence of the virus knocking at the doors of my cells rings the alarm to kick the natural immunity into gear to rid my body of the interloping virus, preventing the cytokine storm and avoiding symptoms, much less hospitalizations.
That's what I'm thinking, anyhow. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!
.
RE: Covid & The Smokers Paradox - Infolurker - 09-04-2023
I am not sure how neither my wife nor I have ever acquired it, especially with our germ factory snotting and choking everywhere grandkids over every weekend.
Either it is the smoking or by some strange chance the J&J vaccine we got REALLY freeking worked.